THE IMPORTANT QUESTION

TheOpusFuller

TheOpusFuller

Alright, I'm posting this discussion in the Newbie thread because I think this is one major issue that needs to be looked at and flushed! I think the newbie section is the perfect home for what's about to be talked about. Every new independent filmmaker and every veteran should be involved in this little chit chat!

So, in my opinion, the issue that needs to be discussed here is what do we do once the film is finished.

For all you new filmmakers out there, for all you filmmakers who have been at this for years, how do you make someone give a damn about the film you have just completed. How do you make them interested enough to invest their time and money to purchase your dvd from your website and sit down and watch it!?

I think that is the question.

A lot of people, including myself make a movie. They make a damn good movie. But then it sits, collects dust and dies.

Think about it. Your name is John Doe and you just made a movie. It can be the next Pulp Fiction for all you know. But the average person out there in the world has no clue who the hell you are or what the hell your movie about. I think the important question here is how do we make that average person in the world curious as to who you are and WANT to find out and watch your movie. What can we do as filmmakers to make that person WANT to spend 10 bucks on your dvd and watch that movie.

I think this is worthy of discussion and I think all of us filmmakers Newbies and Oldies should chime in and flesh this out.

*Let's keep this DIY style. I don't want to bring in Hollywood or major distribution deals.... If you want my reasoning for this, just ask and I will gladly explain why we should start modeling our film distribution as a DIY model and stop thinking we have to rely on Hollywood to get anywhere in the world when it comes to Film distribution. :)


Thanks,

The Opus Fuller
www.theopusfuller.com
www.twitter.com/theopusfuller
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
In order to just have ONE major website you would have to
convince all the other websites that are doing that right
now to stop.

Since right now there are several websites that do that, the
issue still is; who goes to them? Who really wants to buy
movies made but us? If we indie filmmakers created that
ONE major website solely for the sale and exposure of
independent film who would go there to BUY movies?

I know I come off as the negative guy, but I really want there
to be a way. I would love it if I could find a way to make money
off the movies I've made that never got distribution.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Do you believe the average movie buyer/goer is interested in actors they’ve never heard of
talking about a movie?
Click to expand...

I don’t know about the average buyer or moviegoer, but I think SOME people ARE interested in actors they’ve never heard of talking about movies they have also never heard of, if it’s in some way entertaining or engaging or enticing.

I think many people are looking for: The next best thing, that great little movie no one has ever heard of, to be 1st on their block to know about some new unknown talent.

If I see an attractive/captivating/intelligent/outspoken/funny actress, I don’t care if she is reading the phone book, I’ll watch it for at least a few seconds. If behind her is the film title and art, great. If her name is shown in text on screen, then I have now heard of her. If an exciting, funny, scary, sexy or dramatically compelling brief clip from the film rolls, then I am in a bit deeper. If she is asked an interesting follow up question that keeps me, cool. If I can click to see a trailer I might watch it. If there is a link to buy the film or info on where to rent it, better than not.

Just the fact that you don’t know if these avenues even exist (and I don’t either) says we aren’t very interested in learning about indie films.
Click to expand...

True, I don’t know if these avenues exist, but that doesn’t mean a lack of interest at all.
Most of what I see on Youtube I didn’t know existed, or that I would have at least a vague interest in seeing it until it was a click away.

I think to some extent big industry banks on up and coming fresh faces, so too should Indie.

-Thanks-
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
We are in agreement on just about everything, Buddy.

Some people are interested in actors they’ve never heard of, some
people like to be the first to know of and recommend unknown
talent, the industry banks on up and coming talent and people will
poke around YouTube to find something interesting.

But the fact remains that getting people to buy or rent the kinds
of movies we make is elusive. As The Opus Fuller said in his first
post, a lot of us make a damn good movie but then we can’t find
people to see it - and more specifically pay to see it.

