Brain Storming Ways To Make Shorts Profitable

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all right, so far Iv only heard proof that you cant make money with direct sells. Is that it? Is that the best the IT brain trust can come up with? Brain storm folks, 'cmon throw it out there, no matter how silly! Lets see some creativity applied to the problem and cut back on the whining..
 
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If you expand your definition of shorts, people do make money. Commercials are shorts. Shows like Saturday Night Live is a bunch of shorts tied together with a theme. There are contests where you can win cash prizes for shorts and many have no fees. There are short promo pieces for companies.
 
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This might help a little bit

Hello,

First off, I'm sorry to say this isn't a way to make your shorts profitable, however, I think I can help you get a lot more views, I've just launched a little startup and we've got no money :)

I totally apologize if this comes off as spam, it really isn't.
This is my LinkedIn profile : http://www.linkedin.com/pub/karam-lakshman/17/358/bb9, and you can Google me with http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Karam+Lakshman

My startup is Eckod.com and its a simple, powerful service.
As the name Eckod implies, its a tool that allows people to repeat what you're saying.

My friend just finished shooting his first Indie-film, he used my platform and got about 700 views in just a few hours.
I know 700 doesn't sound like a lot, but hey, its a start.
This is the trailer to his film : www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDvqaGpScpE

Think of Eckod.com as the opposite of Twitter.
On Twitter, when you say something, a million people could listen to you.
On Eckod.com when you say something, a million people could say it with you.

How does this help you?
Step 1.
Create a feed on Eckod.com

Step2.
Get friends, family and fans to Ecko your feed.

Step 3.
Whenever you post something on your feed, they'll ecko it on their social networks.

Why does Eckoing something help you ?
When your friends Ecko your posts, all their friends are going to see it too!
Think of it this way, all you're doing is getting your friends to tell their friends about your amazing kickstarter.

The average number of friends that someone has on facebook is 330 people.
With each friend you inspire to Ecko your feed, you're reaching at least 100 of their friends.
The more number of people that hear about your film, the higher the odds are that you'll reach your goal.

Eckod.com is 100% free. It will always be free because we think its a valuable service that everyone should have access to.

My email address is karam@eckod.com, I'd be more than happy to help you set up an Eckod feed and promote your Kickstarter in anyway that I can.

We do not make any money whatsoever off your kickstarter, we will never ask you for money. All we're doing is trying to get our startup exposure.
If you do use our service and you like it, hopefully you'll tell others :)

Thanks again for reading this,
Karam Lakshman
Co-founder, Eckod.comq
 
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So..... I think it might be good to note that you can read AMAZING short stories and novels for free as well.... This isn't just a short film problem.

Have you ever heard of Wattpad? It's quite remarkable and at least for me it has been a reason to end all my subscriptions to publications of short stories. I believe eventually sites like Wattpad will easily replace magazine publication of short stories completely. The viewer base is technically larger online than with a web magazine anyways.

So I don't really think a short story getting a fan base large enough to make a short film profitable is possible.

Better ways to go? Sponsorship, Kickstarter, YouTube (is it true 30,000 views you get paid 300$? Someone said that.), etc...

What is wrong with trying your luck at numerous film festivals?
 
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SkyCopeland said:
So I don't really think a short story getting a fan base large enough to make a short film profitable is possible.
Click to expand...

I think you're right in that on it's own it's not enough to make a short profitable. It's possibile though that it could be one component in building an audience on an ongoing basis to eventually make some of your short films profitable. But again that gets back to the idea of building a franchise property over the long term, which seems to be the most likely route to some sort of profitability.

Better ways to go? Sponsorship, Kickstarter, YouTube (is it true 30,000 views you get paid 300$? Someone said that.), etc...
Click to expand...

There's no easy formula for youtube views == $x in ad money. It depends a lot on the ads themselves, and what the sponsors are willing to pay per view, which is therefore dependent upon the subject/content of your video. In my case, with a short running documentary, 30k views translated into only about $30 in ad revenues. Now technically, that's 'profitable' because I didn't spend any money on making the doc... but in reality it's not enough money to offset the effort needed to make the film, so it's not sustainable.

