Protecting Your Idea/Story

Beatlesfan1225

Beatlesfan1225

Hello Everyone,

So I am extremely naive to this side of filmmaking, so I hope that through this thread, I can learn a good deal. I'm currently working on a production that I am remarkably proud of: it's a very long and complicated story that I've considered writing into a book, but as of late, I've been working on the screenplay.

I am extremely cautious as to who I am talking to about the project, because I do honestly believe that it's a very unique concept that I badly would not want someone to take from me. However, this is becoming increasingly more difficult as I start to collaborate with other individuals (some of which from this forum!) on the project.

Currently, I've been keeping the screenplay tightly under wraps, so I am trying to figure out the implications to sharing the story with collaborators. I have a fifteen page document that acts as a synopsis of sorts, and describes much of the back story and plot of the tale. Obviously, at fifteen pages, it certainly embraces a style of brevity, but there is no question that if someone was to obtain the document, they'd have the overall understanding of the story and concept.

I need to be able to share this document with my collaborators, so we can begin numerous tasks regarding the pre-production of this project, but I wanted to inquire here first as to whether or not anyone has suggestions on how I should go about protecting the idea/story before it circulates my group of collaborators.

Thank you so much for any help you can give me!
 
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Beatlesfan1225 said:
Hello Everyone,

So I am extremely naive to this side of filmmaking, so I hope that through this thread, I can learn a good deal. I'm currently working on a production that I am remarkably proud of: it's a very long and complicated story that I've considered writing into a book, but as of late, I've been working on the screenplay.

I am extremely cautious as to who I am talking to about the project, because I do honestly believe that it's a very unique concept that I badly would not want someone to take from me. However, this is becoming increasingly more difficult as I start to collaborate with other individuals (some of which from this forum!) on the project.

Currently, I've been keeping the screenplay tightly under wraps, so I am trying to figure out the implications to sharing the story with collaborators. I have a fifteen page document that acts as a synopsis of sorts, and describes much of the back story and plot of the tale. Obviously, at fifteen pages, it certainly embraces a style of brevity, but there is no question that if someone was to obtain the document, they'd have the overall understanding of the story and concept.

I need to be able to share this document with my collaborators, so we can begin numerous tasks regarding the pre-production of this project, but I wanted to inquire here first as to whether or not anyone has suggestions on how I should go about protecting the idea/story before it circulates my group of collaborators.

Thank you so much for any help you can give me!
Click to expand...


Here in New Zealand, what we do is we take a copy of the script with todays newspaper, then we put it into a parcel like a courier parcel and post it to ourselves. When it arrives we put it somewhere safe and never open it. If the issue of who owns copyright ever comes up, you have a signed, sealed, dated, and officially sent copy of the script safely sealed inside its package with the postal system able to verify the date of that parcels travel and the newspaper doubling the confirmation of date sent. That's copyrighting on the cheap.
 
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FantasyFilmProductions said:
Here in New Zealand, what we do is we take a copy of the script with todays newspaper, then we put it into a parcel like a courier parcel and post it to ourselves. When it arrives we put it somewhere safe and never open it. If the issue of who owns copyright ever comes up, you have a signed, sealed, dated, and officially sent copy of the script safely sealed inside its package with the postal system able to verify the date of that parcels travel and the newspaper doubling the confirmation of date sent. That's copyrighting on the cheap.
Click to expand...

That's actually a quite brilliant idea, has anyone else done anything like this?
 
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FantasyFilmProductions said:
Here in New Zealand, what we do is we take a copy of the script with todays newspaper, then we put it into a parcel like a courier parcel and post it to ourselves. When it arrives we put it somewhere safe and never open it. If the issue of who owns copyright ever comes up, you have a signed, sealed, dated, and officially sent copy of the script safely sealed inside its package with the postal system able to verify the date of that parcels travel and the newspaper doubling the confirmation of date sent. That's copyrighting on the cheap.
Click to expand...

Beatlesfan1225 said:
That's actually a quite brilliant idea, has anyone else done anything like this?
Click to expand...

It's called the Poor Man's Copyright (linkage) and it doesn't work. :abduct:

.
 
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Zensteve said:
It's called the Poor Man's Copyright (linkage) and it doesn't work. :abduct:

.
Click to expand...

It would if you took it to an official court official ( we call them a JP or Justice of Peace here ) they are able to verify identification with a stamp and a signature, so why not have one of them sign and date your script and post it to you from them. I imagine it would be pretty hard to call a JP a liar.
 
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Here in the States registering the copyright is $35. Save $5 each week
and one would have enough in 6 weeks. Is money the issue? Why jump
through all those hoops of Matt's method when you can simply register
the copyright officially for $35? Why such resistance to registering the
copyright officially? Why try a method that has been proven to NOT work
in the US when it's $35 to register the copyright?

