At the elite film schools you'll find brand names among the students. Names like Sinatra, Wasserman, Bridges. There are people with 1600 GRE's, Harvard Law degrees. Would you like people like that to form relationships with? Or people like me? I didn't go to film school, but I have my own connections, for example I have 10% off coupons for Hamburger Harry's.
Film = #2 most worthless degree
- Thread starter Blade_Jones
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At the elite film schools you'll find brand names among the students. Names like Sinatra, Wasserman, Bridges. There are people with 1600 GRE's, Harvard Law degrees. Would you like people like that to form relationships with? Or people like me? I didn't go to film school, but I have my own connections, for example I have 10% off coupons for Hamburger Harry's.
This is a rule of thumb I've heard across many fields when it comes to getting a degree:
If a higher degree (or one at all) does not increase your pay grade, it's not worth it.
Filmmaking is the only creative field where I could maybe understand how school would have it's advantages. And that's because filmmaking is a collaborative art and school is a great place to make connections. But a degree in music or classical art? Definitely not worth it. You can teach yourself or take lessons/apprentice. A starving artist doesn't need another reason to starve(student loans).
If a higher degree (or one at all) does not increase your pay grade, it's not worth it.
Filmmaking is the only creative field where I could maybe understand how school would have it's advantages. And that's because filmmaking is a collaborative art and school is a great place to make connections. But a degree in music or classical art? Definitely not worth it. You can teach yourself or take lessons/apprentice. A starving artist doesn't need another reason to starve(student loans).
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As someone who went to business school, the best degree you can get for film/television is a business degree. You can learn almost everything you need to know about filmmaking from A) watching films, and B) working on film productions - even as just a production assistant. But what those won't teach you is how to create budgets, manage people, make and understand contracts, sell, make presentations, and all of the things that actually make a filmmaker successful. In other words, business school prepares you to be a producer.
And the article's #6 - Communications is way off. Yeah, it's a super easy major. But lots of people working in marketing have communications degrees. It's like a poor-man's marketing degree, without having to go to business school.
And the article's #6 - Communications is way off. Yeah, it's a super easy major. But lots of people working in marketing have communications degrees. It's like a poor-man's marketing degree, without having to go to business school.
I know an MBA who parlayed his business savvy, networking ability and pragmatic thinking -- all things he got from B school, into a successful acting career. They guy gets works and pays his bills through acting.
Agree with Dave 100%. My daughter is on a Juliard track, we'll see if she makes it, but her piano and voice teachers are both Juliard grads -- and they are special people. You can't teach yourself opera or classical piano. That's like saying you can become a major league pitcher without ever getting coaching. Places like Juliard and Curtis keep the fire lit on centuries old traditions and shouldn't be dismissed so quickly.
So would getting a degree in something else that interests you somewhat/has more job potential be the best alternative (at this point in time a business degree hasn't caught interest despite hearing about it a lot)?
Or maybe even one of the worthless degrees just for the knowledge/interest, then get a job that your credentials match up with (just a GED and maybe other experience).
And of course during the course of all this making films constantly and going through the festival circuit?
I don't think not going to college is necessarily an acceptable path from my mom's perspective, if you know what I mean.
Or maybe even one of the worthless degrees just for the knowledge/interest, then get a job that your credentials match up with (just a GED and maybe other experience).
And of course during the course of all this making films constantly and going through the festival circuit?
I don't think not going to college is necessarily an acceptable path from my mom's perspective, if you know what I mean.
That linked article was written by a shithead. Factually wrong, small minded, cynical, stupid stupid and stupid. It was trying to funny and wasn't. I'd disregard it since you're seeking advice. If you're not rich, find the best public school that will accept you and major in something that interests you. Learn to read, speak and write. After that, or during that time, find some trade that is employable. Law, nursing, teaching, something. Ideally find a vocation that has a flexible schedule so you can work on your passion: film. That's what I'd do.
I don't believe film school is useless at all. You make connections, you learn how everything works, you get a 4 years college education to back you and will look good on any application, film schools have lots of equipment and can provide you a lot of resources you may not normally have.
My bad, probably didn't scrutinize enough. Thanks!
I took a one year Media Fundamentals to learn the basics, and that was enough for me-but I do my films for myself first-and if the times comes I get into a film festival great, but it's not what I make my living at.
