help with trying to write my very first screenplay..

[littleturtle]

i've been trying to write a screenplay the past few months but whenever i decide on a story, i decide to scrap it and write another one. anyways... i've finally thought of a story and this time i'd like to finish writing it.

i'm trying to follow the 3-act-structure but i have problems with the 2nd act. i need tips on how to make the supposed "boring" part of the movie NOT boring. how do i go about in doing this?

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

I would personally focus on the main story 1st and then consider how sub characters might flavor and color the world of the main story from the vantage point of after the fact. It can be easy and tempting (For me) to veer off into aux characters and kind of cheat on the protagonist and antagonist by creating filler that I later discover slows things down or goes too far off on a tangent or confuses the main plot or takes away from it or contradicts it and didn’t for all the effort really add anything so hot to the mix, because I didn’t have the main story worked out 1st.

But at the same time, if you have aux characters and ideas tugging at you, write them down. You never know when one will have a life of it’s own that you can get some mileage out of in that script or in another.

If you are dealing in a kind of everything converges or everything starts to unravel type of story (which is a very broad definition on my part), then depending on the amount of characters and situations and type of story, one thing you can possibly do at some point is cliff hanger or leap frog the scenes like a soap opera or novel chapters would. (So when things hit a peak or reveal something or a wife walks in to find her husband in bed… with another man! CUT TO: Other characters, bring them to a peak! CUT BACK TO: The wife that walked in on the husband, like a soap opera.

-Thanks-

 

[littleturtle]

A lot of movies have a few moments AFTER the climax to let the audience experience the emotions of what just happened. Let the audience feel it for a bit before slamming them in the head with the credits.. Some movies you need time to "compose" your self before the lights come up. The Denouement (as its called in your link) is just that.

Some movies like college comedy movies have the "what happened to them after" shots.
Or its the "ridding into the sunset" shot.
Or like in a story, you have the ".. and they lived happily ever after" line..

You dont have to do ANY of this.. is just to help you structure your story in a readily acceptable way. Stories have been around a LONG time... the physiological structures in our brains respond to story patterns. We see the world in story.

thanks.. that was very helpful.

 

[Smurfy8797]

After your first draft, pick your three most favorite scenes and cut them!

as in take them out?? if theyre the favourite scenes why in the world would you take them out of the script? im sure there is a reason but seems a bit silly to me...??
someone explain to me please.

 

[wheatgrinder]

In earlier stages of script development the STORY is the only thing that matters.

A story is not about any particular scene. If you bend your story to fit a scene then your confusing the story.

By commiting to "killing your babies" you will not ruin your story just to keep a scene that, in subsequent rewrites and other changes, no longer works "exactly" . If its a great scene it will find its way back in future drafts, but in the first drafts assume EVERYTHING is crap.



The same killing babies rule should apply all the way down the line. When your editing, and you just LOVE one take.. cut it! Do everything else and then come back and see if it still works as great as you thought it did.

Im NOT SAYING DELETE IT.. just remove it from your current mind set\attention.

 

[littleturtle]

where can i learn about office talk? i'm finding it hard to write conversations on office talk between characters because i don't know anything about it. by office talk i mean like what business people in suits would be talking about. i plan on having my main character be that young kid that recently just got out of school and all the older guys taking him under their wing sorta thing.. i don't want feel like watching american psycho for tips lol. help?

In earlier stages of script development the STORY is the only thing that matters.

A story is not about any particular scene. If you bend your story to fit a scene then your confusing the story.

By commiting to "killing your babies" you will not ruin your story just to keep a scene that, in subsequent rewrites and other changes, no longer works "exactly" . If its a great scene it will find its way back in future drafts, but in the first drafts assume EVERYTHING is crap.



The same killing babies rule should apply all the way down the line. When your editing, and you just LOVE one take.. cut it! Do everything else and then come back and see if it still works as great as you thought it did.

Im NOT SAYING DELETE IT.. just remove it from your current mind set\attention.

i understand what you're saying. it's funny.. that's exactly how i start writing stories. i think up a great scene (imo lol) in my head and write the story around it, instead of the other way around.

 

[VPTurner]

What I am about to say is solely my opinion, but I will stand by it until the day I die.

Screenwriting books such as Save the Cat, Sequence Method, etc. ARE POISON!

