China rips RED facists.

chilipie

Pro Member
indiePRO
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Complete vaporware until they show off some actual footage. That being said, I wouldn't be completely shocked to see a camera with those capabilities at that price point in the near future.

Exactly. Will be very interesting to see how it compares to similarly priced cameras though.

(No matter what we think of RED as a company, do we really have to call them fascists?)
 
Worth noting that it's only 2K, where RED can do 3, 4 or now 5K.

And fascists is a little harsh. Supposedly the whole reason that they started was to make a camera like that affordable and give the big name "fascists" a run for the money haha. You may not consider 30-50k affordable, but compared to the $100k and and up competition (even more when RED first released) that's pretty stinkin great.
 
Ehhh.

Only 2k, and such a small range of FPS options? I'm not sure if this camera is aimed at a particularly large market. If you have that kind of money to spend on a camera, why not just rent the superior RED options for much less?
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
Please explain how RED are Fascists.

As probably the biggest proponent of RED on this forum, I have to say,

Yeah, they kind of are. They have plenty of reasons for it, some good, but generally this is not a very friendly company.

For one thing, they posture. Gen-X cool takes a definitive front seat to customer service, at least on the sales side, Rich or famous people have frequently bumped the orders of those that have been on waiting lists for 6 months. Advertising is rarely accurate, most sales people are disinterested and apathetic, Attitude, orginization, sales presence, etc was basically terrible at the NAB booth. The most common answer you'll get to any sales question is a shrug, and a "Whatever dude".

You have to buy all RED gear to work with their camera (sound familiar apple fans?) It's all insanely overpriced except for the camera body itself, which is the only price they advertise(with the exception of lenses). ($750 for a bicycle grip?)

They will sell a rich person a camera right now for an extra 20k, but are telling everyone else to wait until next year, including many that have waited over a year already. They WILL kick you off the forum for saying much of anything they don't like. RED is also the only company I've ever run across that won't give even a 1% discount, on anything, ever.

The actual product is the only truly great thing about RED. If there was one single competitor that offered something of similar caliber in the price range, I'd have switched companies in a split second. Truth is, they are way ahead of the competition. I can upgrade my camera to near an IMAX camera for 6k next year (or so they say, kind of)

Sony on the other hand was really helpful and willing to work with me. Great support team and great willingness to work with me. Too bad their equivalent camera is $230,000.

Arri is also medium friendly, but you'll need 110k instead of 60 for the RED, and it wont do the higher frame rates.

RED knows they are the only game in town, and in my opinion, it hasn't humbled them too much.

The only people at red I really liked were Jim himself, and a guy named LJ kim. These two seem like hardworking professionals with respect for others. Above all though, the positive that keeps me with red is that with all their overpricing of accessories, they still come in at half the cost of the alternative, and have a better camera, and better upgrade system.
 

Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
Other cameras than DSLRs?!??! SHUT UP!

Jokes aside- not sure what everyone's problem with facists is.

It advocates the creation of a totalitarian single-party state. Fascists seek to purge forces, ideas, people, and systems(read:kill/torture) deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration, and to produce their nation's rebirth based on commitment to the national community based on organic unity, in which individuals are bound together by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.(racism) Fascism promotes violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality. Fascists believe that a nation requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong. Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition to the state. It exalts militarism as providing positive transformation in society, in providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character, and creating national comradeship through military service. Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violent attacks on opponents, or to overthrow a political system.

Need I go on??
 
Aside from the irony of "China takes on Fascists" You'll note that this camera body is 14 pounds, shoots 2k only, and does not seem to have overcranking/undercranking options. So even just by the specs, this is a much lesser feat of engineering the the 5lb 300fps 5k epic.

This unit is just the first troops hitting the beach. Full invasion forces just offshore.
They need a better promo video though. Olivia should do it. http://oliviatech.com/
 
It advocates the creation of a totalitarian single-party state or camera company. Fascist Camera companies seek to purge forces, ideas, people, and systems(read:kill/torture) deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration, and to produce their nation's rebirth based on commitment to the national community based on organic unity, in which individuals are bound together by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.(racism) Fascism promotes violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality and feature films that don't make money. Fascists believe that a nation or camera company requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong and cameras selling. Fascist governments and camera companies forbid and suppress opposition to the state or criticism of the camera company. It exalts militarism and RAW footage as providing positive transformation in society, in providing spiritual renovation, education, instilling of a will to dominate in people's character, and creating national comradeship through military service and film school. Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations like the ASC for violent attacks on opponents, or to overthrow a political system and other camera companies.

Need I go on??

Excellent. Perfect description of RED. +1
 
Excellent. Perfect description of RED. +1

I would disagree. The Red line of cameras seem to fill a nice niche between prosumer and pro cameras. As Nate has pointed out, his set up is around 50 thousand. That fall in between prosumer/low end pro cameras and high end kit like the Panavision that you can only rent. To me they seem more capitaliust than fascist. As for their forum: I haven't investigated, but if its for them, by them, why would they want to let negativety have free reign. They are trying to sell a product. Also, if its for Red lovers, why would they want someone raining on their parade.

If china (authoritarian communists) can put out an equal product for a lower price, then Red would be forced to re-evaluate in stance/pricing. But I can tell you from experience working with equipement that costs $500k and up, that every piece of chinese equipment I've had the displeasure of working with, never performs to the level of its American/European counter part. They always claim the same stats but when you put them under load/work. They have always performed poorly. Just my exp. for what its worth, and like I said this is machinery costing $500,000 and up. So I wonder what you get for whatever they are asking???
 
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Nate North

Business Member
indieBIZ
I would disagree. The Red line of cameras seem to fill a nice niche between prosumer and pro cameras. As Nate has pointed out, his set up is around 50 thousand. That fall in between prosumer/low end pro cameras and high end kit like the Panavision that you can only rent.

I think I misspoke, so just to clarify, my camera cost 65k with no lens or tripod. Then another 110k for a set of cine primes, then 3k for a tripod, then 8k for stedicam, and on and on. By the time you are really ready to shoot, you should have around 200k of stuff in terms of camera and supporting hardware. Fortunately I didn't have to buy all of it. I think I was talking about savings vs a dslr, which once equipped with a cheap cine zoom, will still cost you 15k.

Not to argue, but the Epic is better than an F23. It's price may be between pro and prosumer camera, but it's quality is better than most pro cameras, meaning it is the real deal.

James Cameron is shooting Avatar 2 with Epics, and Peter Jackson is shooting The Hobbit with Epics. Obviously those two guys have their choice of any camera in the world.

That's what's so great about it. It's a pro camera, at a prosumer price.
 
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Make no mistake, no camera in the RED line is prosumer.

My definition 'prosumer' has to have a consumer market as well as a professional market and there is no consumer market for the RED cameras- certainly not at 200k.

If there was then Warren Buffet would have some tasty looking home videos.
 
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