Is AFM worth it?

[Mike Regent]

Hello,

I recently completed a feature film and would like to bypass the sales agent route and sell it myself. I'm considering getting a booth at AFM. Do you think it's worth it? Can I make sales without going to a major film market? If I can, is it even worth the considerable cost of getting a booth?

Any info is much appreciated.

Thank you kindly,
Mike

 

[Aspiring Mogul]

Yes, to get to know people and understand how the business works. I was there in November, and, while I didn't make any money or get any real contacts, I got a better understand of the business.

I was also at the Toronto International Film Festival earlier, and, again, I got an idea of the business. Bit by bit, I'm learning.

 

[Mike Regent]

Yes, to get to know people and understand how the business works. I was there in November, and, while I didn't make any money or get any real contacts, I got a better understand of the business.

I was also at the Toronto International Film Festival earlier, and, again, I got an idea of the business. Bit by bit, I'm learning.

Thanks... did you have a booth or were you walking the floor? what was your process for approaching AFM? did you contact buyers before hand or did you walk in cold? would you advise against walking in cold?

Thanks again..

 

[EuropeanDistributor]

I would say yes, if getting the pass will not break your bank, it's worth it to go there to get a better understanding and meet people like Aspiring Mogul said.

However I would advice against getting a booth just to sell one movie. The cheapest you can get is a mini-booth at $4,600, and according to AFM's website it is only for sales companies outside of North America.
The smallest offices with Exhibition fee start at about $10,000.

At this point I would guess most of the booths and spaces have been already reserved.

 

[rayw]

I recently completed a feature film and would like to bypass the sales agent route and sell it myself. I'm considering getting a booth at AFM. Do you think it's worth it? Can I make sales without going to a major film market? If I can, is it even worth the considerable cost of getting a booth?

The resident AFM expert is DirectorRik: http://www.indietalk.com/member.php?u=1224

He'll likely weigh in and tell you that it's just not worth the expense and effort, and furthermore not even the correct approach by a long shot.
The AFM buyers are looking for aggregators with a package of deliverables, not "yet another guy with SpongeBob SquarePants stars in his eyes and a backpack full of complimentary DVDs looking for a chance."



FWIW, my 2¢ is that if you didn't figure out a profitable distribution venue before you even started and you're already done with your film then you're already screwed six ways to Sunday.
Hope the production budget wasn't (laughably) too big.
Sincere best wishes.

I'd be pretty irritated if you just came here for info and left without becoming part of the community.
Pessimistic as I am, I'm honestly interested in how this works out for you.

 

[Mike Regent]

I would say yes, if getting the pass will not break your bank, it's worth it to go there to get a better understanding and meet people like Aspiring Mogul said.

However I would advice against getting a booth just to sell one movie. The cheapest you can get is a mini-booth at $4,600, and according to AFM's website it is only for sales companies outside of North America.
The smallest offices with Exhibition fee start at about $10,000.

At this point I would guess most of the booths and spaces have been already reserved.

thanks...is it possible to make sales with just a pass and not a booth? ignoring the cost for a second, would you say the value of the booth is significantly greater than a pass?

 

[Mike Regent]

The resident AFM expert is DirectorRik: http://www.indietalk.com/member.php?u=1224

He'll likely weigh in and tell you that it's just not worth the expense and effort, and furthermore not even the correct approach by a long shot.
The AFM buyers are looking for aggregators with a package of deliverables, not "yet another guy with SpongeBob SquarePants stars in his eyes and a backpack full of complimentary DVDs looking for a chance."



FWIW, my 2¢ is that if you didn't figure out a profitable distribution venue before you even started and you're already done with your film then you're already screwed six ways to Sunday.
Hope the production budget wasn't (laughably) too big.
Sincere best wishes.

I'd be pretty irritated if you just came here for info and left without becoming part of the community.
Pessimistic as I am, I'm honestly interested in how this works out for you.

thanks...what would you say is the correct approach for selling a marketable film w/o a sales agent? there are quite a few sales agents who want to rep the film but I'd rather not give 20-25% commission and a 50k expense cap, if I could do it myself.

would you say the buyers are going to ignore me even if I have a booth and they are interested in the film?