I know someone who has studied and completed not only said fundamental program at college, but also has gone to three different (and completed) colleges/film schools and only NOW in her mid 20's, she's a production coordinator for a company that films documentary/reality shows (shows LIKE Flip this house-no she doesn't do that particular program)-she's already is wondering if maybe film isn't her end result, but rather a choice between corporate or production. Film is a LONG way off for her even now.
Film school is a great place for learning the basics, but in my experience, I've known a few people who have come out thinking they're going to go right to Hollywood or start making million dollar feature films off the hop-that's not the way it has worked out-you've got to work your way up.
I know someone who has studied and completed not only said fundamental program at college, but also has gone to three different (and completed) colleges/film schools and only NOW in her mid 20's, she's a production coordinator for a company that films documentary/reality shows (shows LIKE Flip this house-no she doesn't do that particular program)-she's already is wondering if maybe film isn't her end result, but rather a choice between corporate or production. Film is a LONG way off for her even now.
Film school is a great place for learning the basics, but in my experience, I've known a few people who have come out thinking they're going to go right to Hollywood or start making million dollar feature films off the hop-that's not the way it has worked out-you've got to work your way up.
A film degree wasn't for me.
I'd rather get certified in final cut pro, intern for production houses (like I am right now), and network/make connections while making my own films.
You could go to NYU and get $200,000 into debt, but unless you're the next Spike Lee or Paul Schrader, you can bet you'll be paying back loans for a long time....
I'd rather take that $200,000 and spend it making a feature.
and never let anything get in the way of your goals/dreams....
I'd rather get certified in final cut pro, intern for production houses (like I am right now), and network/make connections while making my own films.
You could go to NYU and get $200,000 into debt, but unless you're the next Spike Lee or Paul Schrader, you can bet you'll be paying back loans for a long time....
I'd rather take that $200,000 and spend it making a feature.
and never let anything get in the way of your goals/dreams....
@SHD - Well, Juliard is a bit different, don't you think? You don't even need to complete a degree from there for it to help your career, just having attended for a year or two is enough. There are plenty of famous/successful people out there who went and never finished(Robin Williams is one example I can remember right now). So I'd argue that most people going there aren't doing it because they think an art/music degree will help them find a job, but rather that they are going because there is a lot to learn there and great people to learn from. Which is why there's no shame in leaving before you're done. If you've learned everything you can, why stay for the BA?
How many other schools can you say that about? Not many, I'd bet.
How many other schools can you say that about? Not many, I'd bet.
I hear a lot of people saying 'you should invest $200,000 in making a feature rather than going to film school' but let's face it, most people who go to university have their parents pay for their education. Personally speaking there's no way my parents would pay for me to make a film but they're more than happy to fund my education.
The trouble with a degree in film is not only how many people are competing for so few jobs. The problem is is that most of the jobs in the film industry are low pay and freelance which means that making a career, even with a degree, is much more difficult that a degree that'll get you a nice desk job for forty years. And then there's the problem of rich kids who go to the cinema and assume they want to be filmmakers, without knowing what actually goes into the process.
The course that I'm doing is number 4 on that 'useless degrees' list but I'm not worried. I know that one day I'd like to be making films professionally but for the time being I'm content to spend three years getting a degree from one of the best universities in the world that should (God willing) keep me solvent for most of my adult life.
The trouble with a degree in film is not only how many people are competing for so few jobs. The problem is is that most of the jobs in the film industry are low pay and freelance which means that making a career, even with a degree, is much more difficult that a degree that'll get you a nice desk job for forty years. And then there's the problem of rich kids who go to the cinema and assume they want to be filmmakers, without knowing what actually goes into the process.
The course that I'm doing is number 4 on that 'useless degrees' list but I'm not worried. I know that one day I'd like to be making films professionally but for the time being I'm content to spend three years getting a degree from one of the best universities in the world that should (God willing) keep me solvent for most of my adult life.
Yeah, you have to have a back-up or day-job plan. No one wants to work at The Gap or TGI Fridays for the rest of their lives while they pursue film on the side.
I'm a big proponent of vocational training. It seems like most people look down on it, like it's a lesser sort of blue collar thing. But really, we need electricians and plumbers and mechanics. And btw, they are making bank while others poo-poo their professions, they themselves working at their minimum wage jobs.