I wasted two years of my life reading screenwriting books for the answer, turns out, they don't give you the answer. Instead, what they do give you is a medium for one to procrastinate.

If you spend the time it take reading one of those books, you could have brainstormed and worked through your little boring part of the story.

Interesting. So you have become a successful screenwriter through no education or insight from others practicing the craft and being successful at it? Did you just "wing it"?

But you are right on one point. Books on screenwriting are a great way to procrastinate. But that should not mean one should exclude them from the toolbox. Just like any tool, they should be used wisely and productively.

 

[jrhmy]

What I am about to say is solely my opinion, but I will stand by it until the day I die.

Screenwriting books such as Save the Cat, Sequence Method, etc. ARE POISON!

I wasted two years of my life reading screenwriting books for the answer, turns out, they don't give you the answer. Instead, what they do give you is a medium for one to procrastinate.

If you spend the time it take reading one of those books, you could have brainstormed and worked through your little boring part of the story.

They're not poison. They make you aware of what doesn't work in storytelling. Everyone tries to break rules in screenwriting, which is completely fine, only you must know why you're breaking the rule and understand what it does to the flow of the story.

Still, I've never actually relied on a book to do the working for me. How did you spend two years solely on studying screenwriting books? I usually read them, know the generally accepted rules and then spend the rest of the time on the story.

 

[TheOpusFuller]

Interesting. So you have become a successful screenwriter through no education or insight from others practicing the craft and being successful at it? Did you just "wing it"?

But you are right on one point. Books on screenwriting are a great way to procrastinate. But that should not mean one should exclude them from the toolbox. Just like any tool, they should be used wisely and productively.

Well, it all depends on what you consider successful.

Did I go out and sell a screenplay to Hollywood, land representation and am now hired on as an active assignment writer? No. Then again, I have no interest in that.

Have I become successful to where I'm not staring at a blank screen wondering how I can fit my ideas into a format that a book preaches over and over again. Then yes, I'd say I am pretty successful.

And yes, in my opinion, you can "wing it" to an extent. But that's for another conversation.

I think a productive tool is watching movies and reading screenplays. Worked for me. I never had a screenwriting class yet people give absolutely amazing feedback on the pieces that I write.

 

[directorik]

Were the two years really wasted? Did you not brainstorm or write
at all while reading books on screenwriting? Perhaps the years
weren’t wasted. If you learned something it was worth it, even if
what you learned was that you didn’t need to read the books.

Poison kills. Knowledge doesn’t.

I have read several books on screenwriting. While I read I also
wrote, so the time spent reading wasn’t a waste of time. For me
anyway.

I’m not suggesting you are not entitled to your opinion. I deeply
believe you are and I respect your opinion. But saying that a
writer should spend the time used to read books, to gain more
knowledge and understanding of the craft, is “poison” is kind of
over reacting. Don’t you think?

You spent time watching movies and reading screenplay and you
found that to be a productive way to learn. Some spend their time
reading books about writing, storytelling and format. Is that
really so different? One is poison and one works?

I understand that since you have no desire to sell a script,
format is something you feel is simply what some author preaches.
But the rules of format are no different than the rules of a
baseball, soccer or football game. Format is how the writer
communicates with the many people making the movie. Those writers
can gain a lot of knowledge by reading books on format.

I don’t expect you to change your opinion. You will hold it until
the day you die. I’m just offering mine; that reading books about
any craft you are interested in isn’t poison.

I’m sorry you wasted so much time by reading books. I’m glad you
found what works for you.

 

[Jijenji]

"Find your favorite scenes and cut them"...

Sounds like not a very good thing to do IMO.

You cut scenes when they don't move the story forward.
You keep the scenes that do move the story forward.

You don't cut scenes based on whether you like them or not.

----

Re: books

They are a great tool to learn. Listen to what everyone has to say about screenwriting,
keep a lot from the good teachers and little or none from the charlatans,
and then draw your own conclusions.

Any book that says you have to write a screenplay a certain way with this or that on page __
is full of it, to be honest with you.

There are guidelines and principles, but no formulas.

I haven't read "Saved the Cat" and have decided based on what I've heard that I will not read it.
Books like How to Write a Screenplay in 21 days (or whatever it was called)
all those types of books are equally worthless.

There are several others that are very much worth reading.

----

If anyone tells you they are a successful writer without studying the craft,
learning from others, etc.