 

[rayw]

what would you say is the correct approach for selling a marketable film w/o a sales agent? there are quite a few sales agents who want to rep the film but I'd rather not give 20-25% commission and a 50k expense cap, if I could do it myself.

IDK what on Earth you should do now.
Bend over, I guess.
Unless someone else here points out a better option.

would you say the buyers are going to ignore me even if I have a booth and they are interested in the film?

No.
I've never attended, so all I have is hearsay, but even with a both and a single film to peddle they're not even going to be interested.

Shelling out shekels for a booth adds neither credibility nor value to your single product, so essentially you've just thrown that money down the toilet.
Buyers are looking for bulk content, like a gravel by the ton, not single films (no matter the merit), like a single rock.
All you got is one rock.
It's a mighty fine rock, I'm sure.
But no one at AFM is looking for a rock.
They're looking for gravel by the ton.

 

[EuropeanDistributor]

thanks...is it possible to make sales with just a pass and not a booth? ignoring the cost for a second, would you say the value of the booth is significantly greater than a pass?

You would have to contact AFM and ask them about it. I know in the past you had to pay $7,500 to be able to sell your movies without a booth.

No, I would not say that the value of the booth is greater than a pass, not for selling just one movie.

Your best bet would be to find a sales agent to represent your movie, they have the relationships with buyers, the know-how, you simply can't compete with them.

If a sales agent is interested in your movie, try to negotiate the expense cap to be lower, or offer them a bigger percentage of sales for no expense cap at all, so you would start seeing money from the first sale.

 

[sfoster]

i don't know about selling movies, but I can tell you from my experience in other areas of business... a marketer should be bringing line 10x the amount that you're paying them in salary..

if that's anything like in film with someone else selling your product, then 20% commission is still going to end up making you more cash than if you just tried to sell it yourself. that is the value of a salesperson right? So pick a good one and that makes the most sense to me.

full disclaimer: this is just an educated theory and not based on personal experience selling within the film industry

 

[IndiePaul]

i don't know about selling movies, but I can tell you from my experience in other areas of business... a marketer should be bringing line 10x the amount that you're paying them in salary..

if that's anything like in film with someone else selling your product, then 20% commission is still going to end up making you more cash than if you just tried to sell it yourself. that is the value of a salesperson right? So pick a good one and that makes the most sense to me.

full disclaimer: this is just an educated theory and not based on personal experience selling within the film industry

Yeah but the movie making and indie world is a real shark infested one. There are good marketers but many many bad ones that will take your $$$$, promise the world but give you nothing...

Big studios typically allocate 30% to 50% of a film's production budget for marketing purposes. So the marketing expenses for big studio productions is typically huge. That has no direct translation for indies but it shows the type of expense the big boys bring to the marketing game.

 

[Aspiring Mogul]

Thanks... did you have a booth or were you walking the floor? what was your process for approaching AFM? did you contact buyers before hand or did you walk in cold? would you advise against walking in cold?

Thanks again..

I didn't have a booth, but I walked the floor, meeting people and getting feedback. I also had a mentor who has been guiding me for the past year, with me, and I met Louise Levison, author of "Filmmakers and Financing", who has been very important in my intellectual development as an aspiring filmmaker.

 

[Sweetie]

I recently completed a feature film and would like to bypass the sales agent route and sell it myself.

Sure you can, though you need to be aware, you may do harm to your movie if you're not ready to take on this task.

is it possible to make sales with just a pass and not a booth?

Technically, yes. Deals for movies are made each and every day outside the AFM.

Would you say the value of the booth is significantly greater than a pass?

