Jane Wick JR

I am now in preproduction on my action movie that is shockingly reminiscent of 2004's The Punisher.
Loved the editing in that movie. John travolta not so much.

I am all by myself planning and executing this lol. Filming starts december 12th.
Movie effects that i haven't done before:

Shooting someones head off with a shotgun.
Shooting a row of 10 aluminum cans with two pistols.
Shooting walls full of bullet holes and debris
Hand to hand fight with pencil stabbing (I hear john wick killed three guys with a pencil.. a fucking pencil!!)
Shooting a car full of bullet holes and blowing the windows out
Fake 3D bullet casings when the guns fire
Buy better prop guns that use co2 cartridges - there aren't any with fake casing ejection i can buy are there?
Get some kind of double barrel shotgun prop
Build a blood cannon for shotgun blasts
-------

My initial thoughts are...
For bullet holes my 2 choices are either create them entirely in post and apply tracking
or to create them IRL and then to cover them in post production until such time as i want them to appear

for shutgun head blast maybe I have to put a blue bag over someones head and then key out their head for a headless corpse ?
 
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Hows this for a plan.. line 10 aluminum cans up on a shelf in the forest.
Buy M-60s with slow burning fuses, light them and drop one in each can.

Pretend to shoot them and have the fireworks explode. Thoughts?
 
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Sounds like it could work... The only thing I would wonder about would be the direction the can ends up going... I've shot a lot of cans in my life and they almost always either fall backward, up and backward, sideways and backward. I don't think it would matter if a few of them just exploded but I'm thinking for a realistic look, the majority of them will need some kind of force throwing them backward.

This is less true when they're full and unopened though... When they're full and unopened? They do often expload with a gunshot although I've also seen the bullet go straight through and the liquid spewing out the front and back.

I could be completely wrong though... Your M-60s might end up making them look real ENOUGH. Maybe a test is in order?

A long time ago, I shot some bottles on Super8... No kids on the set but I would think with some good, well thought out editing, you could actually have someone with a real pistol (or rifle) and a couple of hundred rounds or more just sit there and shoot the cans over and over and over. 10 at a time. This is how we did it back in the day... We didn't do ten but I know we did 5 or 6 and the end result looked very realistic. Someone who obviously knows how to shoot would be preferable. Assuming you have a place to make this happen and can keep it safe. The trick is not only in the editing but getting enough footage.

Then edit it all together as if all happened at once, in real time... Cutting back and forth between the cans and the girl shooting them which could obviously be shot at a different time and place... Especially for safety.

If you don't want to use actual firearms due to safety reasons... Another option might be large bore air rifles... Although they can be costly but they pack a huge punch when it comes to cans, bottles, watermelons, pumpkins, etc.

Maybe there's some info on this page that might help...

Lock and Load: Everything You Need to Create Realistic Gun Effects in Your Film
 
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Sounds like it could work... The only thing I would wonder about would be the direction the can ends up going... I've shot a lot of cans in my life and they almost always either fall backward, up and backward, sideways and backward. I don't think it would matter if a few of them just exploded but I'm thinking for a realistic look, they'll need some kind of force throwing them backward.

This is less true when they're full and unopened though... When they're full and unopened? They do often expload with a gunshot although I've also seen the bullet go straight through and the liquid spewing out the front and back.

I could be completely wrong though... Your M-60s might end up making them look real ENOUGH. Maybe a test is in order?

A long time ago, I shot some bottles on Super8... No kids on the set but I would think with some good, well thought out editing, you could actually have someone with a real pistol (or rifle) and a couple of hundred rounds or more just sit there and shoot the cans over and over and over. 10 at a time. This is how we did it back in the day... We didn't do ten but I know we did 5 or 6 and the end result looked very realistic. Someone who obviously knows how to shoot would be preferable. Assuming you have a place to make this happen and can keep it safe. The trick is not only in the editing but getting enough footage.

Then edit it all together as if all happened at once, in real time... Cutting back and forth between the cans and the girl shooting them which could obviously be shot at a different time and place... Especially for safety.

If you don't want to use actual firearms due to safety reasons... Another option might be large bore air rifles... Although they can be costly but they pack a huge punch when it comes to cans, bottles, watermelons, pumpkins, etc.

I could safely do it with real guns but only at certain angles and avoiding the line of fire so it's not ideal.
I think an air rifle poses the same problem... I wouldn't want my lens to get cracked by a BB.

Is it super easy to remove wire strings in post? Maybe I could just tie some super thin wire to the cans and yank them ?
 
Fireworks will look like fireworks, too much smoke, and the unpredictability will just piss you off when trying to time them.
 
Fireworks will look like fireworks, too much smoke, and the unpredictability will just piss you off when trying to time them.
Well damn. Okay so either compromise on the angle or risk a camera being shot.
i do have a couple of old cameras i don't care about including my old t2i and i could stand a real gunman next to her off screen
 
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I could safely do it with real guns but only at certain angles and avoiding the line of fire so it's not ideal.
I think an air rifle poses the same problem... I wouldn't want my lens to get cracked by a BB.

Is it super easy to remove wire strings in post? Maybe I could just tie some super thin wire to the cans and yank them ?
They way we did it was with a rifle and placed the camera underneath shooting straight ahead. We shot like 4 or 5 rolls of Super8 -- about 2 and a half minutes per roll. We got a LOT of footage. We used two different types of bottles so we could keep replacing them as close to original as possible. We also had to clean up a heck of a lot of glass... LOL.

When it was all said and done? Came out amazing.

