The Secret to Crowd Funding

Directorik - iOriginally this was a reply to you in one of the threads, but I decided to just create a new one for some deep discussions from everyone.

To the people who know me, I've been a member on these forums for a little over a year. I lurk, I reply, I post, etc. What I am posting in this thread is my opinion.


I think crowd funding is broken up into 3 parts.

1. Promotion
2. A Compelling Pitch
3. Establishing a Relationship

So many times I see posters on this message board toss out a link and vanish. They usually only have 1 or 2 posts pegged to their name. To me, it's obvious that they joined with the intentions of trying to get people to use their service OR fund their film. 9 out of 10 times I don't even bother clicking the link.

Which segues me into my next point. Crowd funding is based on relationships. There are different types of relationships. Personal, Non Personal, etc...

EXAMPLE:

Without having physically talked to you, DirectorRik, if you were to start a campaign, I would 100% back you and donate. Why? Because I've talked to you on this thread multiple times, I watched some of your work and I respect what you have to say. That's gives me enough reason to WANT to back your project.


I'm currently backing 2 projects on kickstarter. Both people are complete strangers to me.

One of the people I am backing is raising money for his comic book project. His name is Daniel Johnston. There's a documentary out there called, "The Devil and Daniel Johnston." Perhaps some of you have seen this? Although this guy is a total stranger, there is still an emotional attachment that gained through that documentary. It was compelling enough to have me care about the character thus I am backing his campaign for his new project.

Point is, establishing a relationship is an important part when presenting a crowd funding campaign. Regardless If I know the person directly or I watched a movie about them... Whatever, there is still a form of a relationship that makes me want to click the DONATE button.


Moving on...

A Compelling Pitch.

Again, how many people come onto these forums and ask for people's donations to fund their project? A few...?

How many people fumble with answers when asked questions about how the money is going to be used? A few....?

A lot of people are unprepared. I mean, come one. If people can barely answer where the money will be used then it's sloppy planning, it's sloppy business and the film will most likely be sloppy.

It takes very little to no money to create a website.

You can sign up with companies that will charge you 29 dollars a year for a domain name and web space. I have about 4 websites. Some are just place holders for films that I plan on doing down the road. Point is, I plan things out in advance. If people plan on asking for someone's hard earned money, they should plan things out in advance as well.

Now, if someone asked for a donation and I found our they had a site already planned out and designed for their film, okay, now we are talking. A few script pages on their site to tease us "possible backers"... Okay, now we're getting warmer. A section of possible actors/actresses, pictures of cool locations that they scouted, etc. BINGO, jackpot.

A crowd funding pitch isn't just throwing up a video asking for money because the person wants to make a film!

A crowd funding pitch is the point where the filmmaker physically cannot go any further because of a lack of resources (money, hired help, etc)...

Promotion

Print out business cards that visually expresses the film you are trying to fund. Go to local filmmaking events. Network yourself... Lord almighty, there are so many interesting and untapped ways to promote a project!!!!! We are creatives.... Let's act like it. Come up with a compelling way to grab someone attention. Do something that will make them scratch their head in curiousity to where they will want to go and check out what you have brewing in the pot.

I'm not going to dive into promotion too much. I have plenty of ideas up my sleeve, but what's the fun in spoiling them all!?!?!

Discuss I guess....
 
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@TheOpusFuller

I should have met you before I started my campaign on Indiegogo :) You are absolutely right. I have tried my best to accomplish most of the stuff that you have listed. But I am learning everyday. Watching other campaigns and adjusting stuff on mine.
:)
 
Dumb questions maybe but when someone donates on these sites is that it. I mean what do the donators get in return? Is it like investing in a film or just a donation to help out someone in need?

Owen
 
What you get depends on the fund raisers. Last December, I donated to one of the composers who donated music to my last feature. He reached his mark and got his payout. He sent me a personally autographed CD he burned himself with music he composed and performed himself.

Nice outline of the fundamentals of a successful crowdfunder. It covers all the important points.
 
All of the above is fueled souly by naivety of the scheme. Which isn't a problem, it's a fairly new development. The "Fly-by Night" filmmaker, even though entirely determined, will not -besides Private investment- know of an alternate route other than raising the funds theirselves. "Crow funding" which, at a first glance, is perfect, the film-maker doesn't have to pay. He's going to be given this money...

Little do they know, it's just as tough to convince ten thousand strangers to give them a dollar, as it is earning the money of their own means.

I entirely agree with the above. I'm continuosly stressing what has been said, so it's refreshing to see that it's a united front.

Here, here, and best of luck with your project.
 
Tips to get your crowdfunding campaign going

I have collected more than 10% of my goal in the first 7 days then there is a lull. But I know that this is part of the game. So I have to find new means of finding others potential funders. As I went to film school and lived in Paris for over 12 years, I decided to create a French version of my pitch page. I am now fielding it to all my contacts there. So I think one needs to think of all possible avenues get people interested.

