editing (editing) Feedback Requested

[sfoster]

I'm meeting with a musician this week to produce the soundtrack so I need to get picture lock ASAP.
I've gotten some really insightful comments on indietalk in the past so I think this will be helpful to me if anyone has 24 minutes to spare.

I put the unlisted video on youtube to be watched here until 5/25/20.
EDIT: 3 Minutes have been cut from that video. New version is here for now.

Note: This is not a completed film. The audio is a WIP and there is zero color grading or VFX work completed.
I'd love comments on the editing. I have in mind already what/where the music will be but I welcome input on that as well.

Thanks everyone!

 

[indietalk]

In fact in keeping with time pass titles the NH one could say:

3 hours later...

Somewhere in New Hampshire

Cut to driving, Simple.

 

[sfoster]

hey at least he isn’t polishing a turd haha

the only problem with not describing or showing the uber being followed is that people might be confused why segrim gets to the exchange spot first. But maybe I’m over thinking that part

 

[indietalk]

Yes you are overthinking. That happens all the time in movies. As long as there are reasonable explanations it is fine. And let them decide.

 

[indietalk]

A basic question you can ask yourself is. "Does this create a plot hole?" The answer is no. If it was impossible, yes.

 

[indietalk]

OR you shoot a shaky POV of him getting in an uber from inside another car. No other actor needed just show the blurry dashboard. Something like that.

 

[sfoster]

A basic question you can ask yourself is. "Does this create a plot hole?" The answer is no. If it was impossible, yes.

yeah great point. That line of thought is why I cut out the “I need to get drivers license information” from the yard sale. Now it ends with adr “you can check youcell phone if you don’tbelieve me “ “oh that’s not necessary. I’ll take the gun and ammo both “ doesn’t show that he used a fake Id but it’s a much more suspenseful note to end a scene on. And they can fill in the holes themselves

 

[sfoster]

In fact in keeping with time pass titles the NH one could say:

3 hours later...

Somewhere in New Hampshire

Cut to driving, Simple.

I don’t even need this much !!
Just two days later and he is pulling up to th e yard sale immediately. The car has a NH license plate and he exits from the back seat. It’s all implied. Currently at 18:50 holy shit man everytime I think I’m done I find more to cut.

Ive made a decision to delay the musician until I can go more than two days without making a cut. Just too much extraordinary progress being made. I cut an entire minute out of the first 3 minutes. In the last 12 hours.

 

[sfoster]

YouTube links are removed.
Thanks for helping me stay motivated and for donating some of your time. I just had a really special experience watching my film.

I put it on and about 2.5 minutes into the movie I thought “this is one of the fastest paced films I’ve ever seen in my life” and it was accompanied by a feeling of trust that I would enjoy the rest of the movie. Like I was in good hands and shit was gonna keep rolling constantly and changing the story path. Incredible .

if even a small part of my audience gets that feeling when they watch it then I will have created something special.

 

[sfoster]

instead of tracking liked posts

you could track when someone asks for help and gets it. Give some site credit to the helpers in the way that you’re awarded a trophy for 10 likes, 100 likes etc when people read a script or watch a video for someone else

 

[mlesemann]

instead of tracking liked posts

you could track when someone asks for help and gets it.

Great idea.

 

[Drowynaut55]

Oh god in this movie youre critiquing they talk about playing beer pong.
I actually recording them playing a game and insisted the camera see's them making each shot

I have 80 GB of beer pong footage hahahah

How old is this?

 

[sfoster]

How old is this?

lol i played competitive beer pong for like 8 years.
i know its not exactly popular these days but they were still planning on having the 15th world series of beer pong before this covid thing struck

giving a little shout out to my past ya know. its my film you gotta make it a little personal

 

[sfoster]

Currently at 18:50 holy shit man everytime I think I’m done I find more to cut.

16:47 now and I’m still making improvements
just added adr line “she got my mask!”

Some of my scenes became too fast ! I detected a loss of excitement by moving on too quickly

I went into the editor to let those scenes breathe and add length. Overall ended up 15 seconds shorter from somewhere else. Lol.

