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The Date

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I don't think I get it.

Something to do with girls from the inner city/suburbia having a common problem despite their vastly differing circumstance? Prostitution serving money/popularity?
 
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Well, the history of skirts is their movement upward.

You juxtapose an obnoxious narrator (sorry, that's a stereotype - ha!), over the two women, one who has a date and wears a short leather mini skirt. The other is a hooker who, I take it, isn't wearing anything other than her underwear beneath a coat. The girl on a date doesn't put out, and has a bad experience. The hooker, of course, does put out. Neither seems happy, although the hooker is making some money, and the girl with the miniskirt isn't.

The narrator makes the point (which seems like a platitude to me, George, sorry) that people stereotype other people based on appearances.

Moral of the story is wear long skirts, and people won't assume you want to put out?
 
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Adeimantus said:
Well, the history of skirts is their movement upward.

You juxtapose an obnoxious narrator (sorry, that's a stereotype - ha!), over the two women, one who has a date and wears a short leather mini skirt. The other is a hooker who, I take it, isn't wearing anything other than her underwear beneath a coat. The girl on a date doesn't put out, and has a bad experience. The hooker, of course, does put out. Neither seems happy, although the hooker is making some money, and the girl with the miniskirt isn't.

The narrator makes the point (which seems like a platitude to me, George, sorry) that people stereotype other people based on appearances.

Moral of the story is wear long skirts, and people won't assume you want to put out?
Click to expand...

Very very close.

While I do not follow the forthcoming statement, I do recognize it to be (to a certain degree) true: If you dress like a whore, people will think you're a whore.
 
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1) Typo? - 'accessorius' should be 'accessorises' or 'accessorizes' (here it's 's', but I'm assuming it would be a'z' in America).
2) I do not get it, but for some reason still feel insulted by it.

ang <3
 
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I think I understand why people don't get this. I completely understand why women are offended. I'm no bra-burning feminist, but this is a very misogynistic piece.

I'm not trying to be mean, or to call you a misogynist. I do, however, need to be honest about how this would make me feel if I saw the piece. And also why I think it's off base and therefore is hard for people to 'get.' And please, don't take my tone as bitchy, I'm not trying to be at all :) Here goes:

The idea that women are either a whore or they are a 'proper' kind of feminine girl is grossly unfair. Women are just people and looks and men are not the most important things to all women, just like many men don't fit into a stereotype. Now, I understand that these young women are high school aged (and maybe you were when you wrote it), but this kind of 1 dimensional view of anyone is an immature perspective.

I may be wrong, but I feel like this was written by a man who has never lived with or had a real relationship with anyone. That's not a judgement on you, but it's what I would think based solely on reading this.

I've got too many opinions about this floating around in my head to make much sense of them in text, but to try and sum up my point. IMO, the reason folks aren't getting this, is because the characters have no depth, and the reason that women are offended is, IMO, that the lack of depth is most apparent in the female characters where they are stereotyped and blamed for the ugly actions of their male counterparts.

Not saying that's your opinion, you may just be highlighting a single shallow side of reality, but I just don't like seeing this sort of view perpetuated.
 
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After I read it, I thought the suburban girl was date raped?... shows what I know. (father of 5 girls, married for 19 years)

I thought for a bit they were both going to be just normal girls, no drama other than pointing out that the reader assumed something that was wrong for both situations..

.. or you were going to have the urban chick go do something good, like server soup at the shelter, while the suburban girl went off the deep end..

The setup for irony is there.. but it doesn't pay off..
 
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I'm posting without proofing, so be it. I'll answer later. Going to see a movie.

Dreadylocks: I take no offense, because your position is the same as all the women that have read this.

As for me being misogynistic and the writer of this being young and not ever having a real relationship. I've had real relationships since I was 17. When I wrote this in the 90s, I'd already been with my "girlfriend" for years. We're celebrating 25 this September. YES, I still call her my girlfriend. She calls me her boyfriend. We're still kids at heart. I got into a heated discussion with some feminists when I called Karen my girlfriend. We were both in our thirties, their main question was "When will you stop calling her a girl? She's a woman". I think I replied "When we're both dead."

Also, all my heros are women: Frances Farmer, Joan of Arc and Anne Frank.

But, back to The Date.

People don't get this because of the narration. I even said in a post that I had a hard time understanding it, after it sitting around for years. I do remember what the story is. I'm going to explain it in the best detail I can, and then you can all blast me.

Women hate this because they don't really understand men. Men who say "That's not me", to a certain degree are full of shit.

All people, but more often women are initially judged by their appearance. There isn't much I can do to ever look good. I'm ugly. I'm five foot six, bald, and have a slight beer belly. I get by with my personality. Women put on make-up, get clothes that make them look attractive. There's a lot my female equivalent can do to look better then me. The majority of women do it. There's a reason women's fashion changes seasonally while most men wear crap they had in high school.

In this script; The cheerleader is getting ready for a date with the school jock. The prostitute is getting ready to turn tricks.

The gist is, the cheerleader thinks she looks good. But, she looks almost exactly like the prostitute. So, the jock as stupid as he is, thinks she's going to put out. Because she looks like a whore. Not, that she means to, or thinks she does. But, she does. Unfortunately, this leads to disastrous conclusions. The amount of date rape can't even be calculated, because so many times it goes unreported. It's sad, it's wrong, it's true. It doesn't make it right. There's a lot on this earth, and in the USA that is wrong. But, to ignore it, you put your safety at risk. While, I don't dwell on the negative, every time I leave the house I know something bad can happen. It's a fact. Something bad can happen in your house, but that's a whole different discussion.

