crew Why is it so difficult to find collaborators for a project?

Nate North

Nate North

I have to assume that I'm not the only one on an independent film form that wants to make an independent film. If you've ever tried making one, you know that it's nearly impossible to have any type of success without a larger group involved. My question is, why are people uninterested in joining teams or groups? As a lone individual, your fate is sealed, if 1000 of us worked together, there is no question we'd get something published. I bought a product yesterday. 12 people got together and worked full time on it for 3 years. It was great, I paid full price for it. They now have funding for the next product, and everyone is happy and headed for a profitable carreer in the industry.

Here's the clip I watched about their team and project. It's just a simple top down shooter, innovation level 0. It was great, no issues, everyone is happy.


I live in a small town, and neighborhood garage bands are common. People get together and practice for years, travelling 50 miles to a practice spot, to split up 200 dollars a gig, once they are good enough. They spend thousands each on equipment, and hundreds of hours just getting to that point, and everyone shows up for that.

If people are as passionate about making film as they say they are, why is the willingness to team up and commit so fractional in filmmaking, compared to music, which is arguably hundreds of times easier to succeed at (at least in terms of getting a set written and playing it for an audience)? Do you think it would be strange to watch 6 people collaborate and spend for years to build a lemonade stand, and then go over to a skyscraper construction forum and find everyone trying to do it solo with no money?
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
The term pipeline can be used in any industry. From getting from point A to point Z and all the other letters are the "pipes."

It's not used much in filmmaking unless someone says they have a couple films "in the pipeline."

OF COURSE you can google up a filmmaking pipeline, you can probably google up a pipeline for a bagel chain, or a hat maker as well. That doesn't mean your vision here is any clearer.

However pipeline does seem to be used more in animation. And you are more familiar with that.

3d-pipe-line.jpg
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You're trying really hard to impress. You claim you're an accomplished professional, but can't put thgether a team. Doesn't pass the sniff test.

As for proof, I don't care whether you believe me or not. You're a punk who's having troubles getting a project off the ground. Maybe if you spent less time trying to convince us of your skills, you wouldn't be having your troubles.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
:secret: You need to get outside and get some fresh air, Nate.

Nate North said:
On the other hand, I have seen absolutely none of your work. You've seen me shooting on a Red Epic, on an 18 foot crane, with a crew, at my old mansion, and I've seen you........ talk.
Click to expand...

Nobody here is interviewing for a job with your company, so nobody here is under any obligation to justify their credentials. But that's beside the point anyhow: your target audience - whether for your funding pitch, or for the SavePoint end product - is the whole of humanity, and it doesn't matter one iota whether we've seen you up a crane or down a hole or swinging through the jungle. The only thing that matters is whether we "get it" - regardless of our qualifications and expertise in your domain.

I can probably match you step-for-step in professional qualifications and experience and reputation and financial success or failure; but that's not going to get the piece of machinery currently stuck in a lane at the side of my house out on to the road. As chance would have it, I was woken up this morning by an acquaintance asking if he could drop in for a cup of tea as he'd been driving for 5 hours and happened to be within 10 minutes of where I live. By most measures he wouldn't be on the same intellectual plane as me (or you) but I showed him my piece of immovable equipment and immediately he was able to suggest a way of using the hydrostatic differential transmission (👈 see what I did there? :cool:) to diagnose and possibly treat the problem.

Does it matter how the machine ended up where it is? No. Does it matter what I want to do with it afterwards? No. Does it matter how much it cost to buy, or how much it might cost to repair if the problem isn't what he thinks? No. Does it matter that I can excel in other areas, where he would be completely incompetent? No. How that machine fits into my complex "globality" is entirely independent of what he can tell me about one part of it, and neither does it matter that he's never demonstrated his familiarity with that kind of machine before. In fact, I know he's never worked on one, ever; but I do know just enough about the inner workings of a hydraulic transmission to know that his suggested diagnosis and solution makes sense. It's now up to me to act on his advice, accepting full responsibility for the choices I make. No insults necessary.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sory Nathe that I stop't communication on Save Point. I should have been honest and direct to you. I did not understand what save point is, nor do I understand it now. I had the feeling that it would cost me a lot of time without payoff... Its much easier for me to make contact with inditalkers outside of save point or film makers in Nederland....and that will have payoff. For instance.... Next week I'm gonna collaborate with the team of Walter B. If I really like somebody..... and his work I want to work with them....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Feutus Lapdance said:
Sory Nathe that I stop't communication on Save Point. I should have been honest and direct to you. I did not understand what save point is, nor do I understand it now. I had the feeling that it would cost me a lot of time without payoff... Its much easier for me to make contact with inditalkers outside of save point or film makers in Nederland....and that will have payoff. For instance.... Next week I'm gonna collaborate with the team of Walter B. If I really like somebody..... and his work I want to work with them....
Click to expand...
It's no problem, you had never expressed any interest in joining, so no apology is necessary. I think there was a misunderstanding that the SP discord channel was an indietalk chatroom. Indietalk is an Indietalk chatroom, and while there are some connections because of some people from here being there, It's never been advertised as an alternative to this forum. As far as whether or not SP will have a payoff, I think it's a bit too early to say. I'm thinking this is about a 5 year project, and I think we talked for about a half hour. As far as working with people you like, some people really like me, and some people really don't. I'm often referred to as a polarizing figure, and I don't expect or need everyone to like me. I wish you the best with your endeavors.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
CelticRambler said:
:secret: You need to get outside and get some fresh air, Nate.



