Making indie films as a career?

DanGoloborodko

DanGoloborodko

So I was just thinking how much money could one make making indie films? I know most make 0 and some strike it rich but average decent films that aren't huge hollywood blockbusters how much would one be looking at? Lets say a 25k budget film. Don't start with that "indie films aren't for making money" stuff because i'm fully aware of that i'm not here to strike it rich or make money at all im just curious. Don't want any confusion :D
Thanks for the help
 
DanGoloborodko said:
So I was just thinking how much money could one make making indie films? I know most make 0 and some strike it rich but average decent films that aren't huge hollywood blockbusters how much would one be looking at? Lets say a 25k budget film. Don't start with that "indie films aren't for making money" stuff because i'm fully aware of that i'm not here to strike it rich or make money at all im just curious. Don't want any confusion :D
Thanks for the help
Click to expand...

If you want to make a carreer in low budget production, TV is your game, not movies. Independent film is a notorious money looser. The real turnover in film starts at about the 3 mil level, and that's if you really know what you're doing.

I'm trying to do it also, but fair warning, a career in independent film is not for the faint of heart.

On the flipside, you could shoot a reality TV pilot for 50k that had a real chance of success. You could shoot a scripted tv pilot for 100+ and have it turn out well, dependent on genre.
 
Ah, another dreamer.. its a long way to the top, if u wanna rock n roll! ;)

Everything is doable, just got to stick with it for a long long .. long... long... long..... time...
 
DanGoloborodko said:
So I was just thinking how much money could one make making indie films? I know most make 0 and some strike it rich but average decent films that aren't huge hollywood blockbusters how much would one be looking at? Lets say a 25k budget film. Don't start with that "indie films aren't for making money" stuff because i'm fully aware of that i'm not here to strike it rich or make money at all im just curious. Don't want any confusion :D
Thanks for the help
Click to expand...
You are asking the usual, unanswerable, question. Ask: how long is a
piece of string? The answer will be the same - the dreaded, "it depends."

If you make an indie film with a budget of 25k you could strike it rich.
You could loose everything. You know that, so what, exactly are you asking?
So what is the average? Let's say the average is $30,000. Does that help?
If you can make $30,000 that means you make the movie for $10,000 and
you see a nice profit. But the average for a $10,000 budget film is likely
to be under $10,000. So where does that get us?

I wish there was an average. I wish I could go to a finance company, show
then that the average 25k indie film returns $30,000 and make that happen.
But you know that can't be the case. I know that can't be the case.

Unfortunately, an average cannot be done in this case. You could have five 25k
movies make nothing and five make $100,000. That does not mean YOUR 25k
movie will (or even should) make the average - $50,000. It means you could
loose everything or make $1,500,000.

Are you hoping there is a number someone here can give you?
 
Nate North said:
On the flipside, you could shoot a reality TV pilot for 50k that had a real chance of success.
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Do you have any examples of this happening?

I know an example doesn't mean anyone else can do it - just
wondering if this have ever been done.
 
I know the pilot for the reality show Hardcore Pawn was made pretty inexpensively, probably less than 50k. I have a friend who worked on the show when it was starting out.
 
My question is more about someone without an established prodCo
with a long list of previous credits making a pilot for a reality show
and getting it on the air. "Hardcore Pawn" was made by Richard
Dominick and financed by RDF Media Group. They have a first look
deal with truTV.
 
True. I actually didn't realize that until after I posted; I started searching trying to find out an actual budget. The story I was told was that TruTV started shipping in experienced people from out of state once the pilot got picked up, replacing a lot of the local crew. Maybe it was the ProdCo replacing people, not TruTV.
 
SinEater said:
True. I actually didn't realize that until after I posted; I started searching trying to find out an actual budget. The story I was told was that TruTV started shipping in experienced people from out of state once the pilot got picked up, replacing a lot of the local crew. Maybe it was the ProdCo replacing people, not TruTV.
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This is the way most reality series are started. Low budget pilot financed
by a prodCo with a good track record and a first look deal at a network
or cable station. If it gets picked up a larger budget is approved. I have
been a shooter on both - the initial pilot (very low pay) and I've been the
more experienced crew brought in.

