https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SYMnR8zw9c
Why do posts with videos get so many less responses than regular text posts?
Why do posts with videos get so many less responses than regular text posts?
Why do video posts get fewer responses?
- Thread starter Nate North
- Start date
A couple of thoughts:
Maybe most people see this forum as place to learn about filmmaking, rather than watching movies. Therefore, maybe less people concern themselves with watching the videos people post. I like to, as do a few others, in order to try and help that filmmaker improve on what they're doing, as I'd hope others would for me. I don't think everybody feels the same.
But that leads to my second tought: I'd bet that a lot of people don't want to seem like they're putting people down, so avoid offering any negative criticism. In some cases, by no means all, negative criticism would be all that can be offered. I'd do it, as above, in order to try and help that filmmaker grow. But, as Sonny mentioned, not everybody wants to hear negative criticism.
Maybe most people see this forum as place to learn about filmmaking, rather than watching movies. Therefore, maybe less people concern themselves with watching the videos people post. I like to, as do a few others, in order to try and help that filmmaker improve on what they're doing, as I'd hope others would for me. I don't think everybody feels the same.
But that leads to my second tought: I'd bet that a lot of people don't want to seem like they're putting people down, so avoid offering any negative criticism. In some cases, by no means all, negative criticism would be all that can be offered. I'd do it, as above, in order to try and help that filmmaker grow. But, as Sonny mentioned, not everybody wants to hear negative criticism.
This is a good observation. I see quite a few of the videos in the "Narrative" screening room. If it's short and it looks like a genuine attempt to post and ask for criticism vs something where they only want to hear "it's great" or just boost views. I try to always focus on the positive and only list a major place for revision. It's hard comparing videos when you have a team of 14 year olds on this one and some college film project on another.
If it's longer than a few minutes, honestly I usually skip it unless it's an IT regular or it has a lot of positive feedback. Asking someone to watch 2 minutes of amateur home video is one thing, asking them to watch 18 minutes is another haha.
confessions of a closet film reviewer
I think it's a few things, to different degrees.
Personally, I spend a lot of my time on this site while I'm at work. My work computers have no sound, so I don't watch the videos. Usually if it's someone I know on here I tell myself I'll watch it/give feedback when I get home, but often that doesn't happen.
Another thing is that there are just so many videos being posted, I think it causes members to get a little jaded(is that the right word here?) or apathetic. I used to watch and critique videos a lot more when I was a newer member.
Also, you've got members posting videos with just a handful of posts to their name (I'll admit to having been guilty of this when I first joined). I know for me, if I'm going to have a 'screening room day,' I'm certainly not going to watch and critique a total stranger's video before watching a friend's.
Then there's the fact that to really give good feedback you really need to watch something more than once, or go back and forth pausing and it's just time consuming and, let's face it, a lot of us (or maybe it's just me) can be too lazy to do this. I've definitely watched stuff in the screening room here that I really liked, and maybe even had a couple notes for, but forgot exactly what they were or maybe I wanted to look up a time code, but instead of re-watching it, just ended up posting something nice but non-helpful like "good job."
Those are my thoughts.
Oh, btw. That animation cracked me up
I think it's a few things, to different degrees.
Personally, I spend a lot of my time on this site while I'm at work. My work computers have no sound, so I don't watch the videos. Usually if it's someone I know on here I tell myself I'll watch it/give feedback when I get home, but often that doesn't happen.
Another thing is that there are just so many videos being posted, I think it causes members to get a little jaded(is that the right word here?) or apathetic. I used to watch and critique videos a lot more when I was a newer member.
Also, you've got members posting videos with just a handful of posts to their name (I'll admit to having been guilty of this when I first joined). I know for me, if I'm going to have a 'screening room day,' I'm certainly not going to watch and critique a total stranger's video before watching a friend's.
Then there's the fact that to really give good feedback you really need to watch something more than once, or go back and forth pausing and it's just time consuming and, let's face it, a lot of us (or maybe it's just me) can be too lazy to do this. I've definitely watched stuff in the screening room here that I really liked, and maybe even had a couple notes for, but forgot exactly what they were or maybe I wanted to look up a time code, but instead of re-watching it, just ended up posting something nice but non-helpful like "good job."
