THE IMPORTANT QUESTION

TheOpusFuller

TheOpusFuller

Alright, I'm posting this discussion in the Newbie thread because I think this is one major issue that needs to be looked at and flushed! I think the newbie section is the perfect home for what's about to be talked about. Every new independent filmmaker and every veteran should be involved in this little chit chat!

So, in my opinion, the issue that needs to be discussed here is what do we do once the film is finished.

For all you new filmmakers out there, for all you filmmakers who have been at this for years, how do you make someone give a damn about the film you have just completed. How do you make them interested enough to invest their time and money to purchase your dvd from your website and sit down and watch it!?

I think that is the question.

A lot of people, including myself make a movie. They make a damn good movie. But then it sits, collects dust and dies.

Think about it. Your name is John Doe and you just made a movie. It can be the next Pulp Fiction for all you know. But the average person out there in the world has no clue who the hell you are or what the hell your movie about. I think the important question here is how do we make that average person in the world curious as to who you are and WANT to find out and watch your movie. What can we do as filmmakers to make that person WANT to spend 10 bucks on your dvd and watch that movie.

I think this is worthy of discussion and I think all of us filmmakers Newbies and Oldies should chime in and flesh this out.

*Let's keep this DIY style. I don't want to bring in Hollywood or major distribution deals.... If you want my reasoning for this, just ask and I will gladly explain why we should start modeling our film distribution as a DIY model and stop thinking we have to rely on Hollywood to get anywhere in the world when it comes to Film distribution. :)


Thanks,

The Opus Fuller
www.theopusfuller.com
www.twitter.com/theopusfuller
 
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I find it interesting the sheer amount of indie films that are being made, but very very few of those films make it on THIS site as a marketing tendril.

It took me all of 10 seconds to Google and find this site...the key words used to find communities like this (Independent forums, Indie boards) are very easy to figure out, and this is a major resource for sharing and marketing.

Why are there not more trailers and poster being posted? Why are there not more clips of films being put up? It seems to me that by the number of digital independent films being made, and the average savvy of people, there would be a lot more examples being posted here.

Some people may not realize because of the amount of active posters, but if you look at how many people are on this site at one time, it's quite incredible...there are a ton of lurkers that people aren't aware of. That can easily translate into a spreading of your product...

I've searched a lot of independent film forums...and this is clearly the best one. I wonder why there aren't even more vids being put up...
 
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I agree with you M1chae1 this forum is surely the best forum for indie filmmakers but still we dont see lot of publicity etc. May be a major reason is that indie filmmakers arent aware of marketing and promotion?
Searching www.indietalk,com is not hard. I searched it easily on google, so the only thing which comes into mind is that indie filmmakers arent aware of Marketing importance
 
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can't make anyone like or buy your film. they either will or won't.

So, Redbox told me they don't accept indie films. scratch that.

Netflix is picky as hell from what I heard. Good luck.

No budget for advertising? Oh well. Gonna have to do it the hard way.

Hit your local independent video stores if any. (I have one selling copies for me) Send some out for reviews.

Hit the road, yes the road.

I'm leaving for Tulsa next weekend for the Underground Horrorfest. After that, I am going to drive as far as my cash and my car will take me. I'll stop anyone anywhere who will listen to me about the film.

I created a Gun Town YouTube channel to document my travels. I'll be searching for any venue that is willing to let me sell/show the film. Yes sir, I'll drive through every state if I can keep it going.

Yeah, call me crazy, but you have to be to get started in this business. Your movie isn't going to get out there on it's own. You made it, and that's only half the battle, now it's time to get it out there.
 
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TheOpusFuller wrote:
DIRECTORIK, What if you made a webisodes of you behind the scenes!? You at the drawing board working out your story. Showing us what it takes to get the shit together and get the ball rolling. Not many people get a chance to see that.

That's what I am currently trying to do with my site. I'm trying to show the steps that I am taking to make a film from start to finish with little to ZERO money.

