Besides making shorts in series for web series and possible independent TV series on small cable networks, how else can shorts be made for profit?
Brain Storming Ways To Make Shorts Profitable
- Thread starter Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC
- Start date
When the short story version appears in magazines, the fan base grows to the point where profit is possible. That is what you are not looking at. Since the short story version is the story in another media, it is being adopted as a short story and the audience will discover a whole new angle about the characters as they get more into their heads with less visualization. Lots of people like novels more than film for that same reason.
Right, so you've come up with a way to make... short stories profitable? I thought we were talking about short films. None of that explains why people - the general audience - who haven't shown any real interest in paying for short films, would suddenly decide to start doing so.
In fact I expect there's far more profit potential in short stories than there is in short films - because there seems to be a market for them. Things like Kindle Singles have proven quite profitable for some independent writers. I suspect exploring why that is so when short films aren't able to do the same thing could be an interesting exercise.
But I also suspect the only effective way to make a short film profitable via short stories is to use the film, given away for free, as a commercial for the short stories that are available for purchase.
Your standard non-sequitur.
My approach is not so hard to follow. Write enough short stories on the film series to build up the fan base of paying customers to invest both in short films and crowd funding campaigns to eventually fund features. A paying fan base is the heart and lungs of both studios and Indie filmmakers.
Our friend Rayw likes to point out the myth of make a film and audiences will come to newbies. We have been wrestling with how to put that fan base together. I am using a recommended technique for people to get fans to break the ice to lead to funding.
Merchandising is the way to go with film. That includes short stories to help sell short films.
A lawyer is recommending a financially suicidal approach that I hire a famous comic book artist to make a four color comic book of my film and try to sell it.
Not even DC Comics and Marvel Comics want to stay with four color comic.books because of the printing costs. They are pushing ebook comics these days.
Short stories involve little risk and magazines pay writers to print their stories. I just need a trustworthy lawyer to read over a publisher's contract and advise me if their terms are acceptable, as science fiction writers are advising me on a forum.
This idea may take a little research & maybe cost unless your familiar with computer game design. Why not try and get an officially licenced game for a retro console? I don't know how much Nintendo would charge for a game dev licence for the NES? but if you can make it 'official' get on the blower to retro games magazines, blogs etc getting them to cover the game and in turn your short. Hell, even mainstream media might pick up on it too
I can try a game, AFTER the short stories circulate to build a fan base. No game company will invest in a film with no fan base.
There is sound logic in building a fan base before doing anything else. A studio does not invest in story material and characters without it.
When the short stories will be printed, I can take out quarter page ads to promote the short with links to the trailer and where the VODs are available.
There is sound logic in building a fan base before doing anything else. A studio does not invest in story material and characters without it.
When the short stories will be printed, I can take out quarter page ads to promote the short with links to the trailer and where the VODs are available.
Assume you cant charge for watching the short film? What then?
Its an open source question facing all purveyors of digital content (software too!)
How will indie bands make money when their product is free online?
How do linxu software companies make money giving away operating systems?
How will big film companies make money when we Americans finally give up our ethics and just download pirated movies like everyone else in the world!
Consider the on going efforts to "fix" the issues above..
Live Performance ?
Merchandising ?
Advert pennies ?
Support contracts ?
Premium content ?
Its an open source question facing all purveyors of digital content (software too!)
How will indie bands make money when their product is free online?
How do linxu software companies make money giving away operating systems?
How will big film companies make money when we Americans finally give up our ethics and just download pirated movies like everyone else in the world!
Consider the on going efforts to "fix" the issues above..
Live Performance ?
Merchandising ?
Advert pennies ?
Support contracts ?
Premium content ?
I agree 100%. Except I think it has nothing to do with how to make shorts profitable, which is what I thought we were supposed to be brainstorming here. You're talking about ways to build a fan base to create demand for and hopefully fund larger projects.
personal networks (fan base) have value in of them selves..
Some interesting stuff here..
http://news.doddleme.com/news-room/can-filmmakers-really-make-a-living-on-youtube/
here is the video embedded in the story above..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcR0gv7EpUo
Some interesting stuff here..
http://news.doddleme.com/news-room/can-filmmakers-really-make-a-living-on-youtube/
here is the video embedded in the story above..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcR0gv7EpUo
that's some pretty good info there wheat! perhaps if you did some research into how much youtube pays per view (I think it's something like $300 for 30,000 views?) weigh up product placement & in movie adverts, look at youtubes own advertising service, see how that affects your view rate. When I had a look last, it said for $20 campaign they 'estimated' 3-7000 views. It's definitely possible to make shorts profitable.
I guess it comes down to how committed you are to succeeding. Work your ass off promoting & advertising
I guess it comes down to how committed you are to succeeding. Work your ass off promoting & advertising
I am very familar with the short story market, and the idea of an unknown writer producing a short story that sells that sells to a popular magazine is laughable.
