What are your opinions about using the terms: We See or We Hear, CUT TO, ANGLE ETC,

[Slugwriter]

These terms are used in all the best screenplays, yet many people say it ruins the script. I think it's necassary to add these things because It is our job to tell what the camera sees. If we want to paint an image in someones mind, these terms do it well without actually saying, The Camera tilts and does a 360 rotation shot around the dead body.... Instead I can say, We Move Back and circle the dead body.... Yes, we're supposed to tell a story, but at the same time screenwriting isn't a book. We got to make the Reader feel like they are the camera. That's what I try to do when I write.

I never use the word Camera, but I do use Angle once in a while, only to make it clear that the veiwer, or reader, that whatever we are angleing on is important for some reason.

Tell me what you think, what terms do you use? Do you think I shouldn't use these terms and why? Why does every script you almost read use these scripts but it's so bad to use them? Tell us what you think?

 

[directorik]

I don’t believe it is the job of the writer to determine the
shots, angles or camera moves in a movie. If a writer wants an
image in the readers mind then telling the reader how the camera
will move or what the angles should be is cheating. We do not make
the reader feel like they are the camera, we need to make the
reader understand the story.

Unlike a novel a screenplay will be interpreted by many, talented,
skilled, creative people before the viewer sees it.

 

[don patterson]

My two cents.
In the end, I try to get as much white on the script page as possible. I avoid any camera movement descriptions -- leave that to the director/cinematographer. I start very wordy (in early drafts) and try to get as minimal as possible by final polish. Nothing goes from rough to polish in less than a year (with exception of current project due to subject matter). I sit on ideas to let them evolve in my head and on paper. I am very fortunate for many will offer to read my scripts, comment and offer quality suggestions, (I don't let friends or other film makers read my 'crap'). Read-throughs help at the end. Try not to say what can be seen from the directors direction or actor's actions or cinematographer's camera lens -- they are artists too and the production of a movie is a group project.
Hope this helps.

 

[Adeimantus]

Both replies are good ones. Remember, if you're trying to sell the script, who your audience is.

First, it's an overworked, underpaid intern who does the initial cover. Then it's the proverbial "busier than a mofo" exec. Cluttering up the script with camera directions slows down the read and takes them out of the story. They're not interested in how well you can direct, they're interested in how good the story is and if they can sell it. All that stuff will be added to the script later by pros (assuming they want your script).

Plus, leaving transitions, etc. out gives you more room to get all your wonderful "must-have" scenes in without going over the 120 pg. limit.

So, yeah, I'd keep all that stuff to a minimum.

 

[chilipie]

I think CUT TO, FADE TO and "we hear" are fine, but should be used sparingly. As a DP and editor I don't particularly like having camera angles in the script - it gets confusing very easily when the director then decides to shoot it slightly differently or shots are dropped for whatever reason. The feature I'm currently working on (it was shot last summer) had a writer-director, which made things both easier and more difficult - many of the instructions in the script we stuck to, but there were also ones that the director understood in his head but were difficult to explain to the rest of the crew. Thankfully I managed to get rid of most of them before shooting, but there were still moments when the script said one thing but the director/storyboard was saying another, which can make for quite a frustrating day on set. When it comes to editing, I want to see the script as a story in its own right, not just a set of instructions for piecing the film together. By all means include them when necessary, but I feel that the writer should be telling a story, not describing the finished film.

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

I use “We see” and “We hear” out of bad habit, but prefer not to.

EDIT: I need to clarify this:

For me, if it’s on screen -we see it (meaning if it's on screen then of course we see it, so I don't use "We see", unless from bad habit.)

If it conveys or creates story when heard we -HEAR- it. (meaning I cap the -SOUND- I want, but don't use "We hear", unless it's from bad habit.)

I use POV and INSERT now and then, but no other angles or movement.

CUT TO: once in a while to signify a cause and effect link between two scenes.


-Thanks-

 

[VPTurner]

In my opinion, don't use them. Your first and only audience when trying to sell your spec is the reader. Don't tell it from a theater audience POV. Tell the reader a story. Don't tell the readers what they're seeing and what they're hearing because their mind's eyes and ears will do that for you.

I wrote all the "we see" and "we hear" when I first got started, but I've since unlearned all of that, and now I approach the writing as if there's just the two of us: me, the writer, telling the story, and you, the reader, listening intently.

