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My own sound

L

legstud

Hi Everyone!
Thank you so much for your help thus far.
I really appreciate you all taking the time to answer questions.

I'm doing a no-budget feature.

I've learned that i should not go cheap on the sound, because if no one hears it, no one will watch it. I am hoping for distribution. So that is the goal.

I have a little money for somethings.

Sound.

I just don't understand why spend $2000 or so a week for a sound guy if I'm use the Zoom h4n or the edirol r-44.

Can't i just drop $2000 on the sound equipment and then just press record

or should i bring a sound guy on the team? what exactly are they going to be doing that i can't.

thank you so much
 
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legstud said:
Can't i just drop $2000 on the sound equipment and then just press record?
Click to expand...

Can't you just drop $2k on a camera and hit record? Is there more to being a good screenwriter than having Final Draft or Celtx? Just because you have a hammer and a saw could you build a house? Or is there more to it than that? As far as audio goes do you understand polar patterns, frequency roll-offs or gain-staging?

The difference between buying gear and hiring a professional is that when you hire you are gaining years of audio experience as well as the gear. In all probabilities the production sound person will have a selection of high-end mics appropriate for the varying situations you will encounter (just one mic will probably cost as much as your entire sound kit; you'll have at best one or two low-budget mics), have a mixer (which you won't have) so s/he can ride levels, and a recorder vastly superior to the H4n, not to mention all of the little audio extras about which you have no clue.

I'm not trying to be insulting. No one can know it all, and your focus, pardon the pun, should be on directing, not worrying about the technical aspects of your shoot. I've worked as a PSM and a boom-op. Hitting record is easy, being a good PSM takes knowledge and experience. Holding a boom near the talent is easy, being a good boom-op takes a great deal of skill.

If you can fit it into your budget hire a pro, or even a knowledgeable up-and-comer, there are quite a few out there.
 
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I'm not saying a sound person is not worth their weight in gold.
Ideally I would loooooove to have a pro on set. I really, really would.
But we don't have that much to spend so I was really hoping someone would be very sweet and tell me what I could do myself or educate me on why this is money well spent over say...craft services.

Most new filmmakers are on a shoe string budget and just trying to do the best we can. So i can't just sit back in the director's chair.

If anyone could tell me how to do this by myself, I would sure like to learn.

Once again, we're no budget. What equipment would i need? What are the most important things to look our for? Any books I can read?

thanks
 
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Alcove Audio said:
C a knowledgeable up-and-comer
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THIS, is what you're looking for. Your job on set may be "Director" but right now, you have to be resourceful, your budget means squat at this very minute. We work with "Shoe-string budgets" all the time, I have a list of willing collaborators, people who work for pay, people willing to work for eats, some better than others, corresponding their locations to the shoot, their equipment. We have four or five people in every position, from location recordists to runners, producers to costume.

You have to go above and beyond. You'll never love a craft like you're own craft. Find somebody.
 
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In the same way that there is far more to operating a camera then buying it and pushing record, there is far more to recording quality sound on set than buying the gear and expecting it capture quality audio.

It takes proficiency, intimacy with the gear, and a solid understanding of each piece of the sound puzzle, and how to apply that understanding to the incredible variables one encounters when tying to record dialog on location.

And $2000 doesn't begin to buy what most location sound recordists carry in their small bag to a location for rates as low as $150/day.

Lastly, I don't know how insane you want to make your week, but wouldn't it be nice to know that there is a person on the set, who's only worry all day long, is making sure that you are getting the best possible audio? Spending $2000 on equipment will not buy you that.

legstud said:
Hi Everyone!
Thank you so much for your help thus far.
I really appreciate you all taking the time to answer questions.

I'm doing a no-budget feature.

I've learned that i should not go cheap on the sound, because if no one hears it, no one will watch it. I am hoping for distribution. So that is the goal.

I have a little money for somethings.

Sound.

I just don't understand why spend $2000 or so a week for a sound guy if I'm use the Zoom h4n or the edirol r-44.

Can't i just drop $2000 on the sound equipment and then just press record

or should i bring a sound guy on the team? what exactly are they going to be doing that i can't.

thank you so much
Click to expand...
 
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The point GP and I are making - we are both very experienced sound types - is that you can have the $20,000 of gear out but you'll still get crap sound because of your limited understanding of what is required to capture solid production sound. Hell, I've been doing audio post for eight years now and it's only the last three or so that I feel that I have a really solid grasp on the process, and I'm learning more every day.

At the least, you will require an audio recorder, a shotgun mic w/wind protection, a cardioid condenser mic, a boom pole w/shock-mount and cables; that will quickly eat up your $2k. But more importantly you need knowledge; just pointing a mic in the general direction of the talent will not capture good sound. Once more I suggest that you find someone with a basic knowledge of audio with whom to collaborate; that's how I got started in production sound and expanded my knowledge and experience from there.
 
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What I love most about making a movie is working with other
people. Especially working with other people who are passionate
about their specific craft. I love working with someone who is
working towards becoming an excellent director of photography. I
love working with someone who is working towards becoming an
excellent audio mixer and recordist. I love working with someone
who is working towards becoming an excellent make up artist or
costumer.

I understand that at the very beginning a new filmmaker can't
always find others to work with. I'm glad that you are learning
that doing everything yourself isn't always the best option. You
could spend your time learning how to be an excellent audio
recordist and boom op, or you could spend that time finding
someone who really want to be an excellent audio recordist and
boom op.
 
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The hard thing for me I that I am only 15. It's hard to find someone that is skillful with sound at 15/16. If I did, I would hire them. And I don't see any adult wanting to help a fifteen year old with a simple short film. Any suggestions?
 
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Most of the people who hire me are much younger than I am (of course, I'm an old fart). The point is, you can find someone serious about location sound and has decent gear for about $150/day.

cmnervegna said:
The hard thing for me I that I am only 15. It's hard to find someone that is skillful with sound at 15/16. If I did, I would hire them. And I don't see any adult wanting to help a fifteen year old with a simple short film. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
 
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legstud said:
... hopefully I can find that up and coming sound person. I would like to focus on just the directing.
Click to expand...

Check into anyone at your school or in your area around your age who has a home recording studio or runs a PA system. In all probability they won't have the correct gear but they will hopefully know something about audio. Who knows, you may be doing them a favor by showing them an alternate career.

BTW, you can rent audio gear (with your parents help) and have much better equipment than what you would buy.
 
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You might want to check to see if you have any locl cable access channel in the area.
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movieman1005 said:
Could you explain that a little more? I've heard of that and looked it up, but not exactly sure how it works.
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Your local cable company, as part of their negotiation with the city for exclusivity, will offer many public services & benefits... including free use of the public access channels, use of studio space, use of equipment, and the training to operate that equipment. Also the airtime to actually broadcast (on the public access channels) whatever you create with all that free stuff.

Typically you have to take the orientation courses (free) that might total 10 hours or so, over a few weeks. When I did it, way back, we even had to turn in a short documentary about something/someone local (5 minutes or less) but I doubt that's a standard requirement.

Once you've completed the orientation, you gain access to a lot of (older) gear that's still pretty useful. In theory, you're only supposed to use if for projects destined for public access programming... but with a wink & a nudge you can do more. You'll lose that access if you keep borrowing & never provide programming material, though. Multi-task. ;)



I don't see any adult wanting to help a fifteen year old with a simple short film. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Try asking adults to help you with your simple short film. :hmm:
 
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