The Community Brainstorming Thread

NickClapper

NickClapper

This idea has arisen in a series of other threads, sometimes to do with shower scenes, but I thought that instead of continuing to hijack slightly inappropriate threads, I would make one of my own.

I started explaining the idea in the 'To you all' thread, saying that I thought it would be possible to create a short film as a community. I have seen some of the threads that died a death simply because this idea is difficult but I do think there are ways of getting around most of the inherent problems.

I set down three points which I think could make production of this more feasible:

-The film would incorporate the fact that we're all in different places and cannot interact face to face (I'm thinking perhaps some sort of online drama/comedy).
-Different roles would be assigned, early on, to different people so that everyone does the minimum amount of work. The more equal the distriubution of time and effort the easier this would be to keep running.
-The film would incorporate the globe trotting element that can be accessed by the fact we have members all across the world. This will mean we can do things that we couldn't otherwise budget for.
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In order to illustrate how the process will work, I've come up with an example plot. Everything in Italics describes the production process:

An internet community (modelled on Indietalk for the purposes of convenience) receive contact from a mysterious stranger who, through a series of clues, informs them that there are bombs planted in various cities across the world (These cities would be dictated by where participating members are located). The members of the community then face a race against time to disarm these bombs and stop the madman.

This is just an example of the sort of storyline that might be practical. Obviously the bombs would be disarmed so that we don't incur massive production costs :D I think the problem with other projects like this has been either a temptation to make them episodic/thematic rather than one coherent storyline. Rather than New York, I Love You we would be going for (as mahdy puts it) a film like Babel.

There are several things to decided immediately:

-What the minimum video and sound quality is going to be (all input, particularly technical, is appreciated).
-What the storyline is going to be.
-Assigning of jobs (this can wait until we have something more concrete to work with).

But basically this is open to everyone whether you're a writer, filmmaker, actor, sound engineer, special effects whiz...etc. Even if you just want to make a suggestion that would be great- the more ideas and contributions we have to work with, the better the finished product is likely to be.

Thoughts?
 
Or we could do like a Paris Je T'Aime, where they are all separate stories but there is a thread tying them together.

We can call it Terra, Je T'aime. :P
 
I think Dready's idea is a little more feasible. What you've proposed, Nick, is an interesting idea, but I'm afraid it's rife with problems. The thing that jumps out at me is that you want to make a movie with no director. Or is it ten directors? That's six or one-half-dozen of the other. I'm imagining what it would be like to edit footage from ten different directors, and nightmare is the only word that comes to mind. No matter how much you try to coordinate things online, the look, feel, and pacing of each location would be so drastically different from each other, I just don't see how it would work.

If each location is it's own self-contained short, however, and they all tie-together into a bigger story -- that could be done, and it could be really cool. The tough part, then, is getting people on-board.
 
four rooms uses this type of structure as well... with a story thread connecting the 4 directors stories... so perhaps the main thread could be the collapse of the government communications and the resulting need for a separate community to come together and save the day... each of the community member's vignettes could then be woven in with the main thread.

I don't think it's that hard to post produce an explosion in a city using compositing and elements from either detonation films or video copilot's action essentials to make that happen - perhaps as a proof of intent on the part of the evil forces at work.
 
knightly said:
four rooms uses this type of structure as well... with a story thread connecting the 4 directors stories... so perhaps the main thread could be the collapse of the government communications and the resulting need for a separate community to come together and save the day... each of the community member's vignettes could then be woven in with the main thread.
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This is really what I mean.

I realise that it would be impossible to produce one, consistantly paced and plotted film from several different directors. But I don't think it would be impossible for each director to film a single, coherent thread of film that fits neatly into an overall structure.

If, for example, Cracker's segment featured him organising an evacuation of Richmond and holing people up in a bomb shelter then that could, in effect, work on it's own. But if we tied that in to the main structure of the piece- where we would show that this one one of several global responses to the crisis- then there wouldn't necessarily be the same loss of consistency.

I don't think Paris, Je t'aime is quite right as an example, simply because the stories are only bound together by the Parisian districts and the transitions are simple and unrelated. I think there must be a movie that I can more closely assosciate with this idea, but I can't think of it.
 