I'm always looking for examples of a low budget reality pilot, made purely
on spec by filmmakers who are not connected to a distributor or prodCo
and have gotten picked up.

We all have low budget film examples - I'm looking for TV series and reality
show examples. I have a horse in that race.
 
directorik said:
Do you have any examples of this happening?

I know an example doesn't mean anyone else can do it - just
wondering if this have ever been done.
Click to expand...

Well, it's just a guestimate really. If I had to budget for a half hour reality tv pilot, I'd say around 50k. Again, depends heavily on the scenario.

I doubt Kenny vs. Spenny cost 50k to shoot. But Iron chef probably cost a great deal more.

The Batchelor was probably in the hundreds of thousands to get rolling. No wonder china wants it's money back.

I'd guess that as you say, they pour a lot more into reality shows where the pilot is picked up. But then again, you don't have to pay for it at that point.

I doubt the pilot for "Hoarders" was more than 50.

I'll do some research.
 
Dan, let me tell you bluntly right now. Its not going to happen. Ever. Play the lotto instead -- better odds.

You can do it as a hobby, but you will have to find a source of income to support this bottomless pit. Rich uncles and bedridden grandmas are nice.

Good luck.
 
directorik said:
Unfortunately, an average cannot be done in this case. You could have five 25k
movies make nothing and five make $100,000. That does not mean YOUR 25k
movie will (or even should) make the average - $50,000. It means you could
loose everything or make $1,500,000.
Click to expand...

There is always an average. I've worked with I/O (Industrial Organization Psychologists) who get paid BIG $$$ to find out information like this. Huge companies bring in IO psychologists to collect data on certain questions such as this one. You'd get your answer as well as factors that are hurting your films chances and/or increasing your film's chances at success.

It doesn't matter if there are some movies that defy the odds and make a huge splash and some that dud out. That's why people want the average. Statistics (and the average, specifically) takes into consideration the outliers that would skew your average. You can even remove those outliers (indie flicks that randomly make it huge) and get your average that way.

If I had the time I'd love to conduct research on this. All good questions. And as many stated... this is the big question that people entering this industry want to know!:cool:
 
Nate North said:
Well, it's just a guestimate really. If I had to budget for a half hour reality tv pilot, I'd say around 50k. Again, depends heavily on the scenario.
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I see where the misunderstanding is. I was asking about your "success"
statement - not about the budget. I know that one could put together a
reality TV pilot in the 50k range - I have several full, line item budgets and
I have worked on a few in that range. It was the "real chance of success"
that I was interested in. Thought maybe you knew of some success stories.
I have found it very difficult to get a reality TV even seen and I have some
pretty heavy connections.

DeJager said:
There is always an average. I've worked with I/O (Industrial Organization Psychologists) who get paid BIG $$$ to find out information like this. Huge companies bring in IO psychologists to collect data on certain questions such as this one. You'd get your answer as well as factors that are hurting your films chances and/or increasing your film's chances at success.
Click to expand...
I would love to see these statistics.

I just can't imagine how anyone could look at what has happened in the past
with independent films and make any statistical analysis of what may or may
not happen with any specific movie project. The audience is so random and
they are what makes or breaks a movie. A director who has a success with a
writer and producer and stars and studio and specific budget cannot possibly
know - statistically - that if they were to use those exact same people and
the exact same budget and the exact same marketing plan that the movie
would make the same (or close) in profit. Now take the billions of variables
that come with making independent films...

You really think there is a average return on investment of an independent
film to be found there?
 
directorik said:
I see where the misunderstanding is. I was asking about your "success"
statement - not about the budget. I know that one could put together a
reality TV pilot in the 50k range - I have several full, line item budgets and
I have worked on a few in that range. It was the "real chance of success"
that I was interested in. Thought maybe you knew of some success stories.
I have found it very difficult to get a reality TV even seen and I have some
pretty heavy connections.