What one forgets (I did) is to remember that your campaign which is one of over 19K campaigns needs to stand out. Funders unknown to you rarely fund you. And for that you need to get it into the 'Featured' section or at least the Popular section. And for that you need to get referrals... that means when you send out your emails or postings they need to have a tracking code in the URL e.g. my indiegogo page URL is http://www.indiegogo.com/sunrise-film. this will take you to the site but will not get me the referral. So you need use the special panel provided on your page and take the URL (special for FB, Twitter, etc) e.g. http://www.indiegogo.com/Sunrise-film?a=19248&i=wdgi (which tells the indiegogo 'machine' that this came from a widget and when someone uses this URL. I get a referral hit. More the hits more you move up out of the cloud into the Popular and ultimately be 'Featured'.

Sunrise is a featured campaign as of today Hurray! :cool:
So guys if you want to help me and you don't want to put any money just go to my indiegogo link and favourite me.
and I'm going to share my experiences with you for the next 94 days that remain on my campaign.
 
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Dumb questions maybe but when someone donates on these sites is that it. I mean what do the donators get in return? Is it like investing in a film or just a donation to help out someone in need?

Owen

There are different perks that the film-maker gives in return for the contributions. It's up to the film-maker to make up his list of perks. You can check out my indiegogo page (link below) and see the different things I am offering in return. Its starts from a $10 - Thank you card to $10K 'Executive producer' credit on film title, IMDB, Publicity etc etc. People decide what they want but most often it's participating in something interesting and then following the updates - shooting blog, photos, behind the scenes stuff or technical know how is what makes it interesting.
As for us we are shooting with multiple HDSLRs and I am sure there will be a minefield of experienced knowledge that will be shared to the crowdfunders.
 
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One of the people I am backing is raising money for his comic book project. His name is Daniel Johnston.

:woohoo:

I love the guy. He has a great song on the kids soundtrack. I like his work with Jad Fair. Speeding Motorcycle with Yo La Tengo is a classic.

Thanks for the ideas, TOF.

Having a cost breakdown is vital. I'm surprised so many people fumble that question. I could tell people where I'd spend the funds to the penny, right off the top of my head. Having a card that *visually* expresses what the film's about. Why didn't I think of that? You could also make a jpg card, that could get forwarded. Or a banner that supporters could add to their site.
 
Dumb questions maybe but when someone donates on these sites is that it. I mean what do the donators get in return? Is it like investing in a film or just a donation to help out someone in need?

Owen

The sites set up something called "perks". For each donation amount, you get something.

IE - for $25 you get a DVD. For $50 you get a DVD and a T-shirt, for $1,000 you get a T-shirt, DVD, and a walk on cameo in the movie

that kind of thing. You can get creative with those too.


No, it is NOT like investing. You do no get any money back what so ever. These are donations, and in some cases even tax deductible (depending on the site and if they achieved 501(C)3 non profit status from the IRS).
 
Dumb questions maybe but when someone donates on these sites is that it. I mean what do the donators get in return? Is it like investing in a film or just a donation to help out someone in need?

Owen

Owen,

Sonny said it well.

You set up perks. People basically donate an amount of their choice and receive these perks. DVDs, Tshirts, scripts, walk on cameos, etc.

One problem I see with this is that it gets quite repetitive. I think people need to start getting more creative with these incentives. Of course it's a given that people will want a copy of the DVD, etc. But, I think people need to take it 5 steps farther. Do something that other people aren't doing.
 
:woohoo:

I love the guy. He has a great song on the kids soundtrack. I like his work with Jad Fair. Speeding Motorcycle with Yo La Tengo is a classic.

Thanks for the ideas, TOF.

Having a cost breakdown is vital. I'm surprised so many people fumble that question. I could tell people where I'd spend the funds to the penny, right off the top of my head. Having a card that *visually* expresses what the film's about. Why didn't I think of that? You could also make a jpg card, that could get forwarded. Or a banner that supporters could add to their site.

Yes, he's great! It's a great song, I agree.

I agree, having a cost breakdown is important. I wonder how many people just pull out a random number and think, "Yeah, I need 3,000k to make my film."

Take Directorik for example. He made a short film for 600 dollars and shot this on FILM! Why did it only cost him 600 dollars? My bet is because he was well organized and put a lot of thought into what he needed and how he could cut corners.

So yes, I think planning and prep work are pretty important.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't even know these sites existed until I read this thread. I'll be sure to check it out at some stage. I reckon it couldnt hurt to donate a few bucks if I see potential. It would be exciting to follow it's progress.

Owen
 
new type

I'm trying a new type of crowd funding out.

I'm not asking for any money from the crowd. I'm out actively scouting talent, and offering good artists that have the ability to produce motion picture quality work in small amounts the opportunity to invest time instead of money, for a direct share of the project's net.

I'm using a strategic approach, that works like this. I get 20 artists together. I create a best of demo reel from 20 solid people. I use that reel, a web site, a business plan, and some charisma to gather up 1-200k in rescources. The rescources, which are in large part graphics production related, can then be used by all members of the team simultaniously, legally, as long as the final product using the licensed resources is published under the company name.

Another large chunk goes into the purchase of a rendering farm. This allows team members to produce final scenes at a rate and quality that would never be available financially to any one person.