I've seen it done with wire too although I've never done it. Again, this was on Super8 many years ago so no taking out the wire in post and it was just one can on top of a character's head. I didn't set it up... I just observed. As I recall, the wire rigs were set up by running the wire through some black plastic garden tubing and slid up through the character's clothing and taped into place... They were placed perfectly so neither the tubing or the wire could be seen by the camera. The wire was fed from the tubing to someone holding an out of sight fishing rod.

I never did see the final cut on film or video but I did see it happen live from a distance and it looked pretty realistic. Also seemed arduous to get set up just for one can... I can't imagine it for 10.
 
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I didn't know it would all be so hard to shoot some cans!
Maybe i could shoot something else

at 4 minutes this guy shows a couple targets that get knocked over when they're shot. one of them auto resets.
I could still be down range and in the line of fire watching her hit targets with something like this

i'd still have to find a way to knock them down though lol



EDIT: OH HERE is an idea!
What about steel plates hanging from strings. and then when i want them to be hit i just smack the string up above the screen and make a metal pinging noise. and then when theyre all swinging theyve all been hit.

Hmm drop a metal ball into the aluminum can and then run a giant magnet under the shelf. idk. this sucks.
 
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Been looking on YouTube for somebody shooting at cans... Most of the videos seem to be shooting cans with bb guns or air rifles. Terrible quality too.

In this one, the guy uses a .22 pistol... Firing at unopened cans which I would THINK would be more visual but in the end? Kind of anti-climactic. Probably because it's a .22.

Shooting Cans With Guns
 
Been looking on YouTube for somebody shooting at cans... Most of the videos seem to be shooting cans with bb guns or air rifles. Terrible quality too.

In this one, the guy uses a .22 pistol... Firing at unopened cans which I would THINK would be more visual but in the end? Kind of anti-climactic. Probably because it's a .22.

Shooting Cans With Guns
omg 240p lol
I wish i could afford to hire someone and just do the cans all CGI.

But clearly i will have to make compromises such as using a real gunman off camera if her mom lets me or otherwise doing an insert shot of the cans being shot. sad
 
Dude, no real guns and kids, just no!
well i expect her mom might have that response

My question is how is it any different than taking a kid to a shooting range and not letting them shoot.
I dont see any danger in being at a shooting range with trained adults shooting targets as you stand behind them

Personally I started shooting guns at a very young age. I was shooting real guns by 10 for sure but thats just me.
I am comfortable around guns and have been my whole life. I would not give a real gun to the kid.
 
Here's another one... Airforce Texan .308 cans at 100 yards --Again, anti-climactic. The more cans I see being shot on YouTube, the more it seems like in order to get a great visual of this happening, you'd need some way of really launching those cans.

I own several .45 automatics that create great visuals when it comes to shooting cans... But can't seem to find a video on YouTube that is really visual.
 
well i expect her mom might have that response

My question is how is it any different than taking a kid to a shooting range and not letting them shoot.
I dont see any danger in being at a shooting range with trained adults shooting targets as you stand behind them

Personally I started shooting guns at a very young age. I was shooting real guns by 10 for sure but thats just me.
I am comfortable around guns and have been my whole life. I would not give a real gun to the kid.
I TOTALLY get what you're saying... But without real certified experts, paramedics, and whatever else one would require to get this kind of footage? I can't say I'd be willing to let one of my young children do it. Hell, now that I think about it? Maybe even with all the above and more, I'm not sure I'd allow it.

Murphy's Law.

You just NEVER know. But again, I get what you're saying.
 
Here's another one... Airforce Texan .308 cans at 100 yards --Again, anti-climactic. The more cans I see being shot on YouTube, the more it seems like in order to get a great visual of this happening, you'd need some way of really launching those cans.

I own several .45 automatics that create great visuals when it comes to shooting cans... But can't seem to find a video on YouTube that is really visual.
It would look cool if he hit every can within a 3 second period.

I know a couple of people that are trustworthy with guns.
for example my one friend is a federal police officer and already shoots targets in his own forest.
even normal people are okay with federal cops standing around armed.

but guns anywhere on set is not ideal and theres gotta be a better way
 
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It would actually help to explain the scene.

Backyard? Empty soda cans on a table? Board? She is shooting what type of gun? What kind of angles do you need?
 
It would actually help to explain the scene.

Backyard? Empty soda cans on a table? Board? She is shooting what type of gun? What kind of angles do you need?
Its the opening scene .
a shooting range in the forest. A shelf nailed to some trees. about 10 soda cans on the shelf.
She has two 9mm guns.

After this thread discussion and some thought I'm okay with doing it as an insert.
I think it would be really bad to open the movie with something that looks fake.

Therefore I'd rather have real bullets and no kid than fake looking cans to open the film.
 
I think with inserts and sound effects you could also get away with some OTS shots with the cans far away being pulled off with fishing line. You know, the focus could even be on her and you rack to the cans so you only see it clear for one can. This way you get away with a fake look when you combine all the shots and sounds in edit. You know, something like that, anyway.
 
Hows this for a plan.. line 10 aluminum cans up on a shelf in the forest.
Buy M-60s with slow burning fuses, light them and drop one in each can.

Pretend to shoot them and have the fireworks explode. Thoughts?
I've done that! I never transferred the super8 footage or I'd post it.

You should give it a try. See if it works for you.
My question is how is it any different than taking a kid to a shooting range and not letting them shoot.
I dont see any danger in being at a shooting range with trained adults shooting targets as you stand behind them

It seems to me you would be able to find a parent who wouldn't have an
issue with their actor child being on set with an experienced police officer.
In a controlled environment with experienced people this sounds like it
would be very safe.
 
I've done that!
With an M-80? That thing would blow a can to smithereens and leave a smoke cloud larger than a car. It would take half the wood plank with it.
 
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