Besides making shorts in series for web series and possible independent TV series on small cable networks, how else can shorts be made for profit?
Brain Storming Ways To Make Shorts Profitable
- Thread starter Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC
- Start date
I don't really understand the question. You can make a great film (short or feature) and no one will watch it; you can make a piece of trash that will make millions because for some reason it is appealing.
I feel that audiences need something to invest in other than random shorts. There were quite a few anthology shows in the 50's and 60's. Most were sci-fi (like "The Twilight Zone" or "The Outer Limits") or murder/mystery ("Alfred Hitchcock Presents," "Night Gallery") but there were a few that were thematically connected (such as "The Millionaire," where people are given a million dollars by an anonymous benefactor - different cast, director, etc. every week except for the lawyer who gives that weeks protagonist the check). There was even Steven Spielberg's "Amazing Stories" anthology series in the 80's and "Tales from the Crypt" in the 80's and 90's.
Food for thought..........
I feel that audiences need something to invest in other than random shorts. There were quite a few anthology shows in the 50's and 60's. Most were sci-fi (like "The Twilight Zone" or "The Outer Limits") or murder/mystery ("Alfred Hitchcock Presents," "Night Gallery") but there were a few that were thematically connected (such as "The Millionaire," where people are given a million dollars by an anonymous benefactor - different cast, director, etc. every week except for the lawyer who gives that weeks protagonist the check). There was even Steven Spielberg's "Amazing Stories" anthology series in the 80's and "Tales from the Crypt" in the 80's and 90's.
Food for thought..........
The question is valid in this forum where so many people make shorts. Ideas for a business model are helpful as a direction to take with a short film.
FYI, I am seeing more and more new startup independentcable TV networks looking for new content even looking for Indie films for content.
Over the decades of home video - say 1983 until today (30 years)
- the people who make short films have tried to find methods of
distribution that will pay them. The answer always comes back to
the audience - those who will pay to watch short films.
You don’t pay to watch short films. I don’t. No one here pays to
watch short films - and they are making short films. It’s clear that
the makers of short films will not pay to watch short films. So an
idea for a business in which makers of short films can make money
on their product needs to start with the market. Who is willing to
pay to watch short films? How can we reach them and get them to
part with their money?
buying short films. Let us in on the ones you have seen. That’s a great
place to start.
- the people who make short films have tried to find methods of
distribution that will pay them. The answer always comes back to
the audience - those who will pay to watch short films.
You don’t pay to watch short films. I don’t. No one here pays to
watch short films - and they are making short films. It’s clear that
the makers of short films will not pay to watch short films. So an
idea for a business in which makers of short films can make money
on their product needs to start with the market. Who is willing to
pay to watch short films? How can we reach them and get them to
part with their money?
You are seeing more and more new startup independent TV networks
buying short films. Let us in on the ones you have seen. That’s a great
place to start.
Unfortunately I have yet to see one that's interested in paying enough to actually make shorts profitable.
I think the answer is right there - no one's willing to pay to watch short films, or certainly not enough to make it profitable. And, as you say, this has been the situation for decades - so why would it change now, especially given the fact that there's probably more short films made every year now than there were in each of those previous decades? To make it even worse - not only are more being made, but they're more accessible to the audience than at any time in history.
Low demand & high supply is a terrible place to go seeking profits.
So if the audience won't pay, obviously we've got to find someone else. Now the mainstream answer to this has been advertising, but unfortunately that's a similar situation. There's tons of ad inventory, so the prices of ads are pretty low. So for instance on youtube, with about 80,000 views of our videos so far, we've made approximately $40 - just enough to cover the grip rentals for the project we're shooting this weekend. Not exactly what I'd call profitable. Extrapolate that out, and you'll need to be picking up 2,000,000 views a week to end up with a single person's (median) salary after budget expenses.
I think the more likely path would be direct sponsorship. 100,000 views may not be worth much to a generic ad market, but if you can find a specific, smallish business who's interests align with your audience you might be able to sell them on sponsoring your short, likely at a much higher equivalent cpm than generic advertising is ever likely to command.
The other likely avenue would be ancillary products - use your film to sell your own products. For instance, come up with half a dozen really cool t-shirt designs, then have your characters wear them in the film, then provide links & information at the end on where viewers can get the shirts.