Basically, if they tell you they winged it, as someone termed it here,
I would submit they are full of crap.

 

[littleturtle]

"Find your favorite scenes and cut them"...

Sounds like not a very good thing to do IMO.

You cut scenes when they don't move the story forward.
You keep the scenes that do move the story forward.

You don't cut scenes based on whether you like them or not.

----

Re: books

They are a great tool to learn. Listen to what everyone has to say about screenwriting,
keep a lot from the good teachers and little or none from the charlatans,
and then draw your own conclusions.

Any book that says you have to write a screenplay a certain way with this or that on page __
is full of it, to be honest with you.

There are guidelines and principles, but no formulas.

I haven't read "Saved the Cat" and have decided based on what I've heard that I will not read it.
Books like How to Write a Screenplay in 21 days (or whatever it was called)
all those types of books are equally worthless.

There are several others that are very much worth reading.

----

If anyone tells you they are a successful writer without studying the craft,
learning from others, etc.

Basically, if they tell you they winged it, as someone termed it here,
I would submit they are full of crap.

but save the cat is the number one screenwriting guide book on amazon?!?!!? lol

recommend me some books then will you? some authors perhaps..

 

[Jijenji]

but save the cat is the number one screenwriting guide book on amazon?!?!!? lol

recommend me some books then will you? some authors perhaps..

Considering that 99% or more of spec scripts by unknowns are really bad,
that doesn't mean anything.

Also consider that most people like it when someone tells them
"you just have to do this and this and this and follow my formula for GUARANTEED success!"

They don't like it when someone tells them
"there are no guaranteed ways to succeed, you just have to work your ass off"

Books that I have found very helpful:

The Screenwriter's Bible by David Trottier
Or anything comparable that would be a good FIRST book, introductory.
I like this book because it one, serves its purpose as an introductory book w/ basic stuff,
but two, you can constantly refer back to it for formatting questions.

Then move on to better books:

Story by Robert McKee
By far the best book I've read on screenwriting.
My own experience here, it took me several reads of this book to feel like I was totally with it.
The first time, I learned a lot and there were other parts where I either disagreed,
or I thought what the author was saying was pointless.

I'll use an example from another thread re: subtext.
Some people have argued in another thread that subtext isn't done or shouldn't be done on purpose.
That you just do it naturally, etc. etc.

Well, my opinion is that is all nonsense.
Of course it's done on purpose.

But, 2 years ago when I first read that book, and he was breaking down scenes by subtext,
beat by beat, I ignored that entire chapter and thought "I can just do this by feel".

Well, that is the bad, amateur writer talking.
Basically, you need to kill those voices in your head if you ever want to be good.

The Poetics by Aristotle
This book taught me that everything happens as a result of something else in the story.
The common saying is that nothing in a story ever happens except through drama.
Well, Aristotle went one further and said nothing should ever happen without motivation, either.

The Art of Dramatic Writing by Lajos Egri
A sometimes rambling book,
but I learned what I know about character design from the examples in this book.
Characters must be carefully designed around a central premise if you want to write a truly great story.

-----

Also, you should read other screenplays and watch films.
Don't only do this to study style and formatting,
but take notes on the structure, and compare them to what you learn in the books.

 

[wridingrlm]

"Find your favorite scenes and cut them"...

Sounds like not a very good thing to do IMO.

You cut scenes when they don't move the story forward.
You keep the scenes that do move the story forward.

You don't cut scenes based on whether you like them or not.

QUOTE]

It depends on how you take it. Lots of screenplays I've read might have a good scene which the author likes but the scenes surrounding it are just horrible. Since this person was so tied to that scene they found any way to keep it in and killed it because the scenes surrounding it were useless. Also, what might seem incredible to you might be confusing, bad or useless to another (the person who has the ability to produce the script). Removing "your babies" from the script allows you to look at your script with a different set of eyes. Also, instead of deleting from the script, try just removing them for a while and see what you come up with. If you don't like it then place it back in. I don't recommend doing this when starting out learning screenwriting, but it can be a useful tool in the future. I once had a scene which seemed to confuse people and one friend also pointed out that it confused him. Without hesitation I said, "It’s gone." He looked at me unsure because I didn't argue back why it should stay in there. Meaning, you can’t get attached to a scene or a sequence. You need to get attached to the story.