 

[sonnyboo]

It's okay to use those terms when you are intending to direct the script yourself. If you're not, then most people will be put off by being told how to shoot the script.

Making use of the occasional "Close Up" to signify showing something significant in the scene is okay. Like a murder weapon on the floor under the couch, etc.

 

[Slugwriter]

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

I have many books on Screenwriting and my favorites are SCREENPLAY by Sid Field and THE PERFECT SCREENPLAY. I used them to form my writing and since have created my own style.

When you say, I write for the Reader and I. Well, that's what I try to do to, that's why I use We see, We hear.

I have a vision for many things, but by no means am an asshole. I would like to direct my films 'cause I feel I'm untapped resource with an x amount of potential. I am never short of energy and very very good with people. I treat them good to, so when I say, hey, I want to direct my scripts, don't assume I'm doing: I WANT THIS A CERTAIN WAY AND THIS TO!!!! I'm relaxed, and I take peoples ideas with consideration. If anyone could give me a few hints on websites or places I can start to help my directorial aspect, other than college which I am going to go, then please tell me.

After reading your comments, I am mixed about whether or not I should keep the We see and We hear stuff, and just scrap any Camera directions I have. From reading the number on screenplay writing book, by Sid field. He does say it is normal to use these things, but in moderation of not less. So, i will scrap some things and keep others. I will cut down all the wordy paragraphs nice and tight. Please, if anyone will read my script and give me a few ideas, I'd be glad to send it.

 

[Papertwinproductions]

I want to direct my scripts, don't assume I'm doing: I WANT THIS A CERTAIN WAY AND THIS TO!!!! I'm relaxed, and I take peoples ideas with consideration. If anyone could give me a few hints on websites or places I can start to help my directorial aspect, other than college which I am going to go, then please tell me.

After reading your comments, I am mixed about whether or not I should keep the We see and We hear stuff, and just scrap any Camera directions I have. From reading the number on screenplay writing book, by Sid field. He does say it is normal to use these things, but in moderation of not less. So, i will scrap some things and keep others. I will cut down all the wordy paragraphs nice and tight. Please, if anyone will read my script and give me a few ideas, I'd be glad to send it.

There's no handbook for directing- wait, there probably is...- just get yourself some half decent material that won't put a hole in your pocket and try it out, see how you fair with it all. I'm sure you'll have absorbed one minuscule orb of directing capability from a director who you admire, you seem pretty confident bud, just go for it.

 

[Slugwriter]

Thank you kind sir. My mind is free, in the sense, I do what I love and I don't look back. If you tell yourself, I will do this, it will happen. It will.

 

[Graeme]

I only write for my own movies so my style is basically dialogue plus a few key notes on how I want the shot to look. I have other writer's critic my stuff but I always tell them to focus on the story and the dialogue and avoid the calls etc, as they are for myself (I know I don't put a lot of Cut To, etc but I visually have them in my mind).

That said I'm trying to put more in and work out more of a story board so that I can communicate the visual aspect of the story better with actors and stage crew.

 

[sonnyboo]

Try reading FRANK DARABONT's actual screenplays. They are the most incredible in terms of detail and form. Impeccable economy of words, even though he is usually writing for himself to direct.

Read SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION or THE GREENMILE as examples of perfect screenplay form and style.

http://www.angelfire.com/movies/coolscreenwriter/scripts/greenmile.txt

http://www.angelfire.com/movies/moviefreak/shawshank.html

 

[directorik]

When you say, I write for the Reader and I. Well, that's what I try to do to, that's why I use We see, We hear.

And that's why you will often read that there is no need
to use "we see" and "we hear". Because every reader
knows what you write on the page is something that "we"
will hear or see. It's redundant. But it is uses and if that's
the style YOU like, then it's fine to write that way.

If anyone could give me a few hints on websites or places I can start to help my directorial aspect, other than college which I am going to go, then please tell me.

Everyone learns in a different way. My way was to make
movies. I never looked at website or a book and I didn't go
to college. I made movies. I made a lot of them. That's how
I got better and helped my directorial aspect.

After reading your comments, I am mixed about whether or not I should keep the We see and We hear stuff, and just scrap any Camera directions I have. From reading the number on screenplay writing book, by Sid field. He does say it is normal to use these things, but in moderation of not less.