I think the general audience out there might find it interesting considering this day and age Reality TV is pretty big. I also think fellow filmmakers, especially newbies will find it interesting because it's like film school without paying. They can see tricks of the trade, they can see you don't need a huge crew to get a shot that looks completely amazing. You can show clips and stuff from the film you are currently shooting but just enough to tease them. Little teasers!
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Buddy Greenfield wrote:
I think there will be or could be a - making of the film - series of tutorials - with a fictional storyline-
like a murder mystery that is not only the ultimate who done it, but also how they lit it when they did it, and you buy the DVD that has the movie that the series was made behind the scenes of and through that movie you find out who really did do it, and also more of how it was made.
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Oh man, as a beginner, I think those are some awesome ideas, and I hope to take a good look at your video blog, TheOpusFuller.


M1chae1 wrote:
We are so inundated with media nowa'days...it's hard to get noticed. And sometimes, it's not our time in the sun...but, sometimes it is our time. We just have to keep making films with passion and care, do all we can do, and hope for the best.
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That is a huge challenge that many smart people (like those in the newspaper business) are having a heck of a time figuring out. Even if you, we have a passion for film, who has the time to download many of them in a typical day? I, for example, have a pathetic computer and a slower connection... though it's broadband. Also, I suppose you have to seduce people into taking a chance spending up two hours (or even 5 minutes) of what life they have -just like the Big Boys and Big Girls have to do- with your film. Of course they should, but why should they? It's just that much tougher for indepedent filmmakers because we don't have the Big'nes' sometimes enormous marketing budgets. Ouch. There's the challenge.


ad2478 wrote:
To sell our product the 3 very important elements are (1) creating awareness and (2) easy access of consumer till that product (3) Pricing method of film maker
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That's some really great food for thought.

M1chae1 wrote:
Some people may not realize because of the amount of active posters, but if you look at how many people are on this site at one time, it's quite incredible...there are a ton of lurkers that people aren't aware of. That can easily translate into a spreading of your product...

I've searched a lot of independent film forums...and this is clearly the best one. I wonder why there aren't even more vids being put up...
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It's great to know that this is the online forum to be at. Actually, I don't think I found this place by googling. Instead, it's mentioned in Filmmaking for Dummies. :D
 
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Hmmmmmm....... How to answer this one...

Yes, there a lots of indie films being made. But are they really good? I know that every filmmaker out there feels that their film is great, deserves to make millions and receive Oscar nominations, but lets face it, most of them are CRAP. I've worked on an incredible number of shorts over the years as they come through my studio for audio post and 90% of them are garbage, 5% good, 4% really good and 1% great; yet most of those filmmakers felt that their project was the best ever done. Not surprisingly, the last 4% and 1% were the ones who were exceptionally prepared, knew exactly where their project was going after post was done and had properly thought through their budget for each step of the process. All of the features on which I've worked (with one exception - long story...) were at least good because I get to cherry pick those; two were award winners.

There are a few problems that are inter-related. First, there is a huge difference between making a film for personal gratification and making a film for profit. Second, so many filmmakers just want to get the film made that they end up making too many compromises, usually budgetary, that seriously degrade the quality of the final product. Third, too many filmmakers ignore the real donkeywork of filmmaking - extensive preproduction, patience on the set, thorough post-production and all of the legal & other paperwork that is needed to satisfy distributors and the other powers that be. Fourth, they have not thought about "life after the film".

The term "indie" has taken on a very different meaning than when it was originally coined. Originally the term "indie" meant films were made independently from the Hollywood studio system; the filmmakers wanted freedom from the restrictions placed on them by the corporate "suits." On their lower budgets they had to make some compromises, but their creativity overcame their limitations. These days the term indie has come to mean compromised production values - flawed scripts, bad acting, amateur technique, jumpy picture, poor editing and crappy sound.