Interesting. Is this following a monthly plan, tri-monthly...?

Pending upon the nature of those film-makers involved, this could, perhaps on an occasion that it was predetermined, be something we put all of our energy into, even be a project we submit to some festivals.

Like i said, it depends upon the intent, and its frequency. I'd like to think we were capable enough, and i have no doubt that we could put together something worth while.

It's just an idea, and a curve-ball at that.
 
It seems to me that this is a sort of extension of the "Weekly (or monthly) Challenge" idea.

Old Uncle Bob is gonna be the party pooper, as usual, but bear with me.

Ideas like this always seem great on the surface. Where they break down is the execution/management stage. The "solution" is KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

The more limitations you put upon the project the fewer people can or will participate for a myriad of reasons - everything from personal time constraints, budgetary problems to inhibiting "creativity" to ego problems - as unreasonable as it may seem to some.

So, with all that being said...

1. This is supposed to be fun and it's supposed to be inclusive. Technical limitations of any kind ("minimum video and sound quality") will automatically eliminate some potential participants.

2. The topic(s) will have to be correspondingly broad to allow for a multitude of story lines and filmmaking (budget) styles.

3. A monthly deadline is strict enough that you actually need to get things done in a timely fasion, but loose enough that those with other obligations (jobs, school, etc.) still have time to participate.

4. Individuals may work cooperatively or not as they choose; i.e. a writer can turn his/her script over to a director, director can turn footage over to an editor.

5. In keeping with the wonderful attitude of IndieTalk it should also be an "educational" opportunity. In order to avoid confusing 300 comment threads each submission would have its own thread, perhaps as another "Showcase" sub-forum for each month. So there would be a thread for "Alcoves February Short", "CrackerFunks February Short","Knightlys February Short", etc. and the comments, compliments and criticisms would apply to just that short. It would also lend itself to "how to" and "making of" info from the experienced folks. The newbs (and experienced folks) would get their projects thoroughly - but politely - ripped apart, learning to accept creative criticism and expanding their knowledge base.

Okay, I've said my piece. My personal favorite idea - if this is to be an extended project - is the "End of the World" scenario. It leaves the field wide open to found footage (i.e. no-budget, $99-camcorder only) projects to full blown productions, and the subjects could encompass everything from "what happened" to the "aftermath".
 
Papertwinproductions said:
Interesting. Is this following a monthly plan, tri-monthly...?

Pending upon the nature of those film-makers involved, this could, perhaps on an occasion that it was predetermined, be something we put all of our energy into, even be a project we submit to some festivals.

Like i said, it depends upon the intent, and its frequency. I'd like to think we were capable enough, and i have no doubt that we could put together something worth while.

It's just an idea, and a curve-ball at that.
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This is pretty much the school of thought I'm coming from. At the moment I think it would be counter productive to start putting deadlines in place, certainly not before we have a script/idea sorted. Then we could look at rough shooting deadlines.

Let me address Alcove's concerns as best I can:
1. This is supposed to be fun and it's supposed to be inclusive. Technical limitations of any kind ("minimum video and sound quality") will automatically eliminate some potential participants.
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I know that this could prove frustrating but even more frustrating would be to produce something really good that's rendered unwatchable by fluctuations in film quality. However, as I said to VPTurner on the other thread, we could easily integrate the 'found footage' method so that we can give creative justification for differences in quality. It would be great (if we were going with an end of the world story) to have some Cloverfield style footage that we could use on TV sets or in News flashes or whatever. But I think that there will have to be some technical guidelines to begin with...

2. The topic(s) will have to be correspondingly broad to allow for a multitude of story lines and filmmaking (budget) styles.

3. A monthly deadline is strict enough that you actually need to get things done in a timely fasion, but loose enough that those with other obligations (jobs, school, etc.) still have time to participate.
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I have a feeling that these points would perhaps be better addressed in Wheatgrinder's Indietalk Weekly Challenges Proposal thread.

4. Individuals may work cooperatively or not as they choose; i.e. a writer can turn his/her script over to a director, director can turn footage over to an editor.
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Yes, precisely. If there are people who have a great idea for how the scenes in London, for example, would play out (in accordance with the overriding storyline) but they can't film it themselves, then there's definitely scope for collaboration. And that should be the same with each and every segment.