Of course the problem with all of this is that at the no- to low-budget shorts level this requires you to become a marketer, a PR person, an advertising network, a designer, a retailer - in other words, a lot of things that aren't really filmmaking. I don't think you'll ever make enough doing this stuff to hire someone else to do it, or at least you won't until you've already put in all the work to make it successful first. For a lot of people that's just not going to make sense or may not even be realistic - but the flip side of that is that for those who can do it you'll have a leg up on those who can't.
LinkedIn has several TV Professional boards. On the International TV group board, new network is starting a thread.
Worldwide Content Providers is another board where I've seen postings.
And, there is at least one more TV Professionals group starting threads where the poster specifically was asking for Indie film content and even shorts are welcome.
There are filmmaker groups on Google + starting threads where distributors accept Indie film content that is copyrighted with the US Copyright Office and insured.
Worldwide Content Providers is another board where I've seen postings.
And, there is at least one more TV Professionals group starting threads where the poster specifically was asking for Indie film content and even shorts are welcome.
There are filmmaker groups on Google + starting threads where distributors accept Indie film content that is copyrighted with the US Copyright Office and insured.
ad revenue and merchandising is about it...
perhaps you can make a deal with local movie theaters to screen several short films for a ticket price. Or set up your own screening, if possible. all in all, there's not much chance unless you are very internet-famous I.E Freddiew or CollegeHumor.
perhaps you can make a deal with local movie theaters to screen several short films for a ticket price. Or set up your own screening, if possible. all in all, there's not much chance unless you are very internet-famous I.E Freddiew or CollegeHumor.
As said above, merchandise would be a good way to go. It may be time consuming but see how much it would cost to set up a table at a shopping centre/mall etc? every time you make a new short, get some stuff made and head out to the mall to sell, sell, sell. not just the merchandise but yourself, your movies etc etc it may work, it may not but it would involve working your ass off.
Another outlandish option would be to partner up with someone who's sh*t hot when it comes to marketing & sales. Have them peddle your short to any business who will listen and product placement the hell out your movie?
Completely off topic here but what costs are associated with setting up a national tv
channel? Was just thinking you could set up a channel offering film makers time slots for their shows/movies. If they want to add commercials
that's fine but they need to split the revenue with you. So you get not only the revenue from each time slot but also a % of advertising money.
Anyway, that last one is a bit wild so I'll get my coat and leave now
Another outlandish option would be to partner up with someone who's sh*t hot when it comes to marketing & sales. Have them peddle your short to any business who will listen and product placement the hell out your movie?
Completely off topic here but what costs are associated with setting up a national tv
channel? Was just thinking you could set up a channel offering film makers time slots for their shows/movies. If they want to add commercials
that's fine but they need to split the revenue with you. So you get not only the revenue from each time slot but also a % of advertising money.
Anyway, that last one is a bit wild so I'll get my coat and leave now
Youtube Partnership
Vimeo Tip Jar
TV Series
Merchandise
DVD and Blu-ray
Vimeo Tip Jar
TV Series
Merchandise
DVD and Blu-ray
direct sponsorship, ala branded content seems to be one way. Im working on a series of short 30 to 60 second skits that relate to a product but aren't "about" the product. I work and hourly rate, the sponsor pays for rental, talent, etc..
you see Branded Content on the high end, BMW short films, blackberries "Two Scoops" for example, but there is an untapped LOW END here.
The trick I think is teaching the clients about how non advertising content plays into their marketing strategy and building SEO. (Search Engine Optimization) I think Its pride that gets in the way. Companies don't want to pay to make your short film that doesn't directly sell their product. You have to convince them that they do!
Now that I think of it, its more like the OLD TV model.. "tonight's presentation brought to you by Lucky Strike"
thoughts?
you see Branded Content on the high end, BMW short films, blackberries "Two Scoops" for example, but there is an untapped LOW END here.
The trick I think is teaching the clients about how non advertising content plays into their marketing strategy and building SEO. (Search Engine Optimization) I think Its pride that gets in the way. Companies don't want to pay to make your short film that doesn't directly sell their product. You have to convince them that they do!
Now that I think of it, its more like the OLD TV model.. "tonight's presentation brought to you by Lucky Strike"
thoughts?
A short shorts show!
When you think about it, Twilight Zone and Amazing Stories were just a collection of shorts shown in a regular format together. I used to love Amazing Stories. Wish it was still on in some form. And some of the greatest writers of today participated in those productions. GRRM being one of them.