This makes sense, too.
I'll admit I have watched a few things on here and refrained from commenting for this very reason.
Those are my thoughts.
Oh, btw. That animation cracked me up
I think the answer is kind of obvious in that in order to have a discussion about someone's film you have to watch it first and, personally, I can't be doing with watching 20 different things a day.
I think your question about why don't your videos get as many comments as some other ones is another misunderstanding. I will watch the things that I reckon I can stomach. Do I really want to watch 20 minutes of CGI swirls without any plot? Not really. And if I don't watch it it's not fair for me to comment. Do I really want to watch three guys with a crappy camera and a basic grasp of AE running around the garden with toy guns for a couple of minutes? Not really either but it's much easier for me to grit my teeth and sit through.
But there are also plenty of good films that are shown on this forum by people who don't have the career advantages that you do, so I don't think it's right to be sniffy about their '1 minute cell phone videos of 2 guys on a park bench' just because they're not shooting on Epics. If you think your videos deserve more comments just because of their greater technical complexity then I think you've got the wrong idea about this forum...
I think your question about why don't your videos get as many comments as some other ones is another misunderstanding. I will watch the things that I reckon I can stomach. Do I really want to watch 20 minutes of CGI swirls without any plot? Not really. And if I don't watch it it's not fair for me to comment. Do I really want to watch three guys with a crappy camera and a basic grasp of AE running around the garden with toy guns for a couple of minutes? Not really either but it's much easier for me to grit my teeth and sit through.
But there are also plenty of good films that are shown on this forum by people who don't have the career advantages that you do, so I don't think it's right to be sniffy about their '1 minute cell phone videos of 2 guys on a park bench' just because they're not shooting on Epics. If you think your videos deserve more comments just because of their greater technical complexity then I think you've got the wrong idea about this forum...
There are several reasons why video clips don't get responses.
As a member of IndieTalk since 2003, I have only put one short clip up on Indietalk (last week), that was in the screening room. While I have watched many clips from others over the years.
If they should keep my interest, I will watch till the end. If they don't, I won't.
I recommend keeping anything under three minutes. One should tease and have the viewer go WOW! then be bored and ignored down the road. Some of the clips I've seen are not that strong in the WOW! factor.
My thought, is if someone wants to see some of MY clips -- go to my website and have a holiday.
I have swapped work with others here on Indietalk by mailing out DVD-Rs of past work. You can learn a lot from other serious film-makers (screenwriters, etc.). I have watched every entire movie on DVD-R mailed to me from those swaps. Always in one sitting, uninterrupted. I hope those that watch mine do the same. I have yet to be disappointed. Some are very, very good!
There are also the indie movies on the web screaming for viewership.
I do not fear honest (or genuine) comments. NO ONE SHOULD.
However, honest criticism is a blessing if one is lucky enough to receive it (though sometimes rare or misunderstood). It can kill you if it is NOT honest, or the author is just guessing or playing with you like a cat does with a mouse... my two cents (not worth much).
By the way, enjoy the movies, Nate.
As a member of IndieTalk since 2003, I have only put one short clip up on Indietalk (last week), that was in the screening room. While I have watched many clips from others over the years.
If they should keep my interest, I will watch till the end. If they don't, I won't.
I recommend keeping anything under three minutes. One should tease and have the viewer go WOW! then be bored and ignored down the road. Some of the clips I've seen are not that strong in the WOW! factor.
My thought, is if someone wants to see some of MY clips -- go to my website and have a holiday.
I have swapped work with others here on Indietalk by mailing out DVD-Rs of past work. You can learn a lot from other serious film-makers (screenwriters, etc.). I have watched every entire movie on DVD-R mailed to me from those swaps. Always in one sitting, uninterrupted. I hope those that watch mine do the same. I have yet to be disappointed. Some are very, very good!
There are also the indie movies on the web screaming for viewership.
I do not fear honest (or genuine) comments. NO ONE SHOULD.
However, honest criticism is a blessing if one is lucky enough to receive it (though sometimes rare or misunderstood). It can kill you if it is NOT honest, or the author is just guessing or playing with you like a cat does with a mouse... my two cents (not worth much).