And good promotion seems to be what’s needed. I wonder if there
are any small, freelance companies that specialize in Media Public
Relations who are willing to do the marketing and promotions for
independent films for no upfront fee?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
When I got a distribution deal for my last feature (10 years ago) the distributor was very positive about the film, signed me up for 3 years, worldwide non-theatrical.

After a year and a half we mutually agreed to dissolve the contract. No matter how much they tried to convince exhibitors to take a look at it, the question always came up: "Who's in it?" The reply, of course, was nobody they'd ever heard of, so they weren't even interested in screening it.

I'm sure if someone could come up with a distribution model that convinced the average moviegoer to value storytelling over star power we might be able to shift the paradigm.

I'm not holding my breath...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thinking about this topic last night on the drive home... After I had watched the OP (Opus Fullers) film "Germanity" and wondering what led to its wining some local awards.

I think it was "regional interest" that gave it what success it had. The choice to have dialog in German with subtitles I think hit a very specific, regional, cultural nerve. But not a universal nerve. The Mid West USA was heavily settled by Germans and they maintain that culture still. That can NOT be said for the deep south, or the north west.

It seems like a two edged sword. Local interest, is well, local, and you have limited marketability. However, if you have a LOT of local interest, maybe thats good enough. So what if nobody in NYC ever sees your movie? If 5,000 people in your home town drop $5 on the DVD, simply because "their" home town is in it! I think this works for small towns, not for big cities .

Now that I recall, the ONLY reason I went to see Twilight, was because my little town of Vernonia Oregon was used for one of the locations... well, that and having 2 teenage girls! (seriously, I was one of THREE males in the entire packed theater!)


Perhaps you can capture a few thousand customers by picking a location where the community would buy the movie, just because it was made in there town!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Think about how many fantastic movies are out there that are never talked about, or are never seen in a home library, or screened at your local theater...big budget films with serious talent.

I bet there are hundreds upon hundreds...where does that leave our little micro/low budget films? What makes ours different? If those high quality movies never make it to Independence Day status...how can we plan for ours to reach that level?

I honest don't think we should sweat it. We should make the best movies we can...network them appropriately, and hope for the best. Then...rinse and repeat. Don't blow your load (excuse the term) in your first feature, and when it crashes and burns, you're burnt-out yourself.

I don't know. Have fun. Mix it up. Take chances. And for God's sake finish your film and do something with it! But when your film doesn't attract investors or awards, don't let that get you down.

One thing I will add: don't forget to send out a bunch of screeners to key DVD-review sites and get your film reviewed. It's surprising how many completed films never do this. I worked on a feature 5 years ago...it's gotten some really nice response (along with some bad), but for some reason it never made it on IMDb. It's been rejected SIX times! When I moved in to help them get it listed, I did some research--turns out it's NEVER been reviewed or written-up online. No wonder IMDb won't list it. If you're film doesn't have any write-ups or reviews...it doesn't exist.

:)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
I think the real problem is Indie resigns itself to a hapless flux of seeking external approval from fests, netflix, distribution, theaters etc etc. Fuck playing Hollywood dress-up only to lose on it’s terms!

If Indie doesn’t do for Indie, then no one else is going to. If we aren’t buying, building, creating, re-creating what will bring opportunity to us instead of us groveling at the feet of it, it will never change.
Sure a few will get lucky here and there, but it will never be enough.

-Thanks-
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Buddy Greenfield said:
I think the real problem is Indie resigns itself to a hapless flux of seeking external approval from fests, netflix, distribution, theaters etc etc. Fuck playing Hollywood dress-up only to lose on it’s terms!

If Indie doesn’t do for Indie, then no one else is going to. If we aren’t buying, building, creating, re-creating what will bring opportunity to us instead of us groveling at the feet of it, it will never change.
Sure a few will get lucky here and there, but it will never be enough.

-Thanks-
Click to expand...

tell ya what Buddy, I'd like to shake your hand on that one. Well said.

As far as festivals go, I don't have much use for them. Pay someone to watch it and say, "Oh, sorry, you suck."