No previous publications, no agent.
No literary agent, no way major editors will even look at it. Especially science fiction, of which there are tens of thousands of amateur writers.
It takes years of hard unpaid work to get noticed as a writer in any genre, and the paying market for short stories is shrinking.
No previous publications, no agent.
No literary agent, no way major editors will even look at it. Especially science fiction, of which there are tens of thousands of amateur writers.
It takes years of hard unpaid work to get noticed as a writer in any genre, and the paying market for short stories is shrinking.
You do the story of the first Star Wars movie? The business plan was not to base all the profit from box office sales. Merchandising played a key role in its' profit. Games, lunch boxes, game cards, toys, coffee mugs all are part of its' profit. Short stories is part of the merchandising of the product for short films with the added feature of building the fan base.
As much as people are criticizing they see no way of making shorts profitable in this thread, very few of us are actually coming up with viable suggestions. I like some of WheatGrinder's suggestions as well.
There is a big debate thread on LinkedIn about the future of film distribution with big budget studio production in that their days are numbered for some of the reasons WG mentioned.
The best suggestion I was given was the short story version of the film being sent out to magazines of the same genre. Fiction magazines are always willing to pay for new and interesting content to give their readers something new. Some even work with authors to get excerpts from best selling books in the genre to sell a few extra issues of their magazines.
I believe the future of film will be on line with customers who subscribe to content providers.
Although I can see an avenue for films being subscription based I think you're a little off the mark with your comments in regards to no one offering any viable solutions. You've had suggestions from many people here outlining various points which could work to make shorts profitable you just didn't seem to listen because you've got your mind set on making these short stories.
As its pointed out directly above, the magazines and editors you are talking about wont accept your work because you aren't known of have a agent who can get you those deals. What would be your back up plan when in a few years you still haven't got anywhere with the short stories and your short is gathering dust? I don't want to nit pick but in a sense what you're proposing may make a short profitable, it is, in a sense more along the lines of creating a franchise out of your short as opposed to simply 'making a short profitable'
Magazines don't look for well-known writers because a big part of their audience comes from reader subscriptions and not as much as people off the streets buying their magazines from news stands. Certainly, their main attractions are well-known writers. But, they all have areas in their magazines for new writers with interesting content. That is why big writers organizations recommend them to new writers to get started in the industry. Go with smaller publishers who are not owned by big chains. They are independent publishers. They make lower quality magazines with much smaller circulation. But, they are a starting point and less choose than large publishers.
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Then, you are unfamiliar with the short story market.
Try attending major conventions for writers to learn more. An established writer will tell you, they got their start getting published in a magazine. Getting a collection of short stories published led to them getting an agent and a novel published by a book publisher. An established writer told me to use this method and do research to sales of the issues my short stories appear in to present to literary agents in the future to get an agent to represent me to a book publisher.
I've already been asked by a couple of small publishers to send short stories if I have them because they are always looking for new content. Thus, no agent or rep is necessary.
Popular magazines? A guy from Fangoria frequents Chiller Conventions looking for writers and actors for their own small independent productions. He doesn't ask them for an agent. And, Fangoria is owned by a big chain of magazines.
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There are magazines of all sizes. For science fiction, horror, and fantasy, the publishers are open to new writers and even have a submission guidelines area printed in their magazines. Big publications are owned by big companies with at least several titles of magazines. Smaller magazines may only have one, two, or three title publications.
The quality of the magazine also is an indication of the money behind the publishers product. Low circulation magazines with smaller circulations are all-together made lower quality magazines from the paper they are printed with to the artists who illustrate in them.
My backup plan is to go with the smaller publishers.
The quality of the magazine also is an indication of the money behind the publishers product. Low circulation magazines with smaller circulations are all-together made lower quality magazines from the paper they are printed with to the artists who illustrate in them.
My backup plan is to go with the smaller publishers.
Also, what a magazine charges for ads indicates the size of their circulation. I had two publications I used to advertise in that started out small, but grew very big. In one, I only paid $75 for a quarter page ad. When they grew, I was able to still have my rate because I started out with them from a small publication.
There are always the smaller publishers, if I get turned down by big ones. If the ones I worked with in the past turn me down. There are always new startups. These days with Google, funding startup magazines is easier than years ago.
There are always the smaller publishers, if I get turned down by big ones. If the ones I worked with in the past turn me down. There are always new startups. These days with Google, funding startup magazines is easier than years ago.
this may be the case, I don't know enough about the short story industry to make an informative judgement. However, like others and myself have pointed out, this isn't making your shorts profitable simply creating another possible avenue to take your franchise and I guess somewhat distract you from your original goal which is to make a profit from shorts?