Some scenes are getting too short has got to be a good sign. And I still keep thinking it can’t be any shorter and it gets shorter

and I removed two sniffles thanks to IT this morning lol. Damn didn’t even realize how gross they were til they were gone

 

[Sweetie]

How far did you make it / do you like breaking bad or crime dramas?

There aren’t even any film festivals. I guess he best I can hope for is to maybe impress my family? Lol my last film has averaged less than a view a day for five years so I’m not delusional about anybody wanting to see my work

I watched the whole way through, but if I was watching for personal enjoyment, I probably would have turned it off after 30 to 60 seconds.

Yeah, Breaking Bad was a fun watch. I love heist films. Crime Dramas, not as much.

I was saying i trimmed another 90 seconds today so I’m still learning from the experience and it’s down more than 10% fat from the link you watched. So it definitely had fat still and it’s getting very close to done.

My opinion, I don't think the story will hold for that long. It needs significantly cutting (in half maybe) for the story to warrant the viewing time. If you wanted to spend the time, try figuring out how to tell the story in a much shorter time frame. In other words, don't trim the fat, gut the whole pig and see if you can get it working.

Since you're doing time pass titles you could simply say "20 minutes later"

Audiences are getting more sophisticated. I feel these techniques aren't needed unless you're dealing with an older audience. See if a plain cut will do instead of a title card. Show, don't tell. If you're making it as a stylistic choise, so be it.

One more suggestion. Cut out the on the nose more. Allow the audience to make their own reasons/motivation. You don't need to spoon feed the audience for every motivation. Unless it's critical for the story, they can draw from their own experiences and imagination. Suggest more, spoon feed less.

You can change it all in the edit if you have the coverage and are willing to put in the hard work and have enough time to do so.

Take this all as opinions. In the end, it's your project. You make the decision. You, as the director, gets to decide the fate of your film. These are the kinds of things that I'd look at/talk with the director if I were editing material like this. It doesn't mean it would work, but I'd try it.

 

[sfoster]

My opinion, I don't think the story will hold for that long. It needs significantly cutting (in half maybe) for the story to warrant the viewing time. If you wanted to spend the time, try figuring out how to tell the story in a much shorter time frame. In other words, don't trim the fat, gut the whole pig and see if you can get it working.

Well lets see.. you watched something that was what.. 23-24 minutes?
Its at 16.30 now if you dont count the added title cards so saying to cut it in half is a overly aggressive but not too far off i guess.

Im not gonna get a 15 page script in 12 minutes unless i just start at the end and then its not even a story its just an action sequence

More like cut 30% out and its good to go.
Your feedback coming really late but I will take into consideration if i can just drop those title cards.

I'm using ADR to explain more stuff to the audience.. i think they need it

 

[sfoster]

Thanks for challenging me sweetie. 15 minute run time now

 

[Sweetie]

I'm using ADR to explain more stuff to the audience.. i think they need it

One of the best way to determine that is to get a fresh set of eyes and ask.

Im not gonna get a 15 page script in 12 minutes unless i just start at the end and then its not even a story its just an action sequence

More like cut 30% out and its good to go.

Remember, in the edit, there's always more than one way to tell your story. The script is only a blueprint to what was intended on being shot. The limitations are only in your ability, imagination and determination. I wouldn't be surprised if you got it down to a nice 8 mins or 9 mins film in the end. I wouldn't be shocked if it got down to sub 8 mins.

Cross cutting story with future and past, out of context edits, better timed delivery of info etc.

I'm not 100% sure if can be done, since I've only seen the one edit and don't really know what's on the cutting room floor. Some people say editing is like putting together a puzzle. It's more like Lego. There's so many pieces and you get to pick and choose whether you use those pieces as intended or come up with something wonderful that may not have been intended.

Thanks for challenging me sweetie. 15 minute run time now

Glad to be of assistance.

I'm sure there's a lot of improvements you can still do. It just comes down to when you're happy with the result and you call it a day. The big benefit you have... you don't have a deadline, you don't have other decision makers pushing you. You can make it the best story you can.

