Noob Indie Filmmaker making some life-critical decisions now

TruEsTaR

TruEsTaR

Hey all! I'm new to the site. Turned 21 years old last April.
Basically, I knew I wanted to dedicate the rest of my life to film when I was fourteen and I watched "Taxi Driver" for the first time. After that, I was obsessed..... A buddy told me to watch "Vertigo" and it swept me away. I saw "Star Wars", "Shawshank Redemption", and "Back to the Future" the following year. I bought a Super8 video camera at 15, but it was actually stolen from me at school.

I graduated high school in 07 and went to Toledo University for two years. I was meant to study film, but I didn't learn a thing aside from one great teacher I had who taught me about film theory. I dropped out the second semester of my sophomore year at age 20 so I could work for a year and study film on my own.

Since then I've watched thousands of classics, and some of the worst movies ever made. I studied everything about them. The lighting, cinematography, the script, editing, acting. Some of my favorite films include 8 1/2, The 400 Blows, The Red Shoes, The Conformist, La Strada, Synecdoche, New York, Ikiru, Band of Outsiders, Apocalypse Now, and Man with the Movie Camera.

Let me also throw in here that acting always interested me as well, I just don't have much training aside from a few college classes, writing a play for my class to perform in front of high schoolers in English class in college and being the lead, Being "Jesus" for my church when I was fourteen, and acting in a few high school plays.

I attended Dov S-S Simens "Two Day Film School" in Chicago last year from money that I had saved up, and he taught me a plethora of information. The only thing he didn't teach us was how to get investors, especially at the tender age of twenty-one years old.

After that, I purchased any book on screenwriting I could get my hand on. Mckee's "Story", The Screenwriting Bible, Save the Cat, The Syd Field books, and many others.... you get the idea.

I also made myself a promise that I would read a new screenplay, good or bad, every single day.

Recently, I took the cash I had saved up and bought an 27' IMAC and a Panasonic dvx100b video camera. I intend on teaching myself "Final Cut Pro", and I'm also getting very familiar with "Final Draft 8" because of the free trial.

I've lived in a small town in Ohio most of my life, and there isn't any jobs left here. My parents wanted me to be a lawyer or doctor, but I ignored them and I'm chasing my dream instead.

I honestly don't have the cash to go to film school, or a college like USC or UCLA. Nor do I think it would be completely necessary....

The dilemma I'm in right now is the fact that I'm 21, and I'm not getting any younger.... I'm stuck in this small town with all my friends gone or off at college, and all the jobs in Ohio are in the big cities. I don't know what decision to make, and no one around me could offer any type of guidance. I've been thinking about what to do for a year now....

Do I A). Join the military and try to get a job in film, save up money, and then afterwards make my first low-budget feature at 25-26ish?
B.) Try to get a job as a PA in Michigan, California, or New York and work my way up from the bottom in the next 4-5 years.
C.) Look for a mentor or an internship that will either pay nothing or very little so I can gain some valuable experience.
D.) Spend the next two years of my life working as a bartender, make short films and write screenplays on the side hoping that I sell one (It could take three months, one year, ten years, twenty years, thirty years, or it could never happen with selling a screenplay, you just never know....)
E.) Go back to a community college and finish up my associates and try to get my free ride scholarship back (it's only for schools in ohio.) Then either attend Ohio U, Cincinnati, or Bowling Green (Not going to happen), and finish up a degree. (I realize degrees are very helpful in many fields, but a guy who's worked in the industry 30 years told me degrees don't mean anything to filmmaking, it's all about experience and talent....)

I currently have about $3,000 left saved up, and I'm contemplating going to Mckee's "Story" seminar in New York on October 14, 15, 16, and 17th and staying with my buddy who recently moved down there. It would probably cost $1000 all together to do that....

My main thing is that I feel I have to relocate and leave my moms house (I've been here a year and I can't take it anymore).

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Nino
 
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From a guy in the same situation although im now 26, so i am definitely not getting any younger.....

i would say get a job that gives you a stable income but also allows you to follow your passion around it, you have the camera and the editing software, just get out there, practice practice practice....

you can read as many books as you like or watch as many films, but you learn the most from doing and at first failing generally, some of my first things i shot on film, i look back and am truly embarrassed, but you know what everytime i got my camera out and shot something, i learned something new and i am still learning.

I would say instead of reading a screenplay everyday how about for a while try and film something new everyday... even if its the iconic paper bag floating in the wind ala American Beauty.

You are doing the right things, the first stride is always the longest!!
 