Okay, so let us say – for the sake of argument – that the NZ method will
hold up in the US courts. It does not address the actual issue:

Someone stealing Brett's idea, writing a screenplay, getting the financing
and making the movie before he does. Then having the money to go after
that person in court.

Brett; the bottom line is you cannot so completely protect your story, your
concept, your idea, than no one would dare write their own script, finance
the project and make the movie before you do. Maybe you can have a
dated document that proves you came up with it first but then what? Your
story, concept and idea is already out in the public - it's already a finished
movie taken from you. Do you want money if that happens? What if the
film doesn't make much money? Then what do you want?

I agree with zen; go for it. Use the poorman's copyright. I can't figure out
how that method will stop someone from taking this very unique concept
from you.

Last thing to think about; is your concept really so good (I'm not asking if
it's unique) that someone will take it from you, write their own script, finance
the project and make the movie before you do? Is this a legit fear?
 
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FantasyFilmProductions said:
No. it is the advice I received on the topic.
Click to expand...

You should look into it. Even in the UK this rarely holds up in court. It's
too easy to fake. Sometimes one gets poor advice and passes it on to
someone who passes it on to someone who passes it on. "Poorman's
copyright" is that bit of poor advice that continues to be passed along.
I know the laws are different in the UK and this method has held up
on one or two occasions, but it has also failed many, many times
 
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Yes really...

http://www.copyright.org.nz/viewFaq.php?faq=352

http://www.copyright.org.nz/viewFaq.php?faq=353

http://www.copyright.org.nz/viewFaq.php?faq=357

Do take a look at all three pages ^

Over here it is free but everything over there costs so much. When I saw the guy trying to wiggle out of paying, I assumed it would be a lot more then $35 bucks. No disrespect meant to said wiggler, saving money is good if you can.

Clearly advice I was given would certainly hold up here...the postage thing is a way to time stamp it as claimed along with the JP signature.

If you like, I can start looking for a house for you...when will you be moving here :)
 
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FantasyFilmProductions said:
Yes really...

http://www.copyright.org.nz/viewFaq.php?faq=352

http://www.copyright.org.nz/viewFaq.php?faq=353

http://www.copyright.org.nz/viewFaq.php?faq=357

Do take a look at all three pages ^

Over here it is free but everything over there costs so much. When I saw the guy trying to wiggle out of paying, I assumed it would be a lot more then $35 bucks. No disrespect meant to said wiggler, saving money is good if you can.

Clearly advice I was given would certainly hold up here...the postage thing is a way to time stamp it as claimed along with the JP signature.

If you like, I can start looking for a house for you...when will you be moving here :)
Click to expand...

Dude, you don't seem to have a clear understanding of how copyright works. You certainly don't understand what those linked pages are saying.

When you say, "Over here it is free" ... many countries, including the United States, are technically like that. Write a script, and call it a day - automagically copyright dust lands on it...

But how do you prove that in a court of law, or to someone who wants to give you money for the rights to your script, or to the producer who needs to talk to E&O before filming starts, or a million other reasons?

You formally register that date. That what registering the copyright does - it registers an official date. Sure, in some abstract sense you already have the copyright
smiley_bunny.gif
'cos the law says so
smiley_bunny.gif
... but you need to be able to demonstrate that to other people.

At any rate.. I'm out. No more. :bag:

.
 
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mad_hatter said:
What Steve said.


And here’s some links to help you:

http://www.nzwg.org.nz/resources/faqs/your-rights/copyright/
http://www.nzwg.org.nz/members/registration-service/
Click to expand...

Yea but all they do is seal it in an envelope, record certain details, and keep it unopened...how is that different to what I discussed...I can't imagine that the New Zealand Writers Guild has more sway then a JP. In fact I know they don't, one being self appointed and now recognised, the other being a court appointed Judge. So my way would actually be MORE water tight then that method.
 
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Zensteve said:
Dude, you don't seem to have a clear understanding of how copyright works. You certainly don't understand what those linked pages are saying.

When you say, "Over here it is free" ... many countries, including the United States, are technically like that. Write a script, and call it a day - automagically copyright dust lands on it...

But how do you prove that in a court of law, or to someone who wants to give you money for the rights to your script, or to the producer who needs to talk to E&O before filming starts, or a million other reasons?

You formally register that date. That what registering the copyright does - it registers an official date. Sure, in some abstract sense you already have the copyright
smiley_bunny.gif
'cos the law says so
smiley_bunny.gif
... but you need to be able to demonstrate that to other people.

At any rate.. I'm out. No more. :bag:

.
Click to expand...

