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shot/scene flow?

I did a short film this weekend, and begun doing some rough initial editing, cutting off all the fat..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzQdgBIMgxc

The problem that I have is in the begining I HATE how scenes just quickly abrubt. I don't feel the flow of the scenes at all.

What would you guys suggest to get that scene flow feeling? Longer shots? slower moving camera? Minimal shaking?
 
Im watching with out sound..

My guess is that part of what you dont like about the beginning is that many of the shots are breaking the 180 rule.. Look at 00:11, 00:12, 00:15, for what I mean.. sometimes hes facing left, sometimes hes facing right..

in your editor try flipping some of the shots so that all the shots have the actor facing the same way. I bet this will change how you feel about it..
 
Interesting idea, could probably use a reshoot, more thought.

Looks like you shot interlaced for some reason, looks bad on my end. Shaky cam everywhere, not so smooth. Could try stabilising in post.

Cut all the repetititve shots. We this, then we see it again, and then again. It doesn't appear that most of these little trinkets have much meaning at all, so don't fixate on them too much.

The wide shot of the canyon is good to start on.

Also, the 30 degree rule is the one that grates. This says that every time you cut position the camera at LEAST 30 degrees offset from the previous shot. If not, it usually looks like a bad edit.
 
I think it needs sound to fully evaluate the line crossing in the beginning, which seem to come from a place of character mindset... much of it is good, I've also had problems with youtube interlacing my stuff poorly in the past... I now shoot everything 30p and the problems have gone away.

The camera does seem to move around alot, and it doesn't look as practiced as I'd like (hand holding a camera is a dance and takes tons of practice to get shots that don't remind you that he's not alone in the desert -- you can see the camera man taking steps, which breaks the aloneness we should be feeling).

You can tighten up even a bit further by cutting on action... specific example, when the girl closes the bullet up in the cloth, you can cut out of the shot earlier and deeper into him looking up to make it flow better. I would go from right as the cloth starts to move into his head already in full motion looking up. The timing will feel more realistic for the viewer. Remember, that this is non-destructive editing, cut it too tight, see what it does, if you don't like it... put it back - you'd be surprised how tightly you can cut shots to not nly get the information across but to make them feel more real and keep the audience's attention longer.
 
Hey guys, i've made a tighter cut, and played around with some color settings. Still lots of problems but looks way better than the first one, imho!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Gi62p_EOk

This is my first video using my friend's $100 handheld camera, and a $5 stand :-D

I was trying to figure out last night how to add sound (steps, wind, voices, music) using adove cs4, but couldn't really figure out.. tonight i'll give it another try. Hopefully by tomorrow i'll put some sounds on it!
 
Wow, you travelled a long way to shoot this thing. It's fun for me to see videos on here with locations I recognize. Congrats on making your first video.

Man, when you asked about jump cuts, I didn't expect you to make an entire movie with them. I mean, you really went to town with the jump cuts.

Perhaps I should have said this in the other thread, but it didn't cross my mind. The thing you need to understand about jump cuts is that in using them, you're "breaking the rules". There's a reason why most directors, in most situations, try avoiding them like the plague. The cool thing about art is that you don't have to follow any rules -- you can make whatever the hell you want.

However, I think most people with experience in this field, myself included, would argue that you have to understand and know how to follow "the rules" before you can effectively decide to break them, and you'll know why you're breaking them.

I took a class in videography/filmmaking, and our first video assignment was to shoot a 1-minute video, with little or no dialogue, of continuous action (meaning everything takes place in the same location, and the actors are doing something -- not just sitting around). The whole point of this exercise is just to learn how to shoot and edit a scene that cuts together well (meaning, fluid action, no jump cuts). In order to acheive this, you need to move the camera around a lot, get good coverage, and like knightly mentioned, cut on action.

EDIT: By "move the camera" I mean in between shots. In all honesty, I don't think a rookie filmmaker should take the camera off the tripod for quite some time. Also, stay away from those zooms. James Cameron can use 'em, but he's James Cameron. When a beginner uses them, it looks home-video-ish.

I suppose there could be different interpretations of cutting on action, so I'm not saying my definition is "correct", but as it was described to me, cutting on action involves the same action in both shots -- if a guy stands up from a chair, your first shot gets him in the act of beginning to stand up, then in the second shot you cut to him completing the act of standing up, from a different angle and location.