5. In keeping with the wonderful attitude of IndieTalk it should also be an "educational" opportunity. In order to avoid confusing 300 comment threads each submission would have its own thread, perhaps as another "Showcase" sub-forum for each month. So there would be a thread for "Alcoves February Short", "CrackerFunks February Short","Knightlys February Short", etc. and the comments, compliments and criticisms would apply to just that short. It would also lend itself to "how to" and "making of" info from the experienced folks. The newbs (and experienced folks) would get their projects thoroughly - but politely - ripped apart, learning to accept creative criticism and expanding their knowledge base.
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Again I think this point is possibly more suited to the Weekly Challenges thread...

Murdock said:
We could do something like Night on Earth.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102536/
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From what I can read about that (not having seen it) then yes, something like that could work.

But I think it would be important to have an over riding frame that is clear and consistent in each of the different narrative threads. There should be one key element that anchors all the different people (in addition to the circumstances, ie End of the world) and that's something we would have to decide on.
 
NickClapper said:
But I think it would be important to have an over riding frame that is clear and consistent in each of the different narrative threads. There should be one key element that anchors all the different people (in addition to the circumstances, ie End of the world) and that's something we would have to decide on.
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:idea: Zombies, Je Vous Aime
 
In distilling this discussion as I read it, the missing components are leadership and accountability. (and brains!)

Leadership is the easier problem to solve. Nick, you have a vision, maybe not a vision of a FILM, buy you have a vision of a journey, don't spend too much time trying to convince us that you have the right vision, your passion and clarity will be enough to convince me and many others to join you on that journey. You and only you can make this happen!

If anyone else wants to be a part of that journey, they have to accept that you are the boss, and you (or your delegate) WILL be telling them what they will and will not do. Keeping your demands on "our" time and resources as light as possible will go along way to assuring success, however, ultimately the project lives or dies on your back.

Utilizing the available resources will be a big part of your job as producer.
For example, If someone signs up and only has a cell phone for a camera, then you will work with the writers to work that into the story.

Accountability is the tougher nut. How to you assure that remote units deliver what they promised?
 
What I would like to say straight away is that I'm one of the least experienced filmmakers on the forum and I know that I cannot, yet, provide a film that is of the same quality as some of the best people.

However I am a pretty meticulous organiser of things, which is why I have always been attracted to producing roles. I would be happy to run the administrative side of a project like this and (hopefully) ensure that things move in a way that they haven't in previous attempts. But like I said before I've no real experience as a filmmaker and I wouldn't want to impose a list of personal demands on more experienced people.

But I do think this is doable and I do see a specific strategy in my head as to how it could be done.

I think to begin with we need to have an element of design by committee so that we can settle upon something that we are all happy and comfortable contributing our time and effort to. Polish and finesse will have to be added so that a level of consistency is settled upon. A lot of the process will be based on compromise, advice and criticism. I think this could be an excellent educational experience as well (certainly for me and others who haven't worked creatively on a significant project) as it will combine the dual disciplines of being a good individual talent and working as part of a team.

As for accountability, well there's not that much we can do. But the process will probably be quite a slow one so I think it will require a level of trust that the people who have been involved each step of the way will deliver a finished product. I would hope that people wouldn't get us to write them into the script and then just not bother showing up. If this happens it would be difficult but not fatal, but I think it's an eventuality that we can avoid.

And yes, Zombies could work :D
 
Vision and leadership is more important than experience for something like this.

I think the "design by committee" is a non-starter. Sure, take INPUT, seek good advice, but don't waste time and energy on "votes" and "poles" If you go off the rails, or make a really stupid decision, I'm sure somebody will point it out! So you don't know an fstop from a truck stop, donworryboutit! Somebody here does!


Comfortable? Aint nothing comfortable about this idea.. Its organic, its messy, and feelings will get hurt.. so !@$#% what! Make me uncomfortable, but inspire me and empower me to perform and I will.
 
I agree, on the whole, with what you say about design by committee. The best ideas tend to get lost in the sea of compromise and you can end up with something that's very messy.