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Welcome to indietalk.

My advice is to STOP taking classes and start making movies. Just
short films with whatever video camera, crew and actors you can
find. The camera doesn’t have to be good the script doesn’t have
to be good the actors don’t need to be good and the crew doesn’t
need to be experienced. What you need to do now is to make movies.

TruEsTaR said:
Do I A). Join the military and try to get a job in film, save up money, and then afterwards make my first low-budget feature at 25-26ish?
Click to expand...
An excellent idea. Any experience is good experience.
TruEsTaR said:
B.) Try to get a job as a PA in Michigan, California, or New York and work my way up from the bottom in the next 4-5 years.
Click to expand...
Another excellent idea. Many directors have gone this route.
TruEsTaR said:
C.) Look for a mentor or an internship that will either pay nothing or very little so I can gain some valuable experience.
Click to expand...
I’m liking the pattern here. This is a great way to get some much
needed experience.
TruEsTaR said:
D.) Spend the next two years of my life working as a bartender, make short films and write screenplays on the side hoping that I sell one (It could take three months, one year, ten years, twenty years, thirty years, or it could never happen with selling a screenplay, you just never know....)
Click to expand...
Another realistic choice. Making short films has launched many
careers. And you’re right, it could take a very short time or it
could never happen. The fact is no matter what choice you make at
this stage the outcome could be a career in a short time, in a few
years or never.
TruEsTaR said:
E.) Go back to a community college and finish up my associates and try to get my free ride scholarship back (it's only for schools in ohio.) Then either attend Ohio U, Cincinnati, or Bowling Green (Not going to happen), and finish up a degree. (I realize degrees are very helpful in many fields, but a guy who's worked in the industry 30 years told me degrees don't mean anything to filmmaking, it's all about experience and talent....)
Click to expand...
The guy told you the truth. A degree means almost nothing in
filmmaking. A director with several award winning short films and
no degree has an advantage over a director with a degree and no
award winning films.

But only YOU know if college is what will motivate you. Some
people feel going to college (any college) is a good thing. I
don’t. But only based on my experience. People who went to college
or film school have a different perspective. Both are realistic
and both can lead to a career in film.
TruEsTaR said:
My main thing is that I feel I have to relocate and leave my moms house (I've been here a year and I can't take it anymore).
Click to expand...
Ya know, at some point we ALL leave the homestead to pursue our
career. Being in a city where there is a lot of film production
increases the chances that you will get jobs and meet people in
the industry.

TruEsTaR said:
I attended Dov S-S Simens "Two Day Film School" in Chicago last year from money that I had saved up, and he taught me a plethora of information. The only thing he didn't teach us was how to get investors, especially at the tender age of twenty-one years old.
Click to expand...
That’s because there are no investors looking to invest in a
directors first film. Investors are looking to make their money
back so they tend to look for filmmakers who have a track record.
 
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Absolution_Films said:
From a guy in the same situation although im now 26, so i am definitely not getting any younger.....

i would say get a job that gives you a stable income but also allows you to follow your passion around it, you have the camera and the editing software, just get out there, practice practice practice....

you can read as many books as you like or watch as many films, but you learn the most from doing and at first failing generally, some of my first things i shot on film, i look back and am truly embarrassed, but you know what everytime i got my camera out and shot something, i learned something new and i am still learning.

I would say instead of reading a screenplay everyday how about for a while try and film something new everyday... even if its the iconic paper bag floating in the wind ala American Beauty.

You are doing the right things, the first stride is always the longest!!
Click to expand...
Yup, i'm leaning towards the bartending, and short films on the side, but I wish I could get a job as a PA in a big city. Can you even live on being a PA? Don't you have to work like 70 hrs/wk?

I've been reading all the screenplays and working on my own since it's my strength. Writing is truly my gift along with a photographic memory. I've became so consumed by them since I want to be the best....
 
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directorik said:
Welcome to indietalk.

My advice is to STOP taking classes and start making movies. Just
short films with whatever video camera, crew and actors you can
find. The camera doesn’t have to be good the script doesn’t have
to be good the actors don’t need to be good and the crew doesn’t
need to be experienced. What you need to do now is to make movies.


An excellent idea. Any experience is good experience.

Another excellent idea. Many directors have gone this route.

I’m liking the pattern here. This is a great way to get some much
needed experience.

Another realistic choice. Making short films has launched many
careers. And you’re right, it could take a very short time or it
could never happen. The fact is no matter what choice you make at
this stage the outcome could be a career in a short time, in a few
years or never.