What it comes down to is reaching an audience. If the audience doesn’t care about your subject matter your film won’t sell. If the audience can’t connect with your characters as presented by your actors, your film won’t sell. And when it comes to the technological presentation – camera & lighting technique, editing, production and post sound – whether you like it or not you are competing with “Hollywood” and major TV network productions and if you can’t compete with the least of these your film won’t sell. ALL of the above – the script/subject matter, the production values, the talent both in front of & behind the camera and the post production – is important to your audience whether they are aware of it or not; they have very high expectations and your film is not going to sell unless you meet those expectations. They don’t care about all of the handicaps under which you labored; all they care about is getting value for the product they are purchasing.
 
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Most of the time I don't buy a movie unless I have all ready watched it and liked it enough to buy it. I may have watched the movie originally at a theature or may have rented it. Or maybe a friend has a copy and I watched it. Or just maybe I some how saw a trailer for the movie and decided to rent the movie or buy. Or I know the director and have watched his previous work. Or I know the actor and take a gamble on buying the movie.

I do think the video blog idea is good. Advirtising in some form is needed. Word of Mouth advertising is good if your movie is good then people will tell their friends. I agree on production values and sound quality. If the movie is of quality that helps. You also need a good story and at least a few good actors.

I have noticed the sound of a lot of the indi films are real poor and that is one of the leading mistakes. Second the trailer is horrible for some of these and the sound is poor even in the trailer.

Is anyone doing affiliate marketing with their movies. Or how about some sort of street team. Are you doing press releases. Are you sending your film to be entered in fim festivles.

Have you tried getting your movies on itues and on amazon.com. That could be a good start. Just an idea.
 
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M1chae1 said:
Well said Alcove...I couldn't agree more.
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I agree as well. I am pretty disappointed in my last (first) film. I wish the quality of the acting was a little higher from secondary characters, I wish I had more coverage in some scenes, There are some scenes where the echo in an empty hallway wasn't dealt with well enough, many other small flaws. Overall I give it a C+. That being said, the last festival I went to I watched probably 15 shorts. Only one of them would I consider "better" than my film. There is SO much crap out there, a truly brilliant effort might rise to the top, but hard for above average to be found amongst the flood of bad.
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
I wish the quality of the acting was a little higher from secondary characters...
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Alfred Hitchcock once said that the supporting cast and the extras could make or break a film. Hitch personally was at the auditions for the supporting roles.

Gonzo_Entertainment said:
There is SO much crap out there, a truly brilliant effort might rise to the top, but hard for above average to be found amongst the flood of bad.
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No one wants to weed through all of the garbage, and that is part of the problem. How do the unnoticed exceptions get the shot they deserve? The scene is overrun with second (third, fourth, fifth?) rate festivals; being a solid piece of crap in a pool of diarrhea wins the film an award, so a film being an award winner has become a joke.

I go to several meet&greets, mixers, networking parties or whatever you want to call them each month. Yeah, it's to drum up business, but it is also interesting to speak with others about the industry in general. Over the years I have spoken to quite a number of folks who work for distributors, etc., who tell me that they are overloaded with the submissions of bad films. But the comment that I find the most interesting was that a significant percentage had the potential to be good films, but that the execution killed them.

Let's face it, even "Avatar" was not unique in concept; the story has been told many times before. It was the unique $300 million presentation that captured its audience.
 
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"Alfred Hitchcock once said that the supporting cast and the extras could make or break a film. Hitch personally was at the auditions for the supporting roles."

Rookie mistake on my part. I tried to do too much myself. Some people in key positions (wardrode director for one) failed me. As I picked up the slack for her in pre-production getting wardrobe together (and other examples of this) I neglected something I should have been more focused on (making sure I was happy with the actors in small parts). That's what it's about at this stage, the learning process. Valuable lesson learned.
 
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This is a great thread guys. Let's keep this up...

Just to chime in and touch base on what I have noticed to get some recognition and audience...

I think what filmmakers have to do the most is CARE.

Take these forums for instance. I've been giving my opinions... Why?... because they have worked for me. I've spent 3 years trying to perfect my writing so therefore I help people on the NEWBIE thread with writing. I made a film from scratch so therefore I help with pre-production tips, acting, etc.

I think there are two groups of audience.