By the way, enjoy the movies, Nate.
Though it was what started me wondering, my question was not "why don't people pay more attention to my videos" it was, why, in general, videos get fewer responses. You assumed I was saying something that I really wasn't.
On the flipside, if you ever spent weeks working on a project and got overrun by a 45 second clip of kids playing "Dragon Ball Z" in their yard, I think you might wonder why. It doesn't seem egotistical to ask that to me.
And I can't remember ever condescending to someone on the forum for not using an Epic. I personally shot with a DSLR for years. I've definitely suggested that a better equipped team has a stronger shot at financial success (and therefore general success) than a poorly equipped one, but that's not really the same thing as condescending to people.
Generally, I do think that videos with more work and production time deserve more attention, not mine specifically, but for example, Sonnyboo puts a lot of time and effort into his films, as does Gonzo, etc.
No offense but I think 20 people have seen the "Emma Watson is hot" post for every one that has seen "The Island" (Gonzo's film (it's good))
When I'm frustrated at people filming on cell phones, it's not because I think I'm better than them, It's just like watching someone pour a gallon of milk into their gas tank.
If I ever have an unfair emotional reaction to something, it's usually watching a video where someone has made very little effort. It's frustrating to see how many indie filmmakers think that this is an easy profession. It's hard. It's supposed to be hard, and it's supposed to be great. You never see me trash Phil UK for his videos, because he puts time, effort, money, and thought into how he shoots.
Nick makes good points, so does Dready.
I actually watch a lot of videos that get posted, not just here but on other forums, and only comment on certain things. It's mostly because people get defensive and, well, who wants to be the bad guy?
Most content creators don't realize how other people view their work. Just saying, you could be in the same category as those cell phone videos to another person(s).
I actually watch a lot of videos that get posted, not just here but on other forums, and only comment on certain things. It's mostly because people get defensive and, well, who wants to be the bad guy?
Most content creators don't realize how other people view their work. Just saying, you could be in the same category as those cell phone videos to another person(s).
First up I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just trying to get my head round how you're feeling.
You posted two different threads (or a comment on another thread) with a similar sentiment so I was kind of responding to both at the same time. I'm not accusing you of being disparaging about people who don't own Epics but the way you address the industry is different from how other people address the industry.
I'm a student and that's my primary concern (and there are a bunch of others in this same category). Then there are people who have jobs outside of filmmaking and that's their primary concern. You're both lucky and in the difficult position of doing this for your job but you can't expect everyone on an Indie film forum to want to judge their work to such a high level. If you're expecting people to watch your videos and just write awe-filled comments then this isn't the right place.
I wouldn't visit this site if people didn't comment on crappy videos as well as good ones. It's a fundamental part of what this site does. Are you here to learn? Because most, not all but most, people are here for that reason, in one sense or another.
If you ever spend weeks on a project and get overrun by a 45 second clip of kids playing Dragonballs Z in their garden then you need to think about whether you're targeting the wrong audience or whether your work really isn't that exciting.
I've only posted one short film up in the Screening Room but if I hadn't received any comments my response would've gone 'Seriously? No-one has anything positive (or even negative!!!) to say about this?
' rather than getting irritated that people comment on videos that don't have it's production values. It's just that which grates against me a little.
But to address your original question: I had a look at your recent posts and about 90% of them are discussions about general stuff rather than comments on people's work. I think that probably answers your own question. Whether you're just getting unintentionally caught up in a pre-existing trend is another thing but that's the same trend that's always been around on Indietalk (at least since I joined almost precisely a year ago).
After all it's IndieTALK not IndieWATCH
You posted two different threads (or a comment on another thread) with a similar sentiment so I was kind of responding to both at the same time. I'm not accusing you of being disparaging about people who don't own Epics but the way you address the industry is different from how other people address the industry.
I'm a student and that's my primary concern (and there are a bunch of others in this same category). Then there are people who have jobs outside of filmmaking and that's their primary concern. You're both lucky and in the difficult position of doing this for your job but you can't expect everyone on an Indie film forum to want to judge their work to such a high level. If you're expecting people to watch your videos and just write awe-filled comments then this isn't the right place.