The guy told you the truth. A degree means almost nothing in
filmmaking. A director with several award winning short films and
no degree has an advantage over a director with a degree and no
award winning films.

But only YOU know if college is what will motivate you. Some
people feel going to college (any college) is a good thing. I
don’t. But only based on my experience. People who went to college
or film school have a different perspective. Both are realistic
and both can lead to a career in film.

Ya know, at some point we ALL leave the homestead to pursue our
career. Being in a city where there is a lot of film production
increases the chances that you will get jobs and meet people in
the industry.


That’s because there are no investors looking to invest in a
directors first film. Investors are looking to make their money
back so they tend to look for filmmakers who have a track record.
Click to expand...
True bro, college wasn't for me.... I found myself learning about film or trying to make films while taking my third math class with a teacher that could barely speak english. I know they are all good ideas. But i'm afraid if I join the military, I might lose that passion, or die.

The economy is so bad in Ohio, it's only going to get worse.

As for when you brought up the fact that we all have to leave our homestead and move to a bigger city, it reminds me of Federico Fellini's "I Vitelloni". He gets on that train and chases his dream, leaving his small city for Rome while his friends are sleeping their lives away. I feel that I have to do the same soon, or else I'm just going to end up being average since time flies by so fast....
 
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The economy is bad in California and only getting worse.
The economy is bad in New York and only getting worse.
I suspect no matter where you move the economy will
be bad. I know for a fact that no matter where you move
to get a job in film the economy is affecting hiring and the
competition fierce - even in entry level jobs.

You know this. Just as we all know how bad the economy
is in your area. You have the passion. Time to get on that
train just like Moraldo Rubini did.
 
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TruEsTaR said:
Can you even live on being a PA? Don't you have to work like 70 hrs/wk?
Click to expand...

70 hours a week?! :eek:

That's pretty cushy. Aaaaah, to not have responsibilities once again, and only having to put in 70 hours. I pine for the days of old. :P

p.s. I hear 1st ADs only have to put in a solid 40 hours, 9 to 5's each week. They've already paid their dues. :lol:

p.p.s. Stop reading; start doing. :yes:
 
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directorik said:
The economy is bad in California and only getting worse.
The economy is bad in New York and only getting worse.
I suspect no matter where you move the economy will
be bad. I know for a fact that no matter where you move
to get a job in film the economy is affecting hiring and the
competition fierce - even in entry level jobs.

You know this. Just as we all know how bad the economy
is in your area. You have the passion. Time to get on that
train just like Moraldo Rubini did.
Click to expand...
yes, I realize this. My only question is whether or the McKee seminar will pay off or not.
It's $1,000, nine hours a day for four days long. It helped Charlie Kaufman in "adaptation.", didn't it? :lol:

You're right on. The economy everywhere in the U.S. is bad.... And I firmly believe it will be awhile before it gets better.
 
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TruEsTaR said:
My only question is whether or the McKee seminar will pay off or not.
Click to expand...
Pay off? Meaning that you will end up with a career?
Or that you will learn something?

I'm sure that seminars help. You took the Simens course
and it helped. Many people have taken McKee's seminar
and have been helped. Only YOU can make these courses
and seminars pay off. But many people who have never
takes these courses and seminars have ended up with
rewarding careers.

I am a believer in doing and I think that most courses and
seminars are a waste of time. Personal opinion only. The
real question is can YOU make the McKee seminar will pay
off or not? Will you learn more by spending $1,000 on that
seminar or by using that money to make a couple of short
films?

I know the answer for me. I know what I did when I was 17
to 20. What's the right path for you? What do you REALLY
want to do with your limited money and time?
 
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Welcome Iggs/ Nino!

Okay, first off, to the forum, this here is a very, VERY smart kid. He is, absolutely, studying/researching all avenues. He has an acute sense of structure, already (from his diligent reading and watching of all the greats).


1) I think you are miles ahead in regards to a film specific body of knowledge....100 points.
2) Find a job, probably any job, at this point. Could include the military (a member here, Gooberman, is active and also manages to film shorts). An internship probably would be unpaid (I, myself, did a non-paying, two -year with a documentary maker but it was one of the best decisions I've made). Two members here, SonnyBoo (Peter John Ross) http://www.peterjohnross.com/, and MidiFilms (Johnny Wu) http://www.mdifilm.com/index.html are in Ohio (not sure where you are in relation to these guys). Perhaps they are willing to tutor an apprentice? Doesn't hurt to make an inquiry.
3) You've started to purchase some tools. I would suggest purchasing or renting a camera so you can do as Rik suggested....go out and film! Learn what your camera can do. Then learn what sound can do. Learn how they compliment each other. Film your first short, edit it, and learn from mistakes.... wash, repeat.
4) You don't need a film degree.
5) I don't think you need to take another writing seminar. I think you're industrious enough to do your own research on the net.
6) If you're feeling stifled in your parent's home, then it is time to find your way out. It will be rough, but that's just more fuel for the fire.