I'd rather keep my 30-80 bucks and spend it on marketing...or groceries.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
hype your cast

The answer seems to be hidden in these remarks:

wheatgrinder said:
..................

Now that I recall, the ONLY reason I went to see Twilight, was because my little town of Vernonia Oregon was used for one of the locations... well, that and having 2 teenage girls! (seriously, I was one of THREE males in the entire packed theater!)

Perhaps you can capture a few thousand customers by picking a location where the community would buy the movie, just because it was made in there town!
Click to expand...

2001 Productions said:
When I got a distribution deal for my last feature (10 years ago) the distributor was very positive about the film, signed me up for 3 years, worldwide non-theatrical.

After a year and a half we mutually agreed to dissolve the contract. No matter how much they tried to convince exhibitors to take a look at it, the question always came up: "Who's in it?" The reply, of course, was nobody they'd ever heard of, so they weren't even interested in screening it.
.............
Click to expand...

Maybe the anwser is targetting teenagers with known actors. ;)
Oh wait, that is the Hollywood approach for a lot of movies.
But one might think that instead of (or next to) promoting your film, you could try to hype your cast.... :P
The next question would be how to do that...

(This is just a thought)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I think Quentin Tarantino got it right in that video clip when he says, "Make Reservoir Dogs..." I mean, if you make a super kick ass movie, it's going to practically sell itself and get the recognition it deserves through word of mouth.

If someone on here were to make Reservoir Dogs, post a trailer.... That shit would spread like wildfire. No questions asked.

I really think people lack telling a good story. They also lack a good, steady paced trailer. If you tell a good story and sell that story within a good minute long trailer. It will grab someone's interest and they will buy the damn film...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Good point Opus, but remember that if you make a kick ass trailer, you must make sure there is other kick ass material that isn't shown. Like most people put the good stuff in the trailer and the rest of the movie sucks.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
aceofspades70 said:
Good point Opus, but remember that if you make a kick ass trailer, you must make sure there is other kick ass material that isn't shown. Like most people put the good stuff in the trailer and the rest of the movie sucks.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is the case for the majority of indie films out there—they blow their wad on trailer footage. They use all the best looking stuff, and when you get to watching the full movie, you realize most of it pretty much sucks, looks awful, sounds awful…

The trick is to make your entire film look great…don’t just shoot a film haphazardly and hope to get some great shots. Instead, shoot a film that aims to look great from start to finish.

Another problem with no/micro budget films is the credits look better than the film…it’s best to try and balance things out. You don’t want super awesome opening credits…and then when the first real footage pops up it looks like dog fuck. This is another reason to shoot a good looking film…your credits shouldn’t be better than your movie, nor should they set up the audience for slick production value, only to let them down when the first shot pops up.

And yes, I agree…it’s about a good story, and a good movie. If you make a fantastic film…with or without name actors…you’re going to harbor some attention whether you like it or not. The key is to get it out there…on your own dime, or on someone else’s.

Back to the trailer bit…for the love of God, don’t make a 5 minute trailer. Please. I beg you. Make a 1-2 minute trailer that doesn’t try to sleep with me on the first date. I want to be walked to the door, kissed on the cheek, and leave wanting more. I don’t want a sloppy wet kiss and an ass squeeze from the get go…I want to use my imagination.

Anyway. Thanks.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
So, don't give away a sloppy wet kiss and an ass squeeze; make them work for the sloppy wet kiss and the ass squeeze. Got it :)

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with the whole opening credits thing. Yes, you can use the opening credits to establish a mood, but the big question is if your film speaks for itself.

We were at a talk at a festival this summer, and the speaker couldn't say enough about how, for the most part, he had no idea who the people were who were listed in the credits for most indie films he sees, and when it came down to it, he just wanted to get on to the movie - as in, forget the elaborate logo, forget the 5 minute long credit sequence, just get on with it. I agree for the most part. Some opening credit sequences can be pretty awesome. But, overall, especially if your film is a short, not much should really get in the way of the film. And if it's going to be elaborate, what's to follow should fit that bill, as well.