When you think about it, Twilight Zone and Amazing Stories were just a collection of shorts shown in a regular format together. I used to love Amazing Stories. Wish it was still on in some form. And some of the greatest writers of today participated in those productions. GRRM being one of them.
Okay, you’ve seen postings and groups on line. But you have not
seen even one new independent TV network that is buying content.
I’m not trying to put you down or to deflate your baloon of optimism
or to keep you from looking for way to make shorts profitable - but
you need to be realistic. Just because there are posts on message
boards and groups on Linkedin doesn’t mean you have seen TV
networks that are buying content.
Great. What is the name of this network? Where does it air? What
do they pay for short films? Tell us the name of these distributors
accepting indie film content. C’mon, Mike. Why are you keeping
these distributors hidden from us in thes open, brain storming,
thread? Give us names!
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Neither lasted very long (the 1985 "Zone" 3 seasons, Amazing Stories
2 seasons) and they had huge name recognition. If we could make short
films starring recognizable actors that would give us an advantage, of
course. But even then I think there is a reason there has not been
great success in shows like that on TV - people just aren't interested in
the short film format.
I know I'm coming off as negative - I've been studying this for many
years. There have been attempts by the biggest of the big (Spielberg)
and there have been attempts by cult favorites (George Romero) but
regarding the movies we, here, are are making I just don't see an
audience at all. I have seen "shorts shows" on public access and PBS,
but almost no one watches and they do not pay the filmmaker.
I wish there was a paying outlet for short films.
There are some avenues.
The issue is that there is an over-abundance of great shorts, and very few ways to make money from them.
I've seen television programs run 'shorts' specials, and I've also seen shorts on aeroplanes.
How much they pay, I don't know. But it's an avenue for profit. You need a pretty damn good movie though, with a certain level of production value. On airplanes, it's generally shorts made in the airline's home country, and they're generally some of the best to come out of the country.
In theory it's a good idea, but are enough people going to watch it to justify advertiser's money? It'd be better/safer as a channel addition to a pay TV company.
The issue is that there is an over-abundance of great shorts, and very few ways to make money from them.
I've seen television programs run 'shorts' specials, and I've also seen shorts on aeroplanes.
How much they pay, I don't know. But it's an avenue for profit. You need a pretty damn good movie though, with a certain level of production value. On airplanes, it's generally shorts made in the airline's home country, and they're generally some of the best to come out of the country.
That's assuming anyone would watch it. Also, the only way television networks make money is through commercial advertising, and the only way advertisers will advertise is if there's enough of an audience to make it worth them spending the money.welsh_gambit said:
In theory it's a good idea, but are enough people going to watch it to justify advertiser's money? It'd be better/safer as a channel addition to a pay TV company.
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While I'm just thinking out loud more than anything, there are people who enjoy watching short films. I'm sure there are people willing to pay to watch shorts. The price is something I have no idea about.
The way that I see it, the problem with the whole premise of how to get paid to make shorts is very much the same question of how do I get paid to make movies. You have to make something that has broad general appeal, that people are willing to pay money to watch. For that to happen, you usually need to market what you have to sell. The biggest problem I see, it'll cost the same to market a short than it would to market a movie, and that cost seems to be averaging $30mil. Who would spend $30mil to market a short, when you can spend the same money to market a movie, a proven money maker rather than a speculative industry where no one has really found a way to make money.
If you want to be a film maker, I suggest you concentrate on feature films or tv shows. Things that have a proven market than trying to work on something that is unlikely to show you any real returns in the long term. Who knows, you might prove me wrong and make millions from shorts. If you find a way, congratulations.
To be fair, though, that was 26 years ago. I can only think of three shows which had a collection of shorts for a format. Fright Night, Twilight Zone and Amazing Stories. Horror and sci-fi generally haven't done well on TV. Only a few outlier exceptions really. But Fright Night and Twilight Zone went for gazillions of years so who's to say it was the format?
Unless there are other shows I'm not aware of, it hasn't been tried again in a long, long time. With the right delivery vehicle and the right producers, I think a short shorts show could do very well in this day and age.
And as for the indie aspect, a YouTube channel that specialised in delivering the best shorts from around the globe, rather than being merely a vehicle for one production team, I think could be very popular.
