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misc Why do TV shows keep attention better?

sfoster

sfoster

Staff Member
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Why is it 180 minute movies seem long as hell and in dire need of editing, but I can spend an entire week watching 180 hours of 24 and then want another season?
What exactly is going on that a movie has way more thought, time and money put into it and yet is boring and long with 1/10th of the running time of a show?

Anyone have any good resources or opinions on structuring of a TV show - not just episodes but seasons as well...
Like is every single episode hitting the same notes at the same time if I were to go back and mark everything down for a season of 24?

Big moment at 12 minutes, 30 minutes and the end of the episode?
What about season after season after season, do they all just keep repeating the heroes journey?
 
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sfoster said:
It's a shame that you can't just write stuff you think is fun and expect to make any money. Everything is work :censored:
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ROFL. I think you're going to make it after all. Acceptance of that realization is the genesis of every great artist, lol.

Creating is easy and fun, and for that reason, you will never outcreate 10,000 competitors. However, working hard, staying focused, continuing to think and refine after the novelty and fun is long past, this is real work, and most of your competitors aren't mature enough to bother doing it. That's how one actually wins the creative race. By growing up.

Please don't assign much credibility to my above structure. I basically just wrote the minimum possible pattern for an infinite serial.
 
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Nate North said:
Ok, but if the fun part is work for you, and the work part is also work for you, what is the fun part? Indie filmmaking is mainly one of those things that people do because they love it, so which part keeps you exited enough to trudge through the many hard parts?
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Production is fun. Writing is work and Editing is work. there's a little creme there in between the hard crusty bread.
I guess I was more focused on the destination rather than the journey.
 
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sfoster said:
Production is fun. Writing is work and Editing is work. there's a little creme there in between the hard crusty bread.
I guess I was more focused on the destination rather than the journey.
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Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. I love creme filled frosted donuts, but if you just gave me a bowl of crème and frosting every day, I'd be sick of it in a week.
 
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Nate North said:
Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be. I love creme filled frosted donuts, but if you just gave me a bowl of crème and frosting every day, I'd be sick of it in a week.
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I'm definitely no model of discipline, but yeah life can't be all play.. if you want to grow food to nourish yourself, you have to work the soil, so to speak.

There comes a point where EVERYTHING becomes work if you get good enough at it, and you've done it for long enough.
Even games like basketball that people play for fun, once you go pro, it stops being fun, you stop enjoying it as a game, its about winning. thats what they're paying you for.

Ultimately i want to create something that I can stand behind, i was just lamenting that my intuition alone and years of short story writing experience are not sufficient, but I'll get there eventually. It's all coming together.
 
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sfoster said:
I guess I was more focused on the destination rather than the journey.
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I think in practicality you have to hybrid motivations a lot. I too keep my eye on the goal, and that's the best motivation to follow through and finish something. Day to day though, the marathon nature of artistic self improvement does go better if you can feel good about the small victories along the way. It's also a way to hedge your bets. There's not a lot of people crossing the finish line, so for many racers, it's not a bad mentality to just enjoy the runners high.

As far as anything becoming work once you're on payroll. Sure, no arguments, but the bright side is that David Fincher probably still yells out, "oh fuck yeah" after he gets a legendary shot. Even after decades. People working Amazon warehouse probably don't. Filmmaker is a long road, but if you make it, I still believe it's a good one.
 
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Nate North said:
As far as anything becoming work once you're on payroll. Sure, no arguments, but the bright side is that David Fincher probably still yells out, "oh fuck yeah" after he gets a legendary shot. Even after decades. People working Amazon warehouse probably don't. Filmmaker is a long road, but if you make it, I still believe it's a good one.
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Oh yeah I'm sure producing will always be fun, actors really have the best job in the world.
 
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Sometimes as a joke, dependent on time and overhead, I troll my actors a bit with terrible notes.

It's hilarious to the people who know I'm doing it.

Ok, you walk over to the table and pick up the soda can, and then you say "If you don't like the weather in LA, just wait around, it will change"

ACTION

then I patiently wait for them to get halfway through the line and yell "CUT"

I step out from behind the monitors and say something like "ok, ok, that was great, but I need you to pick up the can with more "emotion". Just give it like 105% more "gusto". And with the line, I want you to really put the accent on the syllable of the future tense"

They soldier on, and I continue giving more vague and confusing notes "That one was perfect, but I need you to look more "introspective". Pick up that can like you lost it years ago and just found it in an unexpected place"

Soon everyone bursts out laughing, and we let the actor in on the joke.

I bring them over to the monitor, and show them the results of trying to balance all this junk input, and without fail it looks like a horse trying to juggle.

Then I show them the first take, which is always the most natural one, and say "I'm not going to give you many notes on set. I hired you because you're a good actor, so just be yourself and relax, that's what's going to make this believable. Also, I wanted you to see what a bad note looked like, so you can assign a higher value to the good notes when they come"

It helps set a vibe of friendly mutual respect at the outset, and helps make the new actor feel like part of the team by creating an inside joke that they share with the crew.
 
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IMO TV shows have a lot more time to build the story and characters across multiple episodes and seasons, so it's easier for them to invest in what's going on. In films, they have to cram everything into a shorter amount of time, and sometimes it feels like they're in a rush or they're missing something.
As far as how you structure the TV show, you need to have a clear plan for where the story will go and make sure that each episode has enough action, tension and emotional moments to keep people hooked. And yes, there may be some repetition, but these moments should keep fresh, right?
Like an advertisement. If you look closely, marketers use the same emotional hooks.
After all, the key to making a great TV show is characters and storylines that people care about. By analogy with stand-up, if you like... To one degree or another, we virtually live our own emotions, only in a new environment, as if. That's what will keep us coming back from series to series.
 
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If anyone has a good suggestion for a TV show to do a beat breakdown for a season, I'm listening.
Really was great to do the picard season 3 breakdown and think I'd benefit from having another 4-5 repeats of the experience
 
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mlesemann said:
It may not be your taste, and it's only 8 episodes, but I loved The Diplomat on Netflix.
And since 8-10 episode seasons seem to be standard at the moment (subject to change any day now!), it might be worth doing something like that.
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Yeah that sounds perfect, I'll check it out.

I feel like something that can convert to a TV show instead of a movie allows me to establish a much faster pacing while still hitting my word count quota.
indietalk said:
Baskets season 1
Ted Lasso season 1
Schitt's Creek season 1
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I wouldn't mind revisiting Baskets season 1. been a while. thanks.
 
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"Stylistically, the show uses point of view shots—giving the programme its title—with the thoughts of main characters Mark and Jeremy audible as voice-overs."
 
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