 

[wridingrlm]

Note to littleturtle:

There has been plenty of good advice to you on this board and I hope you take whats given. But many of your questions are learned over time and with practice. If this is your first screenplay I suggest just write it the way you feel it should be done and then let others critic it. Not just friends and family but by people who have years of experience under them reading and writing screenplays. And make it a point not to say a word while they give you their feedback. Trial and error is the only way to learn, especially in screenwriting. Don't be afraid to fail.

As for learning tools, the Screenwriting Expo has some really good DVDs which explain how to help your screenplays and it's best that you search out which titles are best for you.

Good luck.

 

[finderskeepers]

Here's advice from the first writer/director to win 3 Oscars in one Night!
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000697/

Billy Wilder's screenwriting tips: *

1. The audience is fickle.
2. Grab ‘em by the throat and never let ‘em go.
3. Develop a clean line of action for your leading character.
4. Know where you’re going.
5. The more subtle and elegant you are in hiding your plot points, the better you are as a writer.
6. If you have a problem with the third act, the real problem is in the first act.
7. A tip from Lubitsch: Let the audience add up two plus two. They’ll love you forever.
8. In doing voice-overs, be careful not to describe what the audience already sees. Add to what they’re seeing.
9. The event that occurs at the second act curtain triggers the end of the movie.
10. The third act must build, build, build in tempo and action until the last event, and then—that’s it. Don’t hang around.

 

[Tankdaddy]

Hello everyone! Though I am probably the least experienced screenwriter and such, I'm hoping this could help you, littleturtle. If not, I apologize ><.

Well, reading through the thread many recommended the book "Save the Cat!" by Blake Snyder and I absolutely agree. I bought it about two months ago and really enjoyed the read. It is helpful and the best thing about it is that when reading it, it does not feel like a How To Book if that makes sense.

Another book I would really like to add to the list to check out would be "The Screenwriter's Bible: A Complete Guide to Writing, Formatting, and Selling Your Script". Be warned though, unlike "Save the Cat!" it does feel like a How To Book. But, I will say though, it did help me very much about learning what I need to know and has helped me get out of trouble, which tends to happen a lot .

Another thing I would recommend is read as many scripts as you can. Look up your favorite director, movie, or pick a considered classic in the genre your script is in and buy the script. It may help you see how that movie flows and how that writer did it, which could help you with your problem.

Though some do not like readings and like learning from other scripts and such, I like to combine both that and reading books.By reading books on the different styles of writing scripts and reading other people's scripts, it may help you come up with your own unique style of writing, which is what I try my best to do.

Well, I hoped this helped you out at all and like I said earlier in the post I'm not the most experienced, but you never know what could help.

Have a good one

 

[polfilmblog]

Oh dude. Screenwriting is utter misery.

Even if it's good, it's never good enough.

Here's a little test. Is it a movie?

Is the second act akin to Neo taking the pill, and suddenly he is dropped into The Matrix like an infant?

If not, you may have some problems. That twist is central to launching this story into the world. You could even fuck up the ending, but if you have that perfect Act 1/ Act 2 twist, you might just slide.

 

[Papertwinproductions]

What I am about to say is solely my opinion, but I will stand by it until the day I die.

Screenwriting books such as Save the Cat, Sequence Method, etc. ARE POISON!

I wasted two years of my life reading screenwriting books for the answer, turns out, they don't give you the answer. Instead, what they do give you is a medium for one to procrastinate.

If you spend the time it take reading one of those books, you could have brainstormed and worked through your little boring part of the story.

I very much agree, feel the story out yourself, I'm not saying if it's a dead-end go chasing it blindly, yet in my opinion, alike @TheOpusFuller, i would not recommend screenwriting books. Go live a little, get yourself inspired, if you're not passing the 30 page mark, or your story is lacking in the second act, get your ass out and get inspired. All these fine experienced film-makers can lead you in the right direction, show you to the width of a blade of grass the correct structure, and methods -firstly, appreciate that, to have minds alike those on the forums that are willing to help you at the tip of a hat, is something we should be immensely gracious toward. Spend your time with an open mind, fresh air and new faces, don't neglect the regulations of story-telling, but as time is of the essence, I'd suggest you live, and let the story follow.

Time does consume, if not always, most of the time.