The funny thing with editing. The better you become as an editor, the better equipped you'll be to make decisions next time you're on a film set. Especially if you're hitting a time crunch. Knowing what shots always hit the cutting room floor, when you need to go for another take, when you need some sort of cutaway just in case the performance doesn't work as well as hoped, what is dynamic, what is bland, what shots look great, what cuts together better, what are the important shots you must get etc.

Anyway, good job getting it to 15 mins.

 

[sfoster]

The funny thing with editing. The better you become as an editor, the better equipped you'll be to make decisions next time you're on a film set. Especially if you're hitting a time crunch. Knowing what shots always hit the cutting room floor, when you need to go for another take, when you need some sort of cutaway just in case the performance doesn't work as well as hoped, what is dynamic, what is bland, what shots look great, what cuts together better, what are the important shots you must get etc.

Anyway, good job getting it to 15 mins.

There is more too it than that... because i dont have a ton of experience editing i'm learning a lot from this.
The longer i work on it the more i see, and the more i learn.

Maybe not every single movie needs to be worked to perfection.. but i think at least SOME should be worked to perfection if you want to explore your capabilities as an editor. Also its informing my writing as well which is the most important thing. Really trying to expand my comprehension about concise and clear story telling.

This is likely the last medium length film I will ever make.. So I would like to get it to the point that when i watch it i'm not just constantly seeing shit i want to change.

 

[Sweetie]

The longer i work on it the more i see, and the more i learn.

This is the reason I'm pushing you on this.

Maybe not every single movie needs to be worked to perfection.. but i think at least SOME should be worked to perfection if you want to explore your capabilities as an editor. Also its informing my writing as well which is the most important thing. Really trying to expand my comprehension about concise and clear story telling.

You'll always end up hitting a wall where the limit is your abilities and creativity... but there's another part of it. Most editors fall victim to being too familiar to the material. Sometimes you need to put it away in a draw for a peroid of time and come back when you'll have fresh eyes. Some editors can do it without putting it away for time, but those are few and far between.

Editing is never about perfection. It's about feeling. Perfection insinuates there's is only one correct way to edit the material.

Clear and consise story telling is what editors need to learn. It's tough because someone else has chosen the ingredients for you to use. It's part of the reason why ex-editors make good script supervisors.

Editors usually grow when they come across a project that they really want to make good and spend the time figuring out solutions to problems. Those solutions stay with you in your toolbox. You use them in future projects. It's worth taking the time working out these techniques.

This is likely the last medium length film I will ever make.. So I would like to get it to the point that when i watch it i'm not just constantly seeing shit i want to change.

Reality check: You're never going to get to that point. From what I can tell, in this post production, you've grown as a filmmaker. You're more experienced than when you shot it. If given the chance, I'm sure you'd shoot the material differently. You're going to learn more as you grow as a filmmaker. You're going to grow. You're going to get better. When you look back at your older material, you're going to know better ways to do it.

This is why I'm a big fan of newer filmmakers making micro shorts. It can shorten the learning curve. You can learn a lot (not all) of the same lessons in a 1-2 minute film that you can in a 20 minute film. That being said, there are lessons you can only learn from longer productions/shoots.

One last thing for you to think about. Consider editing other filmmakers projects. Asking more experienced filmmakers if you can edit their project, even after they've compelted post production. You can learn what works and what doesn't. What other directors and editors do. If you get the chance, watch and compare the other editors rough cuts. A big eye opener for me was seeing how polished some experienced editors make their work coming close to their final cut. I've seen projects where the audio was better in the editors version than after (the inexperienced or rushed) post audio had their way.

 

[indietalk]

At some point you have to, what I call, "sign the painting." I'm not sure if anyone has coined that before but that's one of my exercises.

Sign the painting means you are calling it finished and it is ready to sign. Tomorrow is a different story. You will look back and wish you had done something different. Could you change it now? Yes you could, but you have already signed the painting so you do not.

You have to, at some point, sign the painting and realize it for the art it is. It exists as a piece you created and released at a certain time and you don't touch it again. You move to the next.

It's an exercise in restraint but also good for the ole noggin to stop obsessing. It feels good.