The following video is what I turned in for that assignment. There's not much of a story, so don't bother paying attention to it. Pay attention to the edits -- where the camera moves to, and what is happening when we change shots. I think you'd benefit from doing this kind of exercise yourself. Just make a minute-long video, don't spend too much time on the story, just practice shooting and editing a scene that will cut together (but first, you've got some googling to do)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXSYUiezEU
 
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So, to make a scene flow better togerther I should record same action from different angles, and location, at least 30 degrees off..
Would the very last scene in my short, where the guy is opening a door to the car, be a good example of scene flow?

In my case, using a single camera, I had to record him opening the door from 3 different angles (from his back, his head from above, and from inside of the car).

In that case, does the organization of the shot or scene play the vital role? When we got to the scene, I pretty much got my camera out, pointed at him and started recording :)

This short was very good learning curve for me. I'm guessing for next weekend short I should have some kind of organized list with how I want each scene to look and camera location, instead of randomly choosing a spot, and shooting. Otherwise I will get another jump-cut-short..

For excerise, I think I should put the camera on tripod and do a short video of me walking through the house, and try to make as smooth as possible without any jump cuts. Would that work?

Crackerfunk (off topic): it took us nearly two hours to get to the ellensburg from seattle! I used to rock climb in that location. but the bad thing is that I didn't bring enough water for three of us, the last couple of scenes we were thirty, tired, and too hot lol.
 
I'm not usually one for experimental material, but that's an interesting short you're working on.

Finish it up before moving to the next one.

do a short video of me walking through the house, and try to make as smooth as possible without any jump cuts. Would that work?

Technique called "cut on motion". Works great where there's action/motion. Try & find the demonstration video by SonnyBoo, on the forum.

does the organization of the shot or scene play the vital role?

You should be arriving on set knowing what you need to shoot, and what is optional/gravy.

If it helps, do storyboards - even with just stickman, if that's the best you can do. At the minimum, break your script/story down into a text shot-list to check off as you go. It sucks skipping one or two, when keeping track mentally. Shot lists are essential if you plan on shooting at unseen locations.

Now get back to adding the sound to your flick. Second cut was much better, btw.
 
Always overlap your action/movement. For example: You have a medium shot of 2 people walking to a table and sitting down. You go in for closeups or medium closeups - at the start of the medium closeup, be sure and have the actor repeat the motion of sitting down. This way, you can cut on action. As you know, it doesn't look right when you show actors moving, then cut to a closeup and they are perfectly still. Always repeat motion. If you are shooting a fight scene, you need to repeat the moves for the second or third angles.

My advice is to not point the camera and shoot, but write all the shots down, first. This way, you know how the scene starts, ends and what kind of transition shots or cutaways you may need. The cutaway shot can save your continuity, big time. If 2 guys are fighting, a few cutaway shots of people watching will allow cover for mismatched action. A cutaway can be a clock on the wall, a cat, dog, bird, little kid looking through a window, sun, clouds or anything else that can be part of the scene. I suggest planning a cutaway for every scene. You may not use it, but when you need it, it is there.




After you write a screenplay, turn it into a storyboard or shotlist. Iron out the continuity before shooting. Example:

SCENE #2 WAREHOUSE EXT. DAY

1) Establishing shot of warehouse. A RED MUSTANG pulls up to the building.

2) Medium shot of MUSTANG entering frame - pan until it stops. The driver, Ray, gets out of the car. He pulls a GUN from his SHOULDER HOLSTER.

3) M.C.U. of GUN. pulled out.


SCENE #3 WAREHOUSE INT. DAY.

1) C.U. of door latch. It turns slowly.

2) M.C.U. of door opening. The GUN probes through the opening, followed by Ray looking in.

3) Wide shot of sparse warehouse.

4) M.S. of Ray stepping in. He closes the door.

5) Handheld P.O.V. shot, from behind a CRATE, looking at Ray. Someone is watching him. There is a sound and the camera ducks behind the crate.

6) M.C.U. profile of Ray. He whips his head and points his PISTOL at the CRATE.




Planning each shot will usually solve your problem - knowing whose perspective it will be at the given time and what space you want to move to.