But what do i know right? I'm just nineteen

 

[VPTurner]

I very much agree, feel the story out yourself, I'm not saying if it's a dead-end go chasing it blindly, yet in my opinion, alike @TheOpusFuller, i would not recommend screenwriting books. Go live a little, get yourself inspired, if you're not passing the 30 page mark, or your story is lacking in the second act, get your ass out and get inspired. All these fine experienced film-makers can lead you in the right direction, show you to the width of a blade of grass the correct structure, and methods -firstly, appreciate that, to have minds alike those on the forums that are willing to help you at the tip of a hat, is something we should be immensely gracious toward. Spend your time with an open mind, fresh air and new faces, don't neglect the regulations of story-telling, but as time is of the essence, I'd suggest you live, and let the story follow.

Time does consume, if not always, most of the time.

But what do i know right? I'm just nineteen

Anyone serious about the craft of screenwriting will study and learn from those who have gone before. You can learn a lot from watching movies, sure, and know what works. But you will never know why it works. And you can learn much from reading scripts and learning how to copy their style, but you are unlikely to learn how to develop your own style.

Books on screenwriting are guidelines, not blueprints, and not always "paint by page numbers". You must learn to walk before you can run. Even fledgling painters must learn how colors invoke emotion, the physics of light and how light changes colors. A photographer must learn F-stops and shutter speed and color temperature and ISO if s/he wants to become a pro. And in screenwriting you must learn to paint pictures and illicit emotions with words and write dialogue that rings true.

And if you choose not to study and learn what works, what doesn't, how to illicit an emotional response in your reader, how to dramatically structure a story that resonates on a profound level, then by all means go for it. That will just make it easier for those of us who do take the time to study and master the craft.

You are 19. I am 41. I've made the mistakes you are about to make and have learned from them. When I was 19, I didn't listen, either. And I paid the price. You will, too.

 

[Papertwinproductions]

Anyone serious about the craft of screenwriting will study and learn from those who have gone before. You can learn a lot from watching movies, sure, and know what works. But you will never know why it works. And you can learn much from reading scripts and learning how to copy their style, but you are unlikely to learn how to develop your own style.

Books on screenwriting are guidelines, not blueprints, and not always "paint by page numbers". You must learn to walk before you can run. Even fledgling painters must learn how colors invoke emotion, the physics of light and how light changes colors. A photographer must learn F-stops and shutter speed and color temperature and ISO if s/he wants to become a pro. And in screenwriting you must learn to paint pictures and illicit emotions with words and write dialogue that rings true.

And if you choose not to study and learn what works, what doesn't, how to illicit an emotional response in your reader, how to dramatically structure a story that resonates on a profound level, then by all means go for it. That will just make it easier for those of us who do take the time to study and master the craft.

You are 19. I am 41. I've made the mistakes you are about to make and have learned from them. When I was 19, I didn't listen, either. And I paid the price. You will, too.

I didn't disdain the value of reading scripts, I didn't surcome to structure and formatting out of nowhere, I have read hundreds of screenplays, drained my library of any possible literature and crafted my own thought inbetween what is eligible as the correct angle to writing a screenplay, and most of all, nurturing that vision until the final page. I am in no way, a naive young adult tip toeing his away around a desired oil painting of a career in cinema, but to say i didn't listen? To what memoirs are you sharing that are elicit to my apparent naivety?

I take in every piece of advice with each breath, i appreciate the tales and the 'what-nots' and warnings, the helping hands from the very courteous people of this forum. You may have misinterpreted my stake, i have studied beyond, and like @TheOpusFuller, the value of my years (Which may surprise you, being 19, but yes) where not as productive as they where living, instead of bartering with a book on how to truly write a screenplay. I apologize if my method is unorthodox. And no doubt, my youth will stand forefront of the discussion, at 41 i am in no way questioning your credentials, and i do with open arms absorb your opinion, even it is tastes a tad critique, it is welcomed and i am thankful. Yet, if you believe i have and will not master the craft, that i do not take warmth from profound depictions, and learning that craft, containing an audience that are yours for the length of your work, then all i can say, is it is you who has not yet mastered the craft.

I value the art of screenwriting, i am not floating on the surface trying to pick-pocket a career without hard work, i assure you, it is a constant in my life, but to reiterate, i value time to be spent living, rather than relentlessly polishing structure and method that is few and far between, learn that, do, you may impress your potential partners with a script, crisp and formatted, but if you fail to see the importance of finding inspiration, then you're simply the canvas and not the artist.