I wouldn't visit this site if people didn't comment on crappy videos as well as good ones. It's a fundamental part of what this site does. Are you here to learn? Because most, not all but most, people are here for that reason, in one sense or another.
If you ever spend weeks on a project and get overrun by a 45 second clip of kids playing Dragonballs Z in their garden then you need to think about whether you're targeting the wrong audience or whether your work really isn't that exciting.
I've only posted one short film up in the Screening Room but if I hadn't received any comments my response would've gone 'Seriously? No-one has anything positive (or even negative!!!) to say about this?
' rather than getting irritated that people comment on videos that don't have it's production values. It's just that which grates against me a little.But to address your original question: I had a look at your recent posts and about 90% of them are discussions about general stuff rather than comments on people's work. I think that probably answers your own question. Whether you're just getting unintentionally caught up in a pre-existing trend is another thing but that's the same trend that's always been around on Indietalk (at least since I joined almost precisely a year ago).
After all it's IndieTALK not IndieWATCH
I do understand the not leaving negative comments. I've watched a video and then decided not to write anything rather than be negative also. I probably should though, negative feedback is good feedback. I never learned much at the "school of soft knocks"
I'm sure I am in that category to some. But you'll never catch me screwing around in my yard and asking people to watch it. Why would I do that? Kind of makes a joke out of an industry I clearly take way too seriously.
And I do try to comment on others work, when I can see they're making an effort. Just did that today, before this thread got going.
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1) Lack of compelling content
2) Too long
3) Lack of compelling content
4) Too Long
5) Lack of compelling content
6) Too long
7) Lack of compelling content
Too long
9) Lack of compelling content
10) Too long
With most posted videos (here and elsewhere) suffering from from one or both of these maladies, I dread clicking on "play".
I watched 2 videos here recently, one 10 minutes long, I quit at the 3 minute mark, another about 5 minutes long, I quit watching at the 2 minute mark. I mentioned in both responses the stop point for me. If that isn't a hint, I don't know what is.
Moral: If you didn't take the time to craft a SHORT gem, maybe you ought not post it. Hmm?
2) Too long
3) Lack of compelling content
4) Too Long
5) Lack of compelling content
6) Too long
7) Lack of compelling content
Too long9) Lack of compelling content
10) Too long
With most posted videos (here and elsewhere) suffering from from one or both of these maladies, I dread clicking on "play".
I watched 2 videos here recently, one 10 minutes long, I quit at the 3 minute mark, another about 5 minutes long, I quit watching at the 2 minute mark. I mentioned in both responses the stop point for me. If that isn't a hint, I don't know what is.
Moral: If you didn't take the time to craft a SHORT gem, maybe you ought not post it. Hmm?
I disagree with this. Our screening room is open to anyone, especially those looking to improve their crafts. It is through criticism and response that we become better filmmakers. Our screening room is open to polished gems and rough works-in-progress and anything in between. Whether or not someone wishes to click "play" is up to them.
I think screening room posts tend to get more response when the filmmaker explains what the project is, the circumstances surrounding it, or if there is some sort of buildup story (ie, this is the result of the screenplay you posted for feedback a year ago). So if you post a film and explain how it came to be, what you were working on, specific areas you are looking for criticism on, etc. you are more likely to get feedback. If you just post your clip and say "here's my film" I know I'm most likely too busy to spend the time watching.
Incidentally, the premiere area of our forum has its own private screening room and there is typically much more response there.
I agree with the previous posts.
If a person makes a crappy video, posts it, and asks for feedback then he/she should get honest feedback. There isn't any need to sugar coat it but obviously the feedback should be constructive and not malicious.
I will try and make more of an attempt to offer feedback on videos. I actually REALLY enjoy watching IT trailers, crowdfunding campaigns, and films.
If a person makes a crappy video, posts it, and asks for feedback then he/she should get honest feedback. There isn't any need to sugar coat it but obviously the feedback should be constructive and not malicious.
I will try and make more of an attempt to offer feedback on videos. I actually REALLY enjoy watching IT trailers, crowdfunding campaigns, and films.
