Question about creating tones and moods.

H

harmonica44

A lot of moviemakers will try to create the tone by making the picture look a certain way, and making the sound a certain way. Like the movie Dinner For Schmucks, a comedy, uses more brighter, vividly colorful picture, to display it's good-natured comedic tone. The sound is also bright.

A movie like Green Zone, goes for a very grainy documentary style look, and the sound itself is more darker, and flat. I asked about ten people what they knew about movie tones, and that said when they watch a movie, they don't really notice that stuff or were aware that they were even aiming for a tone, especially the sound. So most moviegoers probably wouldn't be able to tell the picture and sound is missing a tone.

I am wanting to shoot my first a low budget action suspense thriller, but since it's on a microbudget, how much does picture and sound tone really matter? If I recorded it as is, and just wanting to make it clear as can be, without aiming for tone, is that okay? Or will that come off as bad quality to the critics at the film festivals? Thanks.
 
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Well what if the audience liked the story so much that they didn't care? I mean would most people care if there favorite movies were missing it, since everything else is the same? If I pay attention I notice this kind of thing from movie going back to about as far as 1990 or a little more, but pretty much all movies of the 80s and before, don't seem to have a picture and sound tone, at least not that I notice. For example Three Days of the Condor sounds almost exactly like Tootsie, and those were both hits. If there is an actual difference I can't imagine an audience noticing. Are there any movies that don't have a tone so I can see if I can tell?
 
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Watch these movies and try to tell me that is the case:

Apocalypse Now
THX 1138
Original Star Wars Trilogy
Indiana Jones Trilogy

You are absolutely right about setting a tone and mood with sound - my god this is what I try to TEACH people and they don't listen.

When I sound design a movie, I start collecting a palette of sounds from the locations and places that I can procure the types of sounds I want from.

I recently went on a journey through the Pacific Northwest capturing sounds for a feature that I wanted to convey mystery and ominous feelings towards the audience to great effect.

This is one purpose sound has in film and it is most sorely overlooked in many indie films of today. Sound is half the experience.

This is so true that for a recent side project I worked on, I placed in wet car-by sound effects instead of dry ones, just to add that extra detail that the ground was wet and cold like it had just rained to give the audience that feeling of being cold and wet outside. No-body said "Those sound effects make me feel wet and cold" but the film did create an awesome cold and foreboding feeling and added to the story.

Sound has to tell a story.

You are going places, kid. Very well done for noticing this.
 
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Oh thanks. I noticed with Indiana Jones having a darker sound. Star Wars and Apocalypse now have a brighter sound but there is something else in those two I can't put my finger on. More of a serious bright and not comedy bright. THX-1138 has a lower budget sound so it's hard to compare tones cause the tones of other low budget movies sound more the same. That's what I meant when I said movies from the 80s and before. I wasn't talking about big budget Star Wars. It is much harder for me to tell when it comes to low budget ones, especially old ones. Personally I wouldn't care as long as the movie was well made in most other ways. Especially since I have written a realistic thriller type of screenplay. Real life has no dark audio/visual tone for the serious times, and sunny tone for the funny times.

Well I want to make this thriller of mine sort of like a low budget documentary style action thriller. If I must need to create a certain picture and sound tone, advice on how to do that? I hope I can with the very low budget, if I have to. I get things like recording wet sounds to make the ground feel wet and all that. But what about making the sound sound flat to make it thriller like? How do you do something like that?
 
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Separate "mood and felling" from emotion.

If your goal is to pull from the audience an EMOTIONAL response then you use mood, to reinforce the emotion of the story. However mood does not take PLACE of emotion.
Setting a boring scene in a garden at sunset is not going to make it any less boring.


Once you know what the emotional content of a scene is, from the screen play, then you can figure out what the mood should be. Sound and music is vital, but during production shooting you can play with MOOD by adjusting lighting, set design, location choices, etc.

Dont be afraid of universal TRUTH here. Important things happen in interesting places... battles on mountain tops, getting lost in caves, these are "mood setting devices" that are universal, but more importantly are effective because of that universality, in short, they mean about the same thing to most people. The key is to keep it subconscious. Once the viewer realizes that they are being played, then you'll reduce the emotional response. So instead of getting lost in a cave, your character wanders in dark office corridors looking for the exit..

Perhaps your story has the characters trapped in a city, you could film shots through stair rails, have shadows from window blinds slash vertically, suggesting prison bars. Add to that by having an airport tower light that rotates like a prison search light (Casablanca if your wondering) This use of an IMAGE SYSTEM is another mood setting device.