99% of men who are straight walking down the street, even if they are with their partners will look when a girl passes by that's dressed like a slut.

Here's a $1,000,000 question that a lying moron will ask: What constitutes looking like a slut? If you don't know, then stay in the closet you're in. But, if you really don't know; check out some porn, or how prostitutes are portrayed on the screen. Watch some cheap ass reality show, or watch the strippers come out of the local titty bar. If none of that is available to you, then think about how you view a slutty looking woman. If you believe you've never looked at a woman and said "Holy shit, look at that" you're a fucking liar.

What I believe women have to wake up to is, we live in a misogynistic world. Women, by at least 50% of the male population are looked upon as prey. I personally believe it to be more like 70%. To cling to the fact that bad things that happen to women are solely the psycho men's fault, while true, is at best kidding yourself. Is it the woman's fault? NO. But, by not realizing that every time a woman places herself in front of strangers, that something bad can happen IS your fault.

Karen kept a blind eye to everything bad. Here's the worst argument we ever got into.

She lived on the first floor apartment in NY with a female room mate. You could walk in the front door of the building because the lock was broken. But, there was a second door that you needed to be buzzed in to. 7am her buzzer rings and she answers it. It's UPS delivering a package. She wakes her room mate and neither are waiting for anything, so she doesn't buzz him in. She does look out her peep hole and sees a large black man behind the locked door. 8:45am she's leaving the apartment to go to work, and the guy is STILL waiting behind the locked door. What does she do? Does she call the cops and say there's a guy waiting for hours in my doorway claiming to be UPS? No. She opens the fucking door, and walks pass him. Thank God he was just a process server waiting to give her a summons. Her company was being sued, and they wanted her testimony. But, what a STUPID IGNORANT thing to do! Some stranger is in your building for hours and you just walk on by. If she had been raped or murdered was it her fault? No. Is some responsibility put on her for being a complete fucking moron? Yes. That would not happen to me. I've done plenty of stupid things in my life, and will continue to do them. But, something so fundamentally stupid, never.

I love walking the streets in the middle of the night. Is it dangerous? Absolutely. I carry a weapon. I'll use it only as a last resort. If I get frisked by a cop, I'll plead my case, and accept my punishment. If I get mugged or beat by a gang of strangers, am I responsible? No. Do, I hold some responsibility for being in a dangerous place at the wrong time? Yes.

Even if you believe in reincarnation, at this moment, you have the one life to live. Once it's gone, that's it. There's no "Jeez if only I'd have...". There's plenty of terrible things that can happen at a moments notice. You can reduce the risk, by using your brain, common sense, and fundamental judgement.

So this isn't one sided: Here's something that happened to me, that really pissed me off at the time.

I was (and still am) a punk rocker. I have the black leather jacket with writing and buttons all over it. I HAD pointed hair (I'm bald now). But, I never walked with an arrogant flair. I am extremely personable and always polite. Me and a friend are going to a Clash concert in Times Square, we're crossing a street and these two cops call us over to their squad car. On my coat I had a pair of handcuffs attached to a shoulder strap. They start harassing me about them, and tell me about how I can be arrested for having them. There's a few police hanger-ons laughing as the cops made fun of me. Finally they call me a loser and send me on my way. I was completely polite, and didn't talk back, which is probably why I wasn't arrested. Later on I got pissed, and tried to file a complaint for them being so rude and nasty. Then I thought, How do they know I wasn't going to use those cuffs for something illegal? Maybe they should have arrested me. HOW DO THEY KNOW?
 
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Have you seen Masked and Anonymous? As the opening credits roll (More or less) we hear a heated street prophet sounding sermon/speech. I don't know who is giving it, but it works well.

I can hear your narration like that, kind of extra disconnected from the visuals for effect.

-Thanks-
 
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Buddy Greenfield said:
Have you seen Masked and Anonymous? As the opening credits roll (More or less) we hear a heated street prophet sounding sermon/speech. I don't know who is giving it, but it works well.

I can hear your narration like that, kind of extra disconnected from the visuals for effect.

-Thanks-
Click to expand...

I haven't. I'll have to see if it's available through Netflix. Yeah, I should shoot this. It wouldn't take long. But, it seems a lot for so little.
 
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USSinners,
interesting response. So I was right, she was rapped.

One thing women don't get about men.
With women cycles, they have strong reproductive urges when they are the most fertile, about three or four days a month. This is not about emotional sexual desire.. just straight physiology\biology. Statistically, most women who start extra marital affairs start them on this cycle, I digress, anyway, the point being is that women have to balance their rational side against very strong reproductive urges just a few days out of 28, men on the other hand have that same urge EVERY FREAKING DAY! All men are heroes for fighting the good fight, not giving in to biological pressures, day in and day out.

That said, and being the father of 5 pretty girls, when boys come around, I have them help me clean the guns. It seems to have a calming effect, at least on me. :)
 
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wheatgrinder said:
That said, and being the father of 5 pretty girls, when boys come around, I have them help me clean the guns. It seems to have a calming effect, at least on me. :)
Click to expand...

I LOVE Johnny Thunders (lead guitarist of the New York Dolls/JT & The Heartbreakers). Before he died in 91' he had a daughter. He always talked to the audience (usually cause he was too wasted to play), and he was talking about how much he loved his little girl. He says "Someone asked me what I was gonna do when she starts dating? I told him, I'll be sitting right behind in the movie theatre." He meant it too. Too bad he died shortly after. He was a dumbass.
 
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