Glad to have you here. There's a ton of great information and resources at Indietalk, as well as seasoned professionals if you have any questions. :)


EDIT: oops, you DO have a camera. So get out there, then!
 
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The essence of the existential crisis you face is this: Sink, or chose to swim.

In the end you don't get to CHOSE the outcome an any decision, you only get to make the choice. You may make the exact right choice, but in the end, everything can still come out all wonky! So what to do? You make good choices, regardless of the possible negative outcome.
 
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I vote for option E.

But, honestly, if you're saving up then it's better not to blow it on seminars that teach you but don't give you qualifications. If you want to get into the industry then the sad fact is that you need to have bags of initiative, experience and preferably an academic qualification in a relevant field.

I say save up and start shooting shorts.
 
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I respect what you say Nick, and i'll consider it. But with the economy as bad as it is now, and my opinion that it will only get worse in the next few years, I don't know if school would be the best decision now. I'm going to crank out a ton of shorts regardless....

I was actually contemplating making 100-200 short films in one year. Shooting on the weekends and editing during the weeks.... D.W. Griffith style.

That would advance my filmmaking whether my shorts were great or not.

I think it's crucial that i'll need "hands on" work as bird said, helping out experienced filmmakers or interning without pay.
 
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bird said:
Welcome Iggs/ Nino!

Okay, first off, to the forum, this here is a very, VERY smart kid. He is, absolutely, studying/researching all avenues. He has an acute sense of structure, already (from his diligent reading and watching of all the greats).


1) I think you are miles ahead in regards to a film specific body of knowledge....100 points.
2) Find a job, probably any job, at this point. Could include the military (a member here, Gooberman, is active and also manages to film shorts). An internship probably would be unpaid (I, myself, did a non-paying, two -year with a documentary maker but it was one of the best decisions I've made). Two members here, SonnyBoo (Peter John Ross) http://www.peterjohnross.com/, and MidiFilms (Johnny Wu) http://www.mdifilm.com/index.html are in Ohio (not sure where you are in relation to these guys). Perhaps they are willing to tutor an apprentice? Doesn't hurt to make an inquiry.
3) You've started to purchase some tools. I would suggest purchasing or renting a camera so you can do as Rik suggested....go out and film! Learn what your camera can do. Then learn what sound can do. Learn how they compliment each other. Film your first short, edit it, and learn from mistakes.... wash, repeat.
4) You don't need a film degree.
5) I don't think you need to take another writing seminar. I think you're industrious enough to do your own research on the net.
6) If you're feeling stifled in your parent's home, then it is time to find your way out. It will be rough, but that's just more fuel for the fire.

Glad to have you here. There's a ton of great information and resources at Indietalk, as well as seasoned professionals if you have any questions. :)


EDIT: oops, you DO have a camera. So get out there, then!
Click to expand...
Thanks and it's great to see you here!!!! I went with a panasonic dvx100b. I still have to pick up some lighting and final draft 8....

I'm trying to contemplate whether or not to buy final cut pro studio, or if i want to attend Mckee's story seminar, since I don't know how much longer he'll be around. I probably can pick one of them and i'll be stuck with a torrent version of FCPS if I choose to go to new york. (it will cost 750 for the seminar, 100 for gas, and 150 for food/ect for 4 days). (I roughly have about $3,000-$4,000 left of saved up money)

I have such a passion for working in film, i'd be willing to do ANYTHING for it. If that means delivering coffee without pay at 4:55a.m. for a couple of years for little or no pay, I'd do it in a heartbeat....

I'm going to make a thread about how all of you got started into indie filmmaking. I'd like to hear all of your experiences good and bad. It will help me to make my final decision.
 
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ROC said:
Do a documentary about what Cleveland is like without Lebron James.
Click to expand...
lololololol.

I actually have plenty of ideas for great documentaries. I'd like to tackle more intense subjects about human emotion though.

You'll see Lebron's documentary if Bosh, Wade, and himself win a championship. It's been a plan to make it for three years now for all of them to get rich....
 
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