I didn't say write a script and call it a day, I said get your copy signed and dated by a court appointed official, ie a JP, and have them send it to you. Again, calling one guy a liar is one thing but you would struggle to show that a JP was lieing to protect the copyright of a guy he/she doesn't even know. That would hold up any day of the week and would certainly serve as proof if someone ever disputed my ownership of my work.

As for giving my script to anyone else, I wouldn't do it. I don't write for others to produce, or direct. I write for me to produce and direct.
 
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Beatlesfan1225 said:
I need to be able to share this document with my collaborators, so we can begin numerous tasks regarding the pre-production of this project, but I wanted to inquire here first as to whether or not anyone has suggestions on how I should go about protecting the idea/story before it circulates my group of collaborators.
Click to expand...
First of all since you're in Denver, CO let's keep all of our thinking in "legally defendable in the USA" mode - unless your really wanna fly to the UK, Australia, New Zealand, or Timbuktu to defend your claim in their courts of law - or attempt to find and pay for an attorney over there to handle everything in your absence.

Now... how much is all of this gonna cost ya?
To hire your stateside attorney to start the whole legal ball rolling against someone who has stolen your ideas and probably already put a film out while you've been putzing around getting your ducks in a row?

Begin at a few hundred?
Probably not.
A few thousand?
Yeah, likely.
And that's just to start off with.

Copyrights are fine and dandy and all, but the issue with intellectual property and lo/no budget filmmakers is a matter of time and cost.
It costs money to defend a copyright.

Simply having a piece of paper in a courthouse is fine and all but doesn't ACTUALLY protect you from sh!t nothing unless you pay serious money to defend it.
And that's gonna cost some real money, not no nickel and dime letter-to-yourself silliness or even a legit government copyright.

So, now let's back up the truck to the issue of time.
• You hatch FabFilm idea today.
• You cultivate that idea into some semblance of a legit screenplay after six months.
• You assemble a cast & crew posse to actually shoot it after another three months.
• You do post production for half a year.
• You get your film out to wherever it is you wanna get it to; festival circuit, Direct-To-Youtube, VOD, whatever.
And this whole process has taken you the better part of almost two years, stem to stern.

Your competition, your threat, is from someone who can get this pig to market faster than you.
THEN you can file a copyright infringement claim against them.

OR...

Let's say you make your no-budget <$2M film take it to market, it doesn't do sh!t because... frankly, with a $50K budget it DOES look like sh!t, and after four years and fifty-six views you find out that last year someone ripped off your ideas and made a technically superior film with a $250k budget and is raking in... maybe nothing much better than what you did.

So, exactly WHAT money is it that you're having your attorney in a court of law to get from these @ssholes that ripped you off but have no money themselves?
Oh, and you probably gotta pay your attorney, win or loose, BTW.



Copyrights are fine and dandy and all.
But they aren't the be all, end all, score a windfall card that you might think they are.

Get your film made.
Quick as you can.
Only let people you trust look at your "junk" (yes, that's a double entendre because they're essentially the same thing.)

If you show your junk to a girl/guy and she/he tells everyone slanderous opinions on your junk it's going to cost you money to defend your rights to have your junk correctly represented in court.

Same thing.

So don't go showing your junk to everyone and anyone.

Show it to people you can trust.
And have a little faith.
Everyone thinks their junk is special. (selfie of my junk → HERE!)
Everyone thinks their screenplay is special.
Meh... it's probably not: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=52427


Have a little faith.
Get a move on.
Good luck and best wishes! :yes:
 
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FantasyFilmProductions said:
Do take a look at all three pages ^
Click to expand...
It's interesting, isn't it? You didn't look at the US pages and I didn't look
at the NZ pages.

What I have done is a lot of research and interviews with writers who
have tried to use this method in court defending a copyright claim. I
was putting together a documentary on this at one point.

In the US copyright is established the moment a writer puts their idea
in a tangible form. However, it is terribly difficult and expensive to defend
claims in court. The international laws are even more difficult to defend.
Using the NZ method in the States is foolish. And it's foolish advice to a
U.S. based writer.

FantasyFilmProductions said:
So my way would actually be MORE water tight then that method.
Click to expand...
It may be. In my years of research and interviews I found so few successful
uses of your way that I don't hold your views on it. You're comfortable with
your method, I'm offering another method. My primary concern is in defending
a lawsuit. The more a lawyer has to do to defend copyright, the more expensive
a defense is. Your method is so easy to fake any lawyer can poke hold in the
claim even if the writer did everything properly.

For writers in the U.S. check the copyright.gov website and if the $35 fee is
too high check use the poorman's copyright method. For writers outside of
the U.S. copyright registration is recognized in most countries. If you ever
need to defend a copyright claim having an official "born on" date recognized
in most courts is well worth $35.

The chances are none of us - Beatlesfan1225 included - will ever have to
defend a copyright lawsuit. What would you rather spend the $35 on?
 
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