Nobody here is interviewing for a job with your company, so nobody here is under any obligation to justify their credentials. But that's beside the point anyhow: your target audience - whether for your funding pitch, or for the SavePoint end product - is the whole of humanity, and it doesn't matter one iota whether we've seen you up a crane or down a hole or swinging through the jungle. The only thing that matters is whether we "get it" - regardless of our qualifications and expertise in your domain.

I can probably match you step-for-step in professional qualifications and experience and reputation and financial success or failure; but that's not going to get the piece of machinery currently stuck in a lane at the side of my house out on to the road. As chance would have it, I was woken up this morning by an acquaintance asking if he could drop in for a cup of tea as he'd been driving for 5 hours and happened to be within 10 minutes of where I live. By most measures he wouldn't be on the same intellectual plane as me (or you) but I showed him my piece of immovable equipment and immediately he was able to suggest a way of using the hydrostatic differential transmission (👈 see what I did there? :cool:) to diagnose and possibly treat the problem.

Does it matter how the machine ended up where it is? No. Does it matter what I want to do with it afterwards? No. Does it matter how much it cost to buy, or how much it might cost to repair if the problem isn't what he thinks? No. Does it matter that I can excel in other areas, where he would be completely incompetent? No. How that machine fits into my complex "globality" is entirely independent of what he can tell me about one part of it, and neither does it matter that he's never demonstrated his familiarity with that kind of machine before. In fact, I know he's never worked on one, ever; but I do know just enough about the inner workings of a hydraulic transmission to know that his suggested diagnosis and solution makes sense. It's now up to me to act on his advice, accepting full responsibility for the choices I make. No insults necessary.
Click to expand...
Interesting example. and yes, I do see what you did there. I think there may have been a misunderstanding here as well. I was replying specifically to Sweetie, and I don't have any issue with you, he has repeatedly insinuated malice and criminal activity on my part, without so much as a basic understanding of what I'm doing. In a world so egocentric that people without cars would run onto a racetrack to advise a formula 1 champion to "turn the wheel better" I do sometimes run a spot check to determine whether a particular advisor has any basis for their advice. In addition sweetie had been repeatedly insulting to me, and regardless of your explanation, I feel he has little to nothing to offer. The most common sign of intelligence is curiosity, the most common sign of stupidity is fear and suspicion. When a person is derogatory to me based on fear and suspicion, I don't really respect that. If you think every person in this world is intelligent, you haven't been paying attention to human history, or even the present.

Pull your indy car up next to mine and yell "you need to feather the brakes" ok, I'm cool with that. When a guy on a bicycle yells out "you have a flat tire" I'm cool with that, sometimes you don't need to be an expert. Accusing a stranger of a half dozen things, with no evidence other than that you don't understand them, seems to me like something else entirely. Sweetie and I have now both insulted each other. With all things being equal there, I have to say that I think my reply was funnier, though, to be fair, I got a very good laugh out of being called a "Punk", seriously, I was howling with laughter for an hour.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
@indietalk