I would love to see these statistics.

I just can't imagine how anyone could look at what has happened in the past
with independent films and make any statistical analysis of what may or may
not happen with any specific movie project. The audience is so random and
they are what makes or breaks a movie. A director who has a success with a
writer and producer and stars and studio and specific budget cannot possibly
know - statistically - that if they were to use those exact same people and
the exact same budget and the exact same marketing plan that the movie
would make the same (or close) in profit. Now take the billions of variables
that come with making independent films...

You really think there is a average return on investment of an independent
film to be found there?
Click to expand...

I agree it's too chaotic. Might as well be a dice game. I doubt the average is high, and even if it was high it's not very useful or practical. There's far too many variables, genre, marketing, actors, story etc.. List literally goes on. Even if you knew the average success of TV shows by genre, and picked the highest one with the probability to succeed it won't help you. Well, that's my opinion anyways.
 
Nate North said:
If you want to make a carreer in low budget production, TV is your game, not movies. Independent film is a notorious money looser. The real turnover in film starts at about the 3 mil level, and that's if you really know what you're doing.

I'm trying to do it also, but fair warning, a career in independent film is not for the faint of heart.

On the flipside, you could shoot a reality TV pilot for 50k that had a real chance of success. You could shoot a scripted tv pilot for 100+ and have it turn out well, dependent on genre.
Click to expand...


The creators of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia shot their pilot for under $1,000 and they shopped the DVD around town and it garnered a good deal of attention. They're in their 7th season now and just got renewed for seasons 8 and 9.
 
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drc said:
The creators of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia shot their pilot for under $1,000 and they shopped the DVD around town and it garnered a good deal of attention. They're in their 7th season now and just got renewed for seasons 8 and 9.
Click to expand...
This is one (I think the only) example.

Something really important to consider:
Both McElhenney and Howerton were working actors. Not big
stars, but working actors who had connections. They could
easily shop the DVD of the pilot around town because were already
in the business. Being repped by one of top agencies in town was
also a contributing factor.
 
directorik said:
This is one (I think the only) example.

Something really important to consider:
Both McElhenney and Howerton were working actors. Not big
stars, but working actors who had connections. They could
easily shop the DVD of the pilot around town because were already
in the business. Being repped by one of top agencies in town was
also a contributing factor.
Click to expand...

Yea and three of the four actors were the creators. So that saves money as well.

I was more commenting on how cheap a pilot was made for that was good enough to shop around and get picked up. But yea theres no doubt those connections helped.
 
One track I am looking at here is that Nashville is a music video production hub. Tons of them shot. I have some connections to that world. About to shoot my first low budget freebie for someone, already have a paid music video gig in the works, and if I could get hooked in with the big boys in this town you could make a living as well as finance some narrative projects.

Not what I ultimately want to do long term (and there is the trap, like doing industrials), but we'll see if it goes anywhere.
 
drc said:
The creators of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia shot their pilot for under $1,000 and they shopped the DVD around town and it garnered a good deal of attention. They're in their 7th season now and just got renewed for seasons 8 and 9.
Click to expand...

They actually said the budget for the first episode was a lot smaller, they said they had the cameras-only used two and all they really paid for were tapes. I love this show. Production value has gone up since its been picked up for numerous seasons but I love how its all basically handheld and rotating the two cameras around the actors.
 
There's a fella here in a Detroit who runs his own video production business. I think they do local access TV commercials, weddings and event videography primarily. But in his spare time he makes no budget indie shorts and has been quite successful and prolific on the regional festival level. Every year he has at least one and usually more great films that make the rounds.

This is realistic. And it might be similar to what Indietalker Sonnyboo does?

Does it answer your question? These guys earn a living, but not from the success of their indie films.
 
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