There are more, but that's plenty to think about for now..
 
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The fact that the audience doesn't notice it means it was done REALLY well. The WORST thing in bad fimmaking IMO is anything in the editing, lighting, sound that draws attention to itself. It should do it's job without ever being noticed by the audience. Filmmakers will notice it, Joe Public moviegoer should not.
 
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Start with the story.
Consider each scene and the emotional response your trying to get from the viewer.
For example when we first meet the hero of your movie and you want people to feel that she is a nice person, set the MOOD accordingly. .. pleasant music, warm lighting, friendly cheerful sounds, people around here are happy and talking a lot.

Maybe later she has to leave her comfort zone and do something courageous, well then have her walk out of a well lit place into a darker one, maybe out the back door of the cafe where she waits tables..

Then just keep making passes of mood devices..
You got the right location for the mood of the scene
you got the right lighting for the mood of the scene
you got the right activity for the mood of the scene
you got the right sound scape for the mood of the scene
you got the right music for the mood of the scene
...
 
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Gonzo_Entertainment said:
The fact that the audience doesn't notice it means it was done REALLY well. The WORST thing in bad fimmaking IMO is anything in the editing, lighting, sound that draws attention to itself. It should do it's job without ever being noticed by the audience. Filmmakers will notice it, Joe Public moviegoer should not.
Click to expand...

If the audience doesn't notice it, I have a hard time believing they would notice it was missing.
 
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wheatgrinder said:
Start with the story.
Consider each scene and the emotional response your trying to get from the viewer.
For example when we first meet the hero of your movie and you want people to feel that she is a nice person, set the MOOD accordingly. .. pleasant music, warm lighting, friendly cheerful sounds, people around here are happy and talking a lot.

Maybe later she has to leave her comfort zone and do something courageous, well then have her walk out of a well lit place into a darker one, maybe out the back door of the cafe where she waits tables..

Then just keep making passes of mood devices..
You got the right location for the mood of the scene
you got the right lighting for the mood of the scene
you got the right activity for the mood of the scene
you got the right sound scape for the mood of the scene
you got the right music for the mood of the scene
...
Click to expand...

I notice the music creates mood a lot in movies and most often that's the most important part. What do you mean by sound scape precisely?
 
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harmonica44 said:
If the audience doesn't notice it, I have a hard time believing they would notice it was missing.
Click to expand...

SO much in a film operates on a subconscious level.

It's the difference between an audience member thinking;

"man.... I suddenly feel really creeped out"
and
"hmmmm... what's with that weird slightly off key music, I guess that means something scary is about to happen".

OR
"Geez, this guys life is helllish, how depressing"
and
"What's with all the muted colors, is that supposed to mean something?"

It's hard to do, but when you do it, you really have something.
 
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"What do you mean by sound scape precisely?"

The soundscape comprises ALL the sound. The dialogue, the incidental music, the practical music, everything. Every footfall, every car in the distance, every bird outside the window, everything.
 
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harmonica44 said:
If the audience doesn't notice it, I have a hard time believing they would notice it was missing.
Click to expand...

Dean Tavoularis was the production designer for The Ninth Gate. Apparently he made the furniture in each scene a bit redder than the previous one in order to create a feeling of alarm and unease in the audiences mind without them knowing why it was happening.

I found that movie psychologically scary as hell and even though i didnt know that the scenes were getting just a tad redder than before, my subconscious did and it added to my fear.

So even though i didnt notice it, i would have missed it had it not been there in the way that i would not have felt as much fear.
 
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"Production Design" doesn't get enough credit. I saw a REALLY well Art Directed movie at the Phoenix Film Festival this past weekend called "The Dead Inside". Every wall color, every lampshade, every picture on the wall was very deliberate and an excellent choice. I noticed because I'm a filmmaker. A general audience would just know that it "worked".
 
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Hmm okay. Well I don't really know where to go with these subtle mood creations. I always judged a scene by what was happening in it, not by what color the furniture was or anything. Well since I am shooting microbudget thriller, I could go for a documentary style look and feel. I mentioned Green Zone which I love the look and feel of, and the moods it created. Any ideas how to make a thriller with those tones? Green Zone used a grainy look in some of it's shots, but I don't get why the filmmakers wanted it to look grainy in say, the grenade throwing scene, but not the running from the explosion scene right after.
 
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