My idea would involve the following steps:

-Brainstorming (hopefully we can settle upon an overall idea eg Zombie apocalypse).
-Creating characters (We would create all the characters as a group so that there can be interplay, overlap and reference within the different segments. This might be crucial to the film working on a single narrative drive.)
-Locations (again determined by where people can film.)
-The basic playing out of events (we don't want one group on people finding a cure for the zombie plague, another group discovering you can kill them with Elton John's music and another finding that being a zombie is more fun than being a human. We want to have the continuity settled.)

I don't think that these steps would put too much strain on the committee process. In an ideal world we would then appoint someone as Head Writer (someone with experience and talent) to tie these scripts all together and make sure there are blazing differences in tone between each of the segments.

Hopefully that wouldn't become too diluted. Thoughts?
 
good, sounding better and better..

You might want to only "write" in lose outline. For example, "FlmMkrDude" who joined up as remote unit director might get a script that just reads..

"JULIE, and the few survivors in a small town in Kansas find and abandoned car, they all get in and drive out of the small town, as they leave the small town in the distance, Julie, riding shotgun, tunes in radio station broadcasting about rumors of a refuge in the Rockie Mountains"

The remote unit director then can make all the local choices..
  • What dialogue (if any)
  • What car
  • What town
  • What setting
  • Who is with Julie
  • Who is injured
  • ...


This will let the remote units have lots of room to maneuver..

They also get to make some big production choices, for example: Are Julie and friends fighting off a horde of zombies as they try and get the car started? Or is it at NIGHT, all suspenseful like.. important details, but not to the larger story..


EDIT: Now Im imagining the remote unit that signed up to do the RADIO broadcast. Again the lose outline of what he should talk about, but free reign otherwise. Maybe that remote unit chooses only to deliver audio files, or takes the leap and creates an entire short film about a sole survivor broadcasting the last days and slowly going insane!
 
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wheatgrinder said:
EDIT: Now Im imagining the remote unit that signed up to do the RADIO broadcast. Again the lose outline of what he should talk about, but free reign otherwise. Maybe that remote unit chooses only to deliver audio files, or takes the leap and creates an entire short film about a sole survivor broadcasting the last days and slowly going insane!
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I feel like here is where we could elevate this project to potential brilliance. If one remote unit (I like this term) were to do a section on a sole survivor in a cabin broadcasting his last days and slowly going insane then they could provide some of the audio in advance. Then in a different segment, with a different remote unit, they could have a scene where they tune the radio into his channel. These would be really subtle but clever ways of weaving the storylines together without destroying any semblance of continuity.

I think that rough outlines sound like a pretty safe idea. It'll be up to each remote unit to determine what they want to do and how they want to do it, but we do need to make sure that the overriding story stays the same- so that people can flex their creative muscles without the fear of having to do extensive rewrites to accomodate changing plot information.

Which leads me to the question: does anyone have any good ideas?

So far the ones that have been raised are:

-deranged cyber terrorist;
-end of the world scenario;
-Zombies, Je Vous Aime.
 
I'm not sure I would allow everyone creative license over the dialogue. That's one of the hardest things to get right in screenwriting. Some of the examples I've seen lately didn't ring true, and there's always "talking the plot" and "on the nose" to contend with.

I honestly believe each segment should be scripted, evaluated, rewritten, storyboarded, then shot. Each "unit" would share their segment so others can brainstorm and link their individual segments to the master theme well in advance of running anything through a camera. If you have people just running out, shooting whatever, and ad-libbing everything, you're asking for an editing nightmare. What could've been stitched together as a nice quilt suddenly becomes a rat's nest.

It's funny you mention all of this, incidentally. I have a short script right now that's getting included in exactly this type of scenario with an independent production company in south Texas. I contributed about ten minutes to their feature-length production.
 
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You raise a good point there and I have to say thAt my natural inclination was to say say that people script it individually but then we run them all by each other in order to provide proper continuity with dialogue...etc.

However the rough outline approach might be a good way of working this through committee stage. Once we approve and designate rough story lines to each writer they can then go and write it without the worry of being filibustered at first draft stage.
 
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