Sid Field's books are a fine resource. His style is many years
outdated. But (again) if you feel you need camera direction
and "we see" and "we hear" to get your story across then
there is no reason to not use them.

 

[VPTurner]

...

When you say, I write for the Reader and I. Well, that's what I try to do to, that's why I use We see, We hear.

...

That's not what I meant. When you say it like that, it's as though you are sitting next to him watching the movie on the screen. You're telling it from the perspective of the audience. The method I'm trying to adopt is there's no "we" because I am not seeing it, I am presenting it.

Plus, "we see" and "we hear" adds redundant, unnecessary text. Obviously, if it's in the screenplay, it's seen and heard. That's what a script is: what is seen and what is heard. EDIT: directorik beat me to it.

What reads better and has less chance of breaking the reader out of the narrative and reminding him he's reading?

A) We see the getaway sedan screech around the far corner and close in fast.

B) The getaway sedan screeches around the far corner and closes in fast.
​

In the second example, the reader is focused on the sedan, not on the allusion that someone is sitting next to him in a darkened theater.

 

[Padnar]

These terms are used in all the best screenplays, yet many people say it ruins the script. I think it's necassary to add these things because It is our job to tell what the camera sees. If we want to paint an image in someones mind, these terms do it well without actually saying, The Camera tilts and does a 360 rotation shot around the dead body.... Instead I can say, We Move Back and circle the dead body.... Yes, we're supposed to tell a story, but at the same time screenwriting isn't a book. We got to make the Reader feel like they are the camera. That's what I try to do when I write.

I never use the word Camera, but I do use Angle once in a while, only to make it clear that the veiwer, or reader, that whatever we are angleing on is important for some reason.

Tell me what you think, what terms do you use? Do you think I shouldn't use these terms and why? Why does every script you almost read use these scripts but it's so bad to use them? Tell us what you think?

I think a few of us write specialised script, so it is best to avoid camera directions and all that ,but for a shooting script it is necessary. However I like to read scripts without camera directions .
padma

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

While the ball is rolling we might as well include:


“Starts”, “Like”, “Is”, “As if”, Words that end in ING.


-Thanks-

 

[Slugwriter]

Thanks everyone.

I decided to scrap te We see and We hear sections. I will still use specific shots every once in a while for artistic views. I am also deciding the re-write it on another file, shortning the description and mixing dialogue and Action in a harmonic way. I have been thinking for a long time now on my choices, but this forum really helped me choose the best path.

I'm going for a chinatown type of action description and style. Of course adding my own touch, but I did realize that most scripts that use the terms I have used are from Directors who write their own scripts.

And what camera should I buy if I wanted to make my own film. I want it to look Hollwywood quality and money is not an issue. Give me some brands and types. And if you can, a website to buy them.

But still, I want to hear more ideas.

 

[deepseaengine]

A) We see the getaway sedan screech around the far corner and close in fast.

B) The getaway sedan screeches around the far corner and closes in fast.
​

In the second example, the reader is focused on the sedan, not on the allusion that someone is sitting next to him in a darkened theater.

My lecturer at Uni once said using 'we see' or 'we hear' shouldn't be used for this very reason. Ideally, the reader of the script should get absorbed into the story. If it breaks them away from the 'suspension of disbelief', they might lose interest and end up scrapping it. I have no experience in this area, just what my lecturer once told me.

'Cut to' is apparently acceptable, though more detailed descriptions of shots (such as angles, close-ups, etc) also break the reader away from the story and apparently shouldn't be used.

EDIT: Red One. Lovely camera.

 

[VPTurner]

While the ball is rolling we might as well include:


“Starts”, “Like”, “Is”, “As if”, Words that end in ING.


-Thanks-

Some habits are hard to break. I still catch myself using ING words. And maybe it should be more accurately qualified to say avoid verbs ending in ING to maintain true "present tense".

Technically, though, it is still a form of "present tense", just "present progressive tense". So that's why I wasn't too hard on myself.

Present Progressive Tense

Present progressive tense describes an ongoing action that is happening at the same time the statement is written. This tense is formed by using am/is/are with the verb form ending in -ing.
​

http://leo.stcloudstate.edu/grammar/tenses.html