But I'm probably bias since I went the trade school route to do massage therapy. It does seem to be perfectly suited though. I made good money and am considered full time while only working 3 days a week. Which leaves me a 4-day weekend every week to do what I want.
I'm a big proponent of vocational training. It seems like most people look down on it, like it's a lesser sort of blue collar thing. But really, we need electricians and plumbers and mechanics. And btw, they are making bank while others poo-poo their professions, they themselves working at their minimum wage jobs.
But I'm probably bias since I went the trade school route to do massage therapy. It does seem to be perfectly suited though. I made good money and am considered full time while only working 3 days a week. Which leaves me a 4-day weekend every week to do what I want.
If you're implying that the norm is to attend Juilliard and not graduate, I believe you're mistaken. It's also a mistake to say Juilliard students are not interested in a profession in the arts -- which is a fancy way of saying a JOB -- but at the same time anyone who goes to Juilliard or even a city college should also have in mind the that "There's a lot to learn there and great people to learn from." You can get that from any school. I don't think I understand your point.
I've been working as a "professional" in media for almost 10 years now. I get paid to edit, produce, shoot etc. Granted, mostly smaller shows and what not, but still, it pays the bills.
Most of the guys I'm around, myself included, don't even consider a degree when crewing for a gig. If anything, I try to avoid the guys that advertise their degree first and formost, "I have a bachelor's from XX University in Film or Television blah blah" because they're hard to work with. Those kinds if guys are kind of "know it alls" and won't take instruction. The guy with a killer reel you hire in a heartbeat, or even better, the kid that's tagged along and helped and learned by doing and has been reliable, hire him. You know he's willing to do it the way you ask as opposed to the "right" way.
Most of the guys I'm around, myself included, don't even consider a degree when crewing for a gig. If anything, I try to avoid the guys that advertise their degree first and formost, "I have a bachelor's from XX University in Film or Television blah blah" because they're hard to work with. Those kinds if guys are kind of "know it alls" and won't take instruction. The guy with a killer reel you hire in a heartbeat, or even better, the kid that's tagged along and helped and learned by doing and has been reliable, hire him. You know he's willing to do it the way you ask as opposed to the "right" way.
It may be a biased response, but here in the silicon valley, I have access to plenty of people that started with 800x my advantages. Some of them are almost as good as me at film, but they all look down on me. How stupid am I if I didn't even check the "inherit money" box on my birth certificate, Sheesh, some people.
I got a 1540 SAT. Nobody gives a flying f**k about it. Ever worked as hard as you could for years then sat down at a bar with these people? If you can't buy a 425 dollar round of drinks and act casual about it, they look at you like someone is forcing them to eat garbage out of a dumpster. (I'm sure each of you can cite one person that isn't like this, knock yourself out, I'm generalizing)
When the super rich tried to keep health insurance away from 9/11 emergency responders, that was kind of the last straw. So No, I don't want to hobnob with rupert murdock jr. I've had it with the childish stupidity of those that still believe in an American caste system. That is basically the opposite of what America is supposed to be about. Once the hiltons and murdocks have finished circling the American dream with a purple velvet rope, you'll have trouble owning a home ever in your life. I see these people as termites. Small minded, caring only about themselves, constantly consuming and pleasuring themselves to the detriment of all around them. I wouldn't spend 4 years with them, I've seen a guy commit suicide because he didn't have 5 grand. My world has no place for their apathy.
For those clutching a hello kitty doll, and wondering why I'm so "mean"
I'm not, I'm a really nice guy
I see it like this
WRONG: See no evil, hear no evil, put on a happy face
RIGHT: See evil, hear evil, fight evil, circumvent evil, put on a happy face
And hey, there are more responses possible to a negative post than an internet flame, or that motherly thing where someone comes in and tells everyone to calm down
If there's cancer, go to the doctor, get the x-ray, look straight at the tumor, and have it removed. There's really nothing negative about that.
I will accept your hamburger coupon, but please don't tell any of my investors I use coupons, or they will withdraw their investment and give it to A.J. Soprano.
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Yes, yes and yes. I have found this to be the case for many years. In
some ways it has gotten worse in the past ten. Too many grads - too
few people with on set experience. I avoid the "trade school" grads like
a hooker with an Adam's Apple.