What's wrong the the (Hacked) Panasonic GH2?

G

gibbo

I didn't really realise just how good the hacked Panasonic GH2 is!

Why does everyone go with canon when the hacked GH2 is much better on paper? The main drawbacks of other DSLR's for video are improved drastically, namely (there could be more, I'm a newbie):

1) A lot less aliasin, namely Moire; and
2) Less Rolling Shutter; because of the
3) Super high bitrate (170-ish MB)
4) No overheating

The first three alone make it a super duper extra triple awesome DSLR for video, and footage projected onto a large screen would look 100's of times better than a Canon DSLR (refering to Black Swan, and Phillip Bloom's promo video he made for Lucas Films at their Ranch).

So why doesn't every indie filmmaker use this little beast? And why don't the Pro's use this instead of the limited Canon DSLR's? Again, Black Swan and the host of other movies that use Canon DSLR's, like Iron man and even Newlyweds (Ed Burns) come to mind.

The only things I can think of are:

Lack of lenses, unlike with Canon - but adapaters should be readily available?
Poorer low light performance due to the smaller sensor - but the hack and extra bitrate allow filming at much higher ISO's cleaner, so it should even out?

For the record, I own a 600D and love it and and WAS lusting after a 5D MKII, until I put some serious thought into the GH2...

I'm mind boggled, there must be something I'm missing?
 
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A lot of people are invested in Canon lenses and don't want to start a Panny lens collection or use adaptors.

And some people really need the weather proofing of Canon cameras or like the build quality or smaller crop factor.

I think the GH2 is great.
 
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For big productions, there are quite a few reasons why they'd go with the Canon line rather than the GH2 (as B/C camera or a crash cam).

1. Build quality. The GH2 makes nice images but it's built like a plastic toy. The 7D/5D/1D have metal bodies and varying degrees of weather sealing, depending on the model.

2. Crop factor. It might sound lazy, but if your main camera has a S35 sensor, why would you choose a B camera with a smaller chip when you can have one that's almost the same size? It's still difficult to get decent, fast, wide glass for the GH2 - it's in a no man's land between S16 and S35.

3. The hack. It improves image quality no end and gives you much more information to play with in post… but it's unofficial and unsupported. The increase in image quality is not worth the cost of the downtime if the camera should stop working. (And you won't see a 7D with ML installed on a big set for the same reason.)

4. Rental house investment/name recognition. Compared to the 7D/5D, very few people have heard of or used the GH2. So rental houses haven't really bought any partly because of the problems above and also because there's little demand for them. Because of this, nobody has really encountered the GH2 on set… you get the picture.

A couple of other notes - the bitrate doesn't have any effect on rolling shutter; you'll see the same artefacts, just with more detail.

Even though people may not have any investment in Canon glass when they start out, it's worth mentioning the importance of having a support network and personal recommendations. My dad's been shooting Canon for years and I had quite a few friends with Canon SLRs (there are even more now than two years ago) - if I needed help using the camera or wanted to borrow gear I was all set. On the other hand, I don't think I know anyone in real life that owns a GH1/GH2 or any M43 glass.
 
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The main reason more films are shot on Canons is that they got there first. GH2 is a relative newbie and even after the camera was released, they were nearly impossible to get for months and months. Black marketers were selling them on ebay for 3x retail. It's only in the last 6 months or so that the GH2 has been available.

It's probably also true that a lot of guys have big investments in Canon glass, which actually works on a GH2, as does nearly every lens ever made, but you needs adapters and lose functionality.

As far as use on "Big sets", not sure why anyone would have a Panny OR Canon except for bts or stunt cameras or something. Big sets usually have big cameras.
 
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+1 Everything chilipie said

The main reasons I haven't jumped ship over to GH2 yet are the crop factor and especially the lenses. EF has so many beautiful and really cheap lens options available, with a GH2 you're pretty much locking yourself into slow, expensive modern lenses, vintage photo lenses you're adapting, or adapting again for much more expensive (though prety) S16 lenses.

Plus, if you're ever going to take a photo with you camera, Canon has the GH2 way beat.

As much good stuff I hear about the hack, I hear about it failing too. The panasonic has been out long enough now for people to know about it, but like you said, all major sets that use a DSLR as a B camera (Black Swan, Iron Man 2, House, 24 used it towards the end, SNL, and many, many other network shows for plates and B cam stuff) use a Canon 5D or 7D. Probably because of the menus hahaha.

I picture an old school camera guy picking up a camera and trying to set it to 24p using terms that are beyond confusing, getting frustrated and slamming the camera on the ground. Again, flimsy plastic body means it shatters haha.
 
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I don't think rolling shutter is in any way affected with the hack, Im not seeing any improvement at 80mbs. Maybe the higher bitrates do have an impact though I'm not sure how it would make a differences, it not like your overclockling the CPU and reading the sensor faster.
 
