Making indie films as a career?

[Scoopicman]

Sonnyboo (HORRORS OF WAR), Christian Viel (RECON 2020 and 2 sequels), Patrick Johnson (SIDE FX, SHE'S CRUSHED) and myself (WAR OF THE PLANETS, THE AWAKENING) were some of the guys who used to make money at this. SHE'S CRUSHED made enough to finance Patrick's next 2 projects. Christian had almost a million in territory sales from his movies. He made the first RECON for 30 grand and made 200K plus in sales. The next two did better.

Everything changed after the 2008 recession started. One factor was financial, the other is the continuing format shift to downloads. Now that brick and mortar stores like Hollywood Video have pretty much vanished, you need to turn to doing a good enough movie for a studio deal or see where the world of downloads takes you.

The last feature I made, EXILE (33K budget), has not made its money back. Supposedly, I get a percentage out of each download, but have not had my first pay cycle outside of direct Japan, Thailand sales. I'm crossing my fingers though. Currently EXILE is at the Playstation network (international), Igigaplex.com, Cinemanow.com, Amazon.com, etc. Anyone can download it to Iphone, Droid, Ipad, computer, Playstation, but People don't really know about movie, yet.

Income recovery often takes years to happen.

 

[Nate North]

The creators of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia shot their pilot for under $1,000 and they shopped the DVD around town and it garnered a good deal of attention. They're in their 7th season now and just got renewed for seasons 8 and 9.

There you go, 1 grand, 9 seasons.

I did hear that "Always sunny" had some originators that were closely related to Danny Devito. Many times these breakout success stories contain a hidden element, that makes them difficult to replicate based on press releases.

In the case of Microsoft, Bill Gates made his "Kingmaker" deal with IBM, that's what they tell you. What isn't often mentioned is that his mother sat on the board of directors at the time, and worked to push through a deal that he otherwise would not have gotten. Without that one deal for MS-DOS, he never would have founded Microsoft.

 

[DeJager]

Directorik,

I definitely didn't mean to sound crabby or to attack you in anyway. I might have been crabby though when I responded! Haha.

It's very possible to calculate those figures. It's very chaotic as somebody stated but companies do use those statistics and they are very valuable, which is why I/O psychs get paid A LOT of money. There are thousands of factors that go into a film's success and yes, sometimes, there are movies that defy the odds, but thats why it's important to be knowledgeable and strategic.

I will scrounge around and see if I can find any current research on this topic!

 

[directorik]

I don't think you were crabby or attacking me. I got the impression this
was an interesting discussion.

The way I see it:

The question is asked, "How much money could one make" on an
independent film.
I said there is no way to calculate that.
You said there is always an average.

Very cool! I would love to know how that is calculated. Now you have to
scrounge around to find how. No problem. It just seems to me if there was
a way to calculate how much money a movie might make that research
would be readily available. And that hundreds of thousands of filmmakers
would pay big money for that research.

I know I would. If I could find what the average profit an independent film
makes I would pay a LOT of money for that. I know there are plenty of people
out there who will make suggestions on how to make a successful film and I
also know that's just BS. Great script, great director, name actors, excellent
production value. Easy. Hell, just here in the boards we cannot agree what a
good script is. Did you see the thread about "Avatar"?

Anyway, I look forward to the research you find on this subject. That information
is something I think we would all find very valuable.

What is the average amount an independent film can make?

 

[Scoopicman]

So I was just thinking how much money could one make making indie films?.........Lets say a 25k budget film.

I really liked this answer:

Might as well be a dice game. I doubt the average is high, and even if it was high it's not very useful or practical. There's far too many variables, genre, marketing, actors, story etc.. List literally goes on.

The highest you can make? - if you have the breakout (PARANORMAL, EL MARIACHI, BLAIR WITCH, NAPOLEON DYNAMITE type) hit, you can get the 7 figure payout and development deal.

Selling a movie to SyFy used to be decent money, too. (If correct, I heard well over half a million for a feature - but that was back when they required "shot on film" stuff).

Then there were the little things like USA Network and a potential 200 + countries (though many countries can be grouped into a territory deal). See my post above for some of those examples.


I put in 48K into TERRARIUM and the accompanying self promotion. I was lucky to get that back (around 52K). A safer bet is to make a 5K movie. We did, with THE AWAKENING (made for $5,900). A lower budget doesn't mean bigger profits, but a higher budget doesn't guarantee sales either! However, you just need a sale or two to cover the expenses of the little movie. Everything else is extra.

Like I said, a few years ago you could make a living making 30K - 100K movies.

I have 3 features (TERRARIUM aka WAR OF THE PLANETS, THE AWAKENING and EXILE) that were making the rounds at the AFM film market:

EXILE and others advertised in the elevator:

Ken Foree (DAWN OF THE DEAD) watching EXILE in the Inferno suite:

Next to my WAR OF THE PLANETS poster is another indie I forgot to mention - KISSES & CAROMS (picked up by Warner Bros), which is the subject of Vince Rocca's book, "Rebel Without A Deal." THE AWAKENING is at the bottom, 2nd from the right.

 

[directorik]

I can tell you what some of the cable channels are paying and
what most of the distributors of movies made in the $25k to
$100k are paying. Maybe that's the "average" we are talking
about.

 

[Murdock]

I can tell you what some of the cable channels are paying and
what most of the distributors of movies made in the $25k to
$100k are paying. Maybe that's the "average" we are talking
about.

Yes. Tell us. Seriously.

 

[learnfilmonline]

I Shot Flipping Vegas, and the budget was low probably like 5k if that. Walked in with A DVX 100, shot a sizzle, then lions gate bought it. http://www.aetv.com/flipping-vegas/

Folks it's all about the connections, if you have them you really don't even need that much money. Yes I know well then Denny send me over a connect, well it's still not that easy, but it's not impossible.

Do you have any examples of this happening?

I know an example doesn't mean anyone else can do it - just
wondering if this have ever been done.