EDIT: Dang, there is Zensteve, again! He posted while I was writing that and we were thinking the same thing. :crazy:
 
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So, to make a scene flow better togerther I should record same action from different angles, and location, at least 30 degrees off..
Would the very last scene in my short, where the guy is opening a door to the car, be a good example of scene flow?

That's about the gist of it. In addition to changing the location of the camera, it's also good to choose the type of shot, as far as wide, medium, close, etc. You also need to consider the 180 rule, as has already been mentioned in this thread. The 180 is difficult to describe -- better to watch an example. Indietalk's own sonnyboo has a nice tutorial on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdyyuqmCW14

In my case, using a single camera, I had to record him opening the door from 3 different angles (from his back, his head from above, and from inside of the car).

Single camera shoots are normal.

In that case, does the organization of the shot or scene play the vital role? When we got to the scene, I pretty much got my camera out, pointed at him and started recording :)

This short was very good learning curve for me. I'm guessing for next weekend short I should have some kind of organized list with how I want each scene to look and camera location, instead of randomly choosing a spot, and shooting. Otherwise I will get another jump-cut-short..

For excerise, I think I should put the camera on tripod and do a short video of me walking through the house, and try to make as smooth as possible without any jump cuts. Would that work?

That's a good idea for a short. You might have more fun getting a couple friends involved, doing something silly, but in the end, all that matters for this particular exercise is learning how to shoot and edit something that cuts together smoothly. Even if you do something without a plot (like, walking to the fridge, grabbing milk and drinking it, before leaving kitchen), it still will be incredibly easier to use a volunteer actor, so that you can just concentrate on the camera.

As far as organization is concerned, you definitely want something planned. Some directors want to storyboard an entire movie. The impression I get is that most directors only storyboard the real complicated scenes.

For low-budget indie stuff, one problem that often arises is that you may not be able to see your location until you get there for the shoot. In that case, you really can't do any blocking (including camera placement) until your on the set. Even so, you'll still want a plan before you start shooting. In these instances, one method I personally find useful is simply to draw myself a little map of the space being used. Then, on this map, I also pinpoint where the action is, an where the camera will be for each shot, and what type of shot is it -- "master", "over-the-shoulder", "ultra-close", etc. This can be accomplished rather quickly, and it can help make sure you get all the coverage you need.

Finally, get used to shooting a variety of ultra-close shots, both of your actors, and of random stuff in the scene, to be used as cutaways. Sometimes you will find yourself in situations in which you just don't have two shots that cut together well, for a particular action. In one shot, the dude's hand is in front of him, in the next shot, it's behind him. Well, what if you had an ultra-close shot of his face, so that we can't see anything except his face? Now, you can still cut from one shot to the other, by putting his face in between. Or, maybe you use a reaction shot, like the person who is listening to him. Or, maybe you use an ultra close-up of the cat sitting in the window. These kind of shots will often be necessary to smooth out continuity.

Crackerfunk (off topic): it took us nearly two hours to get to the ellensburg from seattle! I used to rock climb in that location. but the bad thing is that I didn't bring enough water for three of us, the last couple of scenes we were thirty, tired, and too hot lol.

Yep, 2 hours sounds about right. I went to school in Eburg. I could do it in 90 minutes, but that's only because I made the trip so often that I knew all of the locations where the police hung out. Also, as you've learned, water is very important to have plenty of, on every set, regardless of your location.

Cheers!
 
Mr. Funk: Do you have your school short "High Noon" posted on youtube?

Yeah, that's what I embedded, above. But if you want the direct link -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXSYUiezEU

The rules of the assignment:

1. No dialogue (the professor made an exception, when he read my script, seeing as how there was barely any dialogue)
2. All static shots (no panning, zooming, tilting) on a tripod
3. Everything takes place in one location
4. Continuous action
5. 45-60 seconds long
 
The 180 rule is explained in the video above by SonnyBoo (posted in this thread by CF).

There's also a 30 degree rule which states that if the content and the shot size are the same, the angle has to change at least 30 degrees to not look like a jump cut.
 
Wheatgrinder> iv never heard of the 180 rule. please explain.

yeah look up and watch that video.. ^^^^

Where its a bit confusing for the OP's short, is that most of the shots there is only ONE person.. so between what and who is this "so called" LINE OF ACTION being drawn?

For a clue just follow the eye line of the actor, or the direction of movement (I guess that works for Cars too)
 
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