One group of audience are people who get wind of your trailer or something and find interest in it enough to drop 10 bucks and check it out. The people who read a forum that talks about a film and it sounds interesting so they check it out...

The other group of audience are people who love the filmmaker and love their work.

In my opinion, both are great to have but if it was up to me, I want the second group and I think the only way to achieve that relationship with an audience is GIVING A DAMN.

You can't just go out and spam links to threads to hopefully make a quick sale. You have to dig in deep and really CARE. Engage with people in threads. Answering every damn question you come across from the newbie thread. Shoot out a private message and just talk to people and get to know them. I think engaging with friendly filmmakers and audience in that way is the way to do it. Those are the people who are on board with you for life...

Answer me this guys. How many people on here have twitter? AND, how many followers do you have?
 
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Going back to the original question and the comment on videoblogging:

Try and make others blog about your film. It's not always as easy as it may seem, but that way you can focus on making a good film instead of making a good blog to sell the film. Besides that some bloggers or TV-shows (just see how Oprah catapulted 'Precious') are quite infuential. There is also a hazard in this; if a big blogger writes your films is no good, you will find you get attention, but not the kind of attention you want.

Use local media like newspapers. When you live in Hollywood it's no news someone made a film, but when you live outside the "filmindustry-areas", you might get some coverage.

Send it to filmfestivals. There are quite a lot of them (it's been mentioned before in this thread), so you might have to be picky. If you feel your film is really good, don't premiere it on a festival with 5 visitors and a cow, but on a bigger festival.

To sell a film, you will need a demand for it. People only demand something they know.
Nobody was demanding a "SF about blue aliens" 5 years ago, but now they know it's there, they want to see it.
Offcourse Avatar has a big marketing budget and most of us don't.
This means you will have to put more effort in gaining exposure, otherwise you end up making a film for 2 screenings at a local festival, 1 screening for the crew and another one for friends and family.

Btw, I'm new in here and the above anwsers are ideas not yet tested by myself.
 
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Yes, publicity of any kind helps, a lot.
I got several writeups in the local media about my film. Even if it doesn't help sell that film, it ups my credibility the next time I am looking for locations, recruiting crew, etc...

I am pretty down on the festival circuit. I did get accepted to a pretty well known speciality festival for the genre, but of course a lot of rejections as well. The festival thing is only going to get tougher because of withoutabox. It's good in many ways, BUT it also has meant festivals (because of the ease of entering) are now flooded with submissions. Festivals that 3 years ago got 1000 submissions now get 5000 submissions. The pond has gotten MUCH bigger.
 
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good point Gonzo. I don't even like withoutabox because my "discount" never registered when I entered. oh well.

The Opus, I like what you said in your last post, and you're right. Building a relationship with people on forums can be very helpful, expand your network, and let people understand you better, even if they don't know you in person.
 
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M1chae1 said:
Great post Richy. Welcome to the boards. Now get an avatar up pronto, or I'm putting you on ignore! ;)
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Thanks, M1chae1, and will do, as soon as I can rustle one up. :)

Yeah, a very informative and thoughtful post, Alcove.

Alcove Audio said:
...being a solid piece of crap in a pool of diarrhea wins...
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That's good material! So, um... , Alcovey, may we like ...um, use that in our screenplays? :P Just teasing.

Opus, I think you're exactly right about caring. I might add or even substitute passion for caring.

I still think blogging is a great idea, but yeah, maybe more for sharing knowledge and networking with other filmmakers more than for marketing purposes. I think Walter is right that whether your budget is in the millions or whether it doesn't really even exist, you probaby need to pursue more conventional means of creating interest. Come to think of it, I'm not so sure how many movie watchers out there are all that interested in the nuts and bolts of how a film was made. Sure, we here all are, but maybe a lot of folks out there who do like a good movie aren't necessarily interested in the behind the scenes of one, or about the trials and tribulations of the filmmakers in getting it made.

For example, does anyone happen to know how much it costs to get one of those banner Ads by Google I see at the top and bottom of these forum pages?
 
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