I tried your suggestion. and asked some of the members of my crew to explain the project back to me. They nailed it. This thread had eroded my confidence a bit, and I honestly wasn't expecting them to do as well as they did. The one thing the seemed confused about was the length of the game. It's life, It's a story about a single human life, and it ends when you die......... or does it?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You see?! Game. Lives. This is language we understand! Your team gets it, they are working on a game with lives. They get it because they are doing the work and not basing it on your buzzwordy promo. Here, you've never definitively called it a game except to say you were trying to not call it a game because it was something different; an animation pipeline to an interactive broadcast quality show. No. GAME! That's all we've been asking here. Of course it may be MORE and something new, it may create jobs, you may learn, but... GAME! Thank you team, you solved the... puzzle! 😁
Scoopicman said:
People like succinct and defined, like a movie log line. You need to be able to say it in one sentence:
Click to expand...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
indietalk said:
You see?! Game. Lives. This is language we understand! Your team gets it, they are working on a game with lives. They get it because they are doing the work and not basing it on your buzzwordy promo. Here, you've never definitively called it a game except to say you were trying to not call it a game because it was something different; an animation pipeline to an interactive broadcast quality show. No. GAME! That's all we've been asking here. Of course it may be MORE and something new, it may create jobs, you may learn, but... GAME! Thank you team, you solved the... puzzle! 😁
Click to expand...
There is a clip that I show people sometimes that sums it up quite well, I just haven't been posting it because I thought I posted it before. But this, right here, is what Save Point is, on the consumer end of the experience.


It really is simple for a player of the game. You are an average person, and you live your life. It's a cartoon, and you make choices about how you live your life. I probably did explain it poorly, in the 20/20 of hindsight, because A: I've been talking to corporate people for a decade, and picked up a lot of their dialect, and B: because the back end execution of this thing is monsterously complicated, and it's a lot for me to think about. Simplifying that construction part and presenting it is another mental task on top of something so difficult it's had me spinning in my tracks for months. Anyway, sorry if I've occasionally been a bit defensive about it. I'm just stressed out. I stopped and took a breath for a couple of days, and I think I came back with a clearer head. I guess this is where I admit that Celtic was right.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
The thing is if you abandon the word that is the very foundation of your product you confuse everybody. Elon Musk still sells a car. Not an electric robotic futuristic transport apparatus.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Much! Want proof? I actually get the "Save Point" name now. The pivotal point in the game where you were able to continue on because you were able to cheat death. That is your Save Point.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Nate North said:
Ok, it's a Game you play on YouTube where you live an entire life and almost anything can happen because you found a way to cheat death. Is that better?
Click to expand...
Nate, this is so much clearer and better I have to ask... why did it take so long to get to this description? I get that you are also trying to build Save Point using a different model for production, but couldn't that also be simplified into something like "I'm looking for people to help build this game. This will be done as a collaborative. By contributing your work, you will be able to use Save Point assets in your own projects"? There sure was a lot of wrangling about the production model before there was a clear description of the product. Continuing to use Elon Musk: his end goal is to rid the world of carbon-based power, but he understands it's easier to say "electric car" to people, even though his aims are much broader and more profound.

Is there a reason you've been uncomfortable just saying "it's a game"?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It's funny because you posted in my band thread about "joining," and I was like huh? Now that I read this description, I actually have a song called Killproof and the chorus is "You can't kill me, I'm already dead... but I'm still breathing." Not sure if it would work in any way but the words seem to fit. So you see when you explain it, people know what they can offer, or not. Instead of trying to understand what you want.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
indietalk said:
Much! Want proof? I actually get the "Save Point" name now. The pivotal point in the game where you were able to continue on because you were able to cheat death. That is your Save Point.
Click to expand...

You carry it with you, or at least that's always been the plan. I've thought recently about a more interesting way to include it, but that's for another discussion.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
IvonV said:
Is there a reason you've been uncomfortable just saying "it's a game"?
Click to expand...
interesting analogy.

The reason I have probably had difficulty simply calling it a game is because I'm trying to create something different and unique, and I feel like that very broad term will have people thinking I am making something where a guy jumps over barrels or shoots a gun.

It's just how my mind works. Lets say I called someone to pick me up at LAX and they said, we will have "transportation" available. I instantly assume they mean some kind of car, maybe a 2008 Ford Taurus, but when I show up, it's that giant speaker car from Mad Max with the flamethrower guitar guy. I'd be thinking to myself, I wish that they had described this a little better, this is not exactly what I was expecting.

1628622004866.png



Another issue is that I'm trying to market 3 things at once, and I need to stop doing that. There's a tech side, a collective side, and the product, and I should have realized earlier that all 3 won't fit neatly into one description.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I don't think anybody in this thread knew it was a game you play on YT. And stop underestimating people. Then, you overcomplicate. Your last description said it all! And no, we did not imagine it was Donkey Kong Jr! It actually sounded exciting and new.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
On the topic of generating confusion, I want to address the elephant in the room.

There's a guy named Dr Sasquatch that keeps trying to sell me bars of soap on the internet.

A sasquatch is a giant hair covered ape man right?

Wouldn't one of those need to use shampoo as opposed to soap?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top