The key in this plan is sharing. With 200k I can have a team of 20 guys, who are each working with 100k in production materials. I'm sure it doesn't all stack linear, but the concept is to produce something at 200k that wouldn't be possible for a million without the strategy. This setup also allows every member involved to take away portfolio reel that they never could have gotten otherwise, and an IMDB credit for a known film.

It's my opinion that like me, many filmmakers in the earlier days of their career are quite capable of producing several minutes on incredible footage a year. So in theory a small group of them that were organized into a structured project could probably provide solid production values to a feature film over a 12 month period.

Any thoughts on this alternate take on crowd funding?
 
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I'm out actively scouting talent, and offering good artists that have the ability to produce motion picture quality work in small amounts the opportunity to invest time instead of money, for a direct share of the project's net.

That's not the same thing as crowd sourcing; that's called "deferred pay"....

The biggest difference is that with crowd sourcing, they know up front they aren't getting paid back in any way shape or form.
 
That's not the same thing as crowd sourcing; that's called "deferred pay"....

The biggest difference is that with crowd sourcing, they know up front they aren't getting paid back in any way shape or form.

It may not be crowd sourcing but I think it's unfair to lump what I'm doing in with deferred payment scams.

I think you came up with a good one-liner here, but it's not accurate to imply that a guy who puts up and finds his own money, and supplies tens of thousands of dollars in resources to team members has a lesser commitment to those that help than someone who just asks for money with no intent of return, regardless of the scenario. I think deferred payment has gotten a bad name from people who managed projects poorly, or without balancing their personal vision with probable future financial realities.

I've read through a lot of your posts, and you seem like something of a genius in your clarity of perception, but I gotta say, this is the first time you just aren't making any sense.

I'll make the strongest possible effort to see every member of my team compensated for their time.
 
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I agree with a lot of what TheOpusFuller say about crowd funding. A lot of people pitch unprepared. You need a solid video (a picture will never suffice) and a really strong, and crucially personal, pitch. A lot of people, myself included, throw up pitches on a whim. You'd never go into a business meeting with a potential investor without having a thorough understanding of the material and having a strong pitch prepared. The same is true of crowd funding but because it's orchestrated on the internet people think that they can do it in half an hour.

What I would add, simply as a note, is that getting to know appropriate online communities is an easy way of getting people to invest and promote the project. If someone were to come on this forum having done maybe 30 posts and ask for people to invest in the project then I would certainly consider investing. The same is probably true of a bunch of people on here and other websites and communities like Indietalk. The trouble is is that people tend to do very rushed promotion drives. Promoting the project is key but very few people on filmmaking websites smile upon people who simply do one post about their project asking for our hard earned cash. Post around a bit in the forum, get to know the members and then post. You'll get a much, much better reply.

So that's just my tiny contribution to the everlasting debate on crowd funding. I'm thinking of putting together a longer piece on the subject for people preparing pitches. I like TOF's list a lot and I wish that more people will put that sort of time and effort in before they built their pitch, especially if they plan on asking total strangers to invest in their project.
 
It may not be crowd sourcing but I think it's unfair to lump what I'm doing in with deferred payment scams.

I never used the word "scam". I apologize that you implied that it was a scam or a slam on you.

Deferred pay is a standard in indie film for offering money from the profits with no up front pay, which is what you are offering. I did deferments on my first feature film too.

I think deferred payment has gotten a bad name from people who managed projects poorly, or without balancing their personal vision with probable future financial realities.

I agree with this completely. Unfortunately, the law of averages has made it so that ANYONE promising deferred pay will be met with the concept that they are working for free and will never see any money. This is just the mathematical probability, not a slam on you or anyone personally. Ask all the talented people who have worked for deferred pay. 99%-100% of the time, they never see a nickel, so if they agree to work, they know they will most likely never see a dime.

In that same sense, there are probabilities and realities of the market and circumstance that are not in the hands of the producer which make financial profit difficult (but not impossible). Starting out without a budget high enough to pay people isn't the best start.

I think you came up with a good one-liner here, but it's not accurate to imply that a guy who puts up and finds his own money, and supplies tens of thousands of dollars in resources to team members has a lesser commitment to those that help than someone who just asks for money with no intent of return, regardless of the scenario.

If you have tens of thousands of dollars, then why are you not paying everyone up front? That's not to imply a scam or impropriety on your part, but why would someone want to volunteer for free when you have money?

If you have money for marketing and festivals, but not for the people's time; you face an uphill battle convincing those same people that a deferred payout is possible, especially if they have experience.

I'll make the strongest possible effort to see every member of my team compensated for their time.

That is what every single producer who offers deferred pay has said. Every single one of them had the genuine and honest intent of paying everyone back with the deferred pay.

I prefer to think with the "glass is half full" and assume yours and everyone's INTENT is not to scam anyone with deferred pay. It's just that in my experience and everyone I've ever worked with in the last 12 years on film and video projects, we rarely if ever see a nickel from deferments. I don't know too many people that intend to screw anyone over, but it's the reality of the business that deferred pay = working for free.

Again, just to re-iterate; I do not think you have any intention of scamming anyone, nor did I intent to denigrate you or your project. In my opinion and experience, you cannot compare "crowd funding" to "deferred pay".
 
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