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Wheat, where you'll notice the hack most obviously is the 1) the motion signature 2) noise doesn't go away but everyone says once annoying noise become more like film grain 3) color grading headroom.

Not sure why everyone has reservation about the crop factor, it's barely distinguishable from the APS-c of the Canons (not the 5d but all the others including the 7d). It's 1.66 versus 1.9. I've owned both and couldn't tell the difference in crop. And the GH2's sensor is far more advanced. The Canon APS-c is really getting long on the tooth. However it's true that the full frame 5d can go significantly wider.

GH2 can adapt to nearly every lens ever made and the proprietary glass isn't slow either, unless you consider f0.95 slow. Canons don't even accept their own FD mount glass. Legacy Canon FD glass is probably the most popular among us kool-aiders. There's a new line for m43 lenses coming out as well. They look really good. As compared to Canon glass (the new stuff), the price isn't much different.

Regarding the hack, I follow the mad Russian's hack forum diligently, driftwood hacks are all bulletproof. Follow the directions and you'll have no issue hacking it.
 
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wheatgrinder said:
I don't think rolling shutter is in any way affected with the hack, Im not seeing any improvement at 80mbs. Maybe the higher bitrates do have an impact though I'm not sure how it would make a differences, it not like your overclockling the CPU and reading the sensor faster.
Click to expand...

Indeed,
higher bitrates would lessen compression artefacts and thus yield more detail, but the speed the chip is being scanned won't be affected.

I don't know what dimensions the GH2-chip has, but it's probably physicaly and resolution-wise smaller. This can result in a faster readout. (Just like the C300 has less pixels than a 5D, resulting in a faster readout.)

About the aliasing and moire: I'm often surprised about the Canon-preference.
But like some said before: already having the lenses, being familiair with Canon, the cropfactor and a 'closed circle' of supply and demand at rentals combined with the marketing-power of Canon vs. Panasonic are probably the reasons for the popularity of Canon.
 
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Those are factors as well.

As for crop, I bought my camera knowing I wanted use a specific type of vintage lens that I was already a fan of from owning one (Pentax Super Takumar). "wide" on a 1.9 crop means you need about a 14mm lens. They exist in vintage lenses, but are WAY expensive. I also come from a FF (Film) still photo background. I didn't want to try and re-program my brain to "OK, wait, so a 50mm is a medium telephoto not a normal".
 
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The reason is just blind cult like trending. It's the same with apple and windows. I personally am not a brand loyalist, I try everything out and go with what is the best from personal testing. Luckily I live near B&H! ;)

Quite honestly, I don't care what anyone says, the hacked GH1 (gh13) and now the super hacked GH2 simply blow the Canon's out of the water on so many factors (except for build quality).

I use the hacked gh13 (better for slowmotion) and GH2s more than my af-100 but people are more impressed seeing the af-100. It's a completely different ball game and you can shoot and adapt so much faster and the quality is simply INSANE.

I had the Canon 5d and 7D and I tried to talk myself into believing it was better and then I went to Sundance 11 and saw all the terrible short films shot with the 7D on a big screen and how smushy they looked and then I saw my own hack footage projected on the big screen and then finally GH2 (which I stayed away from until it was hacked) and it simply smashes the Canons in quality no questions asked.

So you can run with the heard or you can create your own path.

The proof is in the pudding:

Google search for "clearest video ever" and you'll probably get this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO_h_Irqn_4

That was when I first really got my GH1 hack workflow going.

Now this is a direct GH2 (with my own custom hack) clip.... no canon camera can TOUCH this:

http://vimeo.com/32859655

Like looking through a window.

Enjoy!

- Blackout
 
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Not gonna take the time to download it, but I assume all the horrible aliasing I see is the vimeo compression....

Still doesn't change anything. Resolution and "sharpness" are just two factor out of many in involved in why someone picks a particular camera and sharpness can even be a turn off.
 
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Ignorance.

That's the reason.

Like Brian said, Canon got there second, but had the most usable image of all the crappy DSLRs. GH2 hack is just now making rounds in LA. I get calls to hack people's camera whom I've never heard of. They're shooting as primary cameras on a Nickelodeon show, on two major features right now, and a lot of other stuff.

Few want to use Canon DSLRs here. They're done and over with. Secrets out, the footage is garbage. Got rid of our MKII after a client came back and complained about how mushy, soft, aliased the 5D MKII stuff was.

Not sure what it's like in slower areas.
 
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Kholi said:
Is Nashville's industry as swift as Los Angeles'?
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Generally referred to as "The third coast". Certainly doesn't have the production of LA or New York, but as the center of the country music world a LOT of GAC, CMT, etc.. music videos shot here. My preferred rental house sold two of their Red Ones last year because they had lost so much business to the MK2.
 
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