It's possible you could do some research on what ad subjects are most profitable per view, and then build videos with content that matches those keywords. But then you still need to figure out a way to get enough people to watch your video...

What is wrong with trying your luck at numerous film festivals?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that, except that it doesn't really have anything to do with profitability. Likely the opposite, in fact, considering entry fees.
 
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ItDonnedOnMe said:
Apple had about 275,000 registered developers last year. Many of those are individuals making apps in their spare time, and many are independent game developers. 'Startup expenses' for developing an iphone game are currently $99 to register as an apple developer, plus the cost of your computer, so there are a lot of people giving it a shot - it's certainly cheaper and easier than filmmaking.
Click to expand...

did anyone else find this funny, or was it just me?
good old hubris.

the game market is extremely cut throat, and often times software is not a simple and straight forward thing.

people who have no idea what they're getting into when they decide they want to enter the field.
they make a game and lose all their money
for example: curt schilling

pulling off a successful, bug free and engaging product for nearly any game takes a ton of persistence and dedication. just like getting a perfect script, even after it's finished it's still not finished. people don't realize how much time and money quality software takes, you can be left with a steaming pile that cannot be released, or keep toiling years and years and require additional investment.

One duke nukem game was worked on for over a decade before they finally released it!! at a cost of $100 million, Starcraft II was worked on by an enormous team for 7 years, coding, testing and balancing before it was released. To much disappointment. of course blizzard can afford it, they have their cash cow 'world of warcraft'

software is my day job, but certainly not the game industry.
people work for peanuts there just to be involved with games
 
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my plan to make a short profitable ..
establish a brand and reputation for producing awesome films!

get nominated for a couple awards, maybe win one or two.
write myself a feature length script and go to kickstarter

the shorts are my means of getting all that investment money, not the end goal themselves.
you should not waste your time just directing shorts.

ask Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck.. he wasted his time on shorts for 7 years before he moved on to feature films. The Lives of Others. The Tourist. Doing great for himself now
 
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It's not spam. But, just getting views does not mean the filmmaker will get a loyal fan base ready to spend money on their films.

That is why the cross-platform product development we are talking about will create the fan base.

For the series I am developing for example, there are like 14 lead characters and a lot of story elements covered in a short period of time. I have a knack for writing dense stories packed with information as readers have told me from my vampire books. I am using that style with my prequel to the pilots film and in the scripts for my two pilot movies. With so much material, lots of short stories and novels can be written.

I find traditional reading fans can be very loyal. I just got a fan letter this year asking for new stories in my vampire book series. The books came out in 1996 and 1997. These days, even some posters here are only interested in seeing FREE movies and videos. Filmmakers cannot survive making movies to be shown for free.

CreateSpace is a good friend to Indie filmmakers helping us to distribute and market our films as VODs where we can make some money.
 
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sfoster said:
did anyone else find this funny, or was it just me?
good old hubris.

the game market is extremely cut throat, and often times software is not a simple and straight forward thing
Click to expand...

Hubris? Hardly - I just said it was cheaper and easier to get started, not to make a successful game. I'm well aware of the amount of work it takes to develop good software. But I'd wager there are more solo developers making and distributing games with some success than solo filmmakers doing the same...

people who have no idea what they're getting into when they decide they want to enter the field.
they make a game and lose all their money
Click to expand...
people work for peanuts there just to be involved with games
Click to expand...

Hmm, sounds pretty much exactly like the film industry.

sfoster said:
my plan to make a short profitable ..
establish a brand and reputation for producing awesome films!

get nominated for a couple awards, maybe win one or two.
write myself a feature length script and go to kickstarter

the shorts are my means of getting all that investment money, not the end goal themselves.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan... and pretty much just like everyone else's plan these days. What makes you think you'll be any different than the rest? Perhaps a little... hubris?

you should not waste your time just directing shorts.
Click to expand...

From a business perspective? There are a few independent producers doing pretty well specifically with shorts on youtube, so there is a busines case to be made for them - and it's not like profitability is assured or even likely with features. Or do you just see shorts as a waste of time from a filmmaking perspective? Are features the only legit form of filmmaking?
 