I guess this needs correction. You're making a pretty big assumption here.
Had you read the text carefully, or watched to the end credits of one video, you'll see that these aren't my videos at all.
I created the format and produced the show, but those are all videos of other filmmakers, who won an international contest in one of the most difficult forms of on screen art.
I wasn't looking for any kind of praise at all, why would I want to be praised for another persons videos? I encouraged people to post not because I wanted to get their responses, but because I wanted the videos to stay visible long enough for those that would be interested to see them. I had noticed on others posts that video posts of good quality could dissapear surprisingly fast, and that many forum regulars only showed up every few days. People spend weeks on those videos, and minutes on those posts.
My post of 20 videos which was edited from the top 40 teams of a 7000 person pan global competition dropped out of sight in 1 hour, and I've been reading about how long a 110 page screenplay should be for a week.
I guess my point is, Maybe there is sometimes content in these videos that much of us are missing because focus around weaker videos has trained us all to expect the worst from forum videos, and therefore primarily ignore them. We could steer it back the other way. Not with my 3 year old CG videos, but with a thread hosting the greatest indietalk regular films of all time. I don't see enough good videos here, they probably exist, and are have just quickly dissipated between my visits. IMHO Indietalk could be place that not only is accessible to any type of filmmaker, but also a place where you can see what's being achieved through all this talk. It's not mutually exclusive.
What good would compliments do me anyway? I couldn't buy a lenscap with a Palme D'or.
In fact, I'll go start that thread now, and disqualify myself for the first 2-3 months. Maybe the world championship of freestyle CG isn't everyone's bag, but I'm sure some would like to see the greatest of all time from indietalk. I would.
If you have a look at the number of views of the threads in the screening room and compare it to the number of comments is it proportionately that different to the rest of the forum? I haven't done this but it would be interesting.
Since the screening room isn't really a place for hearty discussion I suppose it's hard for a thread to really take off.
For me spending time in the screening room is something I do once a week when I have some time whereas I visit the forum everyday and I do comment when I like something or have something to contribute but the simple fact is a large proportion of content is pretty poor so I don't write anything. Every now and then though there is gold.
Since the screening room isn't really a place for hearty discussion I suppose it's hard for a thread to really take off.
For me spending time in the screening room is something I do once a week when I have some time whereas I visit the forum everyday and I do comment when I like something or have something to contribute but the simple fact is a large proportion of content is pretty poor so I don't write anything. Every now and then though there is gold.
I think I'll do some mining.
First, I think most people (surprisingly) act in good conscious and won't say something ugly about many of the videos that are posted, myself included.
If you can't say something nice, STFU.
Second, LOL at your observation quoted above!
I don't think you appreciate just HOW MANY stupid, pecker-brained people there are running around the planet.
Only recently has social media outpaced porn on the internet.
People are pretty laughably stupid.
When observations match predictions you know you have a good model.
I predict... There are lots of stupid people.
I observe... More Emma Watson photoshop porn than charts diagramming the inverse relationship between federal and state taxes.
There are perhaps a lot more stupid people than you're comfortable believing are free to drive, vote, & procreate.
First, let me say that I absolutely agree with UC's comment, that all should be welcomed for posting videos, no matter the state or quality of polish.
A lot of good insight has been mentioned, already. I can't speak for others, just for myself.
I watch quite a few videos here. I don't always comment on them. Sometimes I don't feel like they need to hear what I would say. Sometimes, I don't have the energy to say it. Sometimes, I just don't care to say it. And the longer the video gets, the less likely I am to watch it (unless it's being posted by a regular, in which case I've probably been looking forward to seeing their work).
BTW, Emma Watson is hot!
A lot of good insight has been mentioned, already. I can't speak for others, just for myself.
I watch quite a few videos here. I don't always comment on them. Sometimes I don't feel like they need to hear what I would say. Sometimes, I don't have the energy to say it. Sometimes, I just don't care to say it. And the longer the video gets, the less likely I am to watch it (unless it's being posted by a regular, in which case I've probably been looking forward to seeing their work).
BTW, Emma Watson is hot!