As for us, our latest short has, like, 20 speaking roles, so it would take half the movie to put them in the credits, anyways...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The question was asked “What can we do as filmmakers to make that
person WANT to spend 10 bucks on your dvd and watch that movie.”

Is this the answer? “if you make a super kick ass movie, it's
going to practically sell itself and get the recognition it
deserves through word of mouth.”

So that’s it? Just make a super, kick ass movie and then do
nothing because it will sell itself? I gotta tell you guys, I’m
not convinced. I’m convinced that making a super, kick ass movie
is a great thing. But there MUST be an answer for those of us you
are making really good movies that aren’t super kick ass. I need
to believe there is a way to get people to see my good movie
without relying on it practically selling itself and getting the
recognition it deserves through word of mouth.

Aren’t there really good movies out there that can’t find an
audience? That can’t rely on it selling itself through word of
mouth? Is there no ground between a super kick ass movie
and a crap movie?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Rik,

I think we've jumped around with the why's why not's and how-comes.

For the most part--I think--most of the good advice possible in this topic has already been discussed. It's not just about a kickass movie...that would never be enough (unless you're one in a million).

You have to market your work also. I think that's absolutely necessary. You have to screen your work, that's absolutely necessary. You have to get your work reviewed, that's pretty much necessary.

Do all of the concepts and ideas in this thread have to come together perfectly for your film to sell? Of course not...but having as many of these things checked-off definitely helps the chances of your film taking off.

I think it's important to start off with a solid film, with high quality production value. If you don't even have that...it's going to be nearly impossible for your film to go anywhere. I'm not saying you need a high budget...that's not what 'high production value' means...you can have a shoe string budget, but if you have a skilled team, you can create a very technically pleasing film on little to no money.

The sad truth is...most indie films suck. They look like dirt, they sound like crap, and the story and acting leave much to be desired.

It's hard enough for those of use with quality work to get recognized...let alone the hundreds of films made each year that suck to high heaven. And I find it so interesting that these crappy hackwork films are like 'Why can't we sell our movie? I don't get it...we rock!'...and I'm like...'no you don't...your film looks like piss.'

:)

First thing you want to do...start with a great script, and make a great looking film. Then worry about marketing and selling it. If you can't even be bothered to put your camera on a tripod and actually boom your actors...then you shouldn't even be *thinking* about your film 'making it.'
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Exactly, 4-5 minute trailers? Shit, I've seen the movie! No longer than a minute 30, that's all you need. Put some good stuff in there and just enough to establish the story.

And yeah, don't blow all your money on the trailer. Hell, shoot the film and use footage to make the trailer.

And I don't care how "kick ass" a movie is. If no one knows about it, they won't watch it.

Today I called 93 video stores within a 100 mile radius to see if I could sell my film on consignment. Over 70 of the numbers were disconnected, several I have to call back because the owners weren't there. One local guy told me to bring him some copies, so I did. Another store 150 miles away said yes, so they're about to get some too.



Folks, you want to know how to get people to buy your product. Well, you have to make it visible in order to do that. You've made the film, that's only half the battle.

Now you have to get back up off your ass and put it out there. You can't do that sitting at home waiting for your paypal account to grow after a few announcements.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You’re right, M1chae1, we’ve jumped around. and we seem to keep
coming back to the “make a good movie” line. I am very interested
in the original subject of this thread which makes the assumption
that a good movie has been made and asks, “What can we do as
filmmakers to make that person WANT to spend 10 bucks on your dvd
and watch that movie.”

It seems the answer to that is; “Make a good movie.”

We have dozens of threads about making a good movie. I have been
very interested in the aspect you say we shouldn’t even be
*thinking* about; and that's the marketing and selling of the good
movie.

But you’re right. This thread is now about making a good movie and
no longer about marketing the finished film. Which is too bad, in
my opinion.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top