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from a business prospective yes.. there is a lot more money to be made in feature films than in short films. whats the most money a short film ever made?

if you just want to create art, you can be a filmmaker and work on shorts all day. but if you want to reach a wide audience with your message, then i'd say buck up and go to features
 
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SkyCopeland said:
So..... I think it might be good to note that you can read AMAZING short stories and novels for free as well.... This isn't just a short film problem.

Have you ever heard of Wattpad? It's quite remarkable and at least for me it has been a reason to end all my subscriptions to publications of short stories. I believe eventually sites like Wattpad will easily replace magazine publication of short stories completely. The viewer base is technically larger online than with a web magazine anyways.

So I don't really think a short story getting a fan base large enough to make a short film profitable is possible.

Better ways to go? Sponsorship, Kickstarter, YouTube (is it true 30,000 views you get paid 300$? Someone said that.), etc...

What is wrong with trying your luck at numerous film festivals?
Click to expand...

You cannot run a successful crowd funding campaign without a loyal paying fan base to support you.

We are looking at all avenues that can increase the fan base to make small film business profitable instead of a hole in the pocket.
 
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sfoster said:
from a business prospective yes.. there is a lot more money to be made in feature films than in short films. whats the most money a short film ever made?

if you just want to create art, you can be a filmmaker and work on shorts all day. but if you want to reach a wide audience with your message, then i'd say buck up and go to features
Click to expand...

The difference in budget is why filmmakers here make shorts.
 
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sfoster said:
if you just want to create art, you can be a filmmaker and work on shorts all day. but if you want to reach a wide audience with your message, then i'd say buck up and go to features
Click to expand...

The problem is we're now talking about three different, but interconnected things:

1. Creating Art
2. Reaching a Wide Audience
3. Being Profitable

It's possible to do all three, but very difficult - it's more likely to be one of those 'pick two' things. But from the perspective of shorts vs. features I'm not sure it's any easier to achieve any of these with features. Is there more upside in features? Absolutely - but that also comes with a big potential downside, and most features aren't profitable. As for reaching a wide audience - it's a lot easier (and probably more likely) to reach say 10,000 people on youtube with a short than it is to reach that big an audience with a feature in any medium. That doesn't necessarily mean your short turns out profitable - because reaching a wide audience is only one component of profitability, not a solution to it.

And again the issue is clouded when we just talk about "profitability". If you make one dollar more than you spend on a film you're technically "profitable". That doesn't mean you can pay the rent though.

What I think we should be focusing on instead is "sustainability" - the ability to make enough money to keep making films on an ongoing basis. I think there's arguments to be made for both shorts and features in that discussion, but the key point is that we move away from whether a single project is profitable to a longer-term viewpoint of how to build a profit over a series of projects. To me that discussion has to start with shorts and possibly (although not necessarily) builds to longer-form work.
 
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in order to do that you have to establish a brand and reputation of quality.

if tarintino said he was going to make a short and sell it online, he probably could get away with it. people would still buy it and watch it, because he ha proven himself in those peoples eyes
 
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Actually, you need a product that just captures enough interest of a certain market to support its' production as a business. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder in film. Captivating characters a group can relate to will get a fan base together.

"You can't please everyone" is so true in this business. There are too many diverse groups, cultures, religions, and politics to please everyone. Even in film a certain amount of quality is also up to the eyes of the beholder. Some people may like what others consider trash. We have to know the marker we are looking to enter.
 
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There is no market for direct sales of shorts. There are just too many great free products to compete with. Sure, you could find exceptions, but established filmmaker could sale views to a short, but a non-entity isnt going to get there, regardless of how great the quality of the short.

Shorts have to make money other ways. If someone pays you to MAKE the short, then its profitable right?
 
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sfoster said:
...

ask Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck.. he wasted his time on shorts for 7 years before he moved on to feature films. The Lives of Others. The Tourist. Doing great for himself now
Click to expand...

So, do you think that he could have made those movies without making shorts for 7 years?

Do you also think it's a waste of time to train for years to win the Olympics? ;-)

Or is there any chance that training and getting experienced is one of the elements that will help you to gain success?
 
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