Yes, no, kinda, no, yes, maybe. I suspect for you, the answer would be that having a booth would be a significant waste of your time and resources. This is just an opinion, and I have to say, it comes from a complete lack of knowledge of your situation. I also don't know what your goals are.

what would you say is the correct approach for selling a marketable film w/o a sales agent? [snip] I'd rather not give 20-25% commission and a 50k expense cap

I'm not sure about the 50k expense cap (sounds like you're getting taken for a ride from the sales agents you're talking with or your feature may not have any commercial value hence they're looking at getting paid somewhat up front).

The 20-25% commissions aren't too bad. The good sales agents know more than you do. Things like, who are the buyers to avoid (there are people who are willing to buy your film, take your film and never pay you a red cent with your only option is expensive legal action in a foreign country). What are particular buyers looking for?

Are you capable in talking Chinese? Japanese? German? French? Would that mean you cannot sell to those buyers or do you expect them to be able to speak in your language? On top of that, if the German buyer offered you $5k for your film, is that a good deal? What about 2.5k from the Australian buyer? What about $25k for worldwide rights? What about $4k for new media rights? Without a good agent you won't know what the current market is, what's currently an acceptable offer, what terms will screw you and the best way to sell foreign territories. They may even be able to make arrangement with other sellers to get your feature in packages for certain territories. Can you do that solo? Maybe. Would an agent be able to squeeze more than their commission from the sales that'd you miss will ultimately depend on your films value to a worldwide market and your sales agents' abilities.

This is also linked to your next question:

would you say the buyers are going to ignore me even if I have a booth and they are interested in the film?

How are they going to know they're interested in your film without spending time (which they don't have) watching your film (in an area that you don't have).

The real questions are:
What real assets does your film really have?
What buzz has been generated about your film?

If your diamond is truly a gem in the rough, you may have a chance. The problem is similar to the writers elevator pitch. 50,000 movies are made annually. Every filmmaker thinks their movie is the best thing since sliced bread. Less than 1000 films a year see any meaningful theatrical distribution. Take into consideration that there's less than a 2% chance that your "better than sliced bread" movie is actually any good. Next consideration, you're also going to be asking them to spend anywhere between 20 and 200 times the budget you spent on your film distributing it. Lets say I'm a film buyer and you have 10 seconds to convince me you're among that 2% and I'm going to make money with you: Go:

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

Time's up. How did you go? Any "umm" or "errr" there?

Were you able to convince the film buyer to then spend another 30 seconds to listen to your logline and the assets of the film. If successful, did you then convince them to spend 2.5minutes to watch your trailer? They now love it and want to buy it for worldwide rights. They ask, "How much for worldwide rights?"

Did you give them the right answer or did they laugh in your face and walk away? Did they snap you up in a deal that was a steal for them?

I've never attended, so all I have is hearsay, but even with a both and a single film to peddle they're not even going to be interested.

What rayw says is true and false. From my understanding, there are people looking for filler movies. If your movie is a filler movie, then you're shit out of luck. As Rayw said, these are sold as a package and you'll need a sales agent or to team up with other filmmakers.

This is all just scratching the surface. Do you think you're ready to walk that floor?

Oh, I forgot one thing. No pressure. If you don't sell your film this year, there's nearly a 100% chance that your film will never ever sell. Buyers can think along the lines of, if it didn't sell last year, it must be bad.

What's the right move?

 

[Maxsdad]

Mike, it's obvious that you know nothing about marketing a film (nothing personal, I know even less). What makes you think you can do as good a job promoting it as a professional? You mention YOUR film, I assume that means you produced it. Were you also DP? Sound editor? Grip? Actor? You have no problems finding the very best people you can for all those other jobs, why not trust the selling to someone who knows the difference between a buyer who's patting you on the back and one who's humping your leg? I happened to have read a blog earlier that covered this very subject, and it made me realize just how much I DIDN'T know about the business of selling a movie. Making it's the easy part. Check out "Dov's Blog" at the link below. I'm not sure if posting this link is allowed, I apologize in advance if it's a goober.

http://webfilmschool.blogspot.com/

 

[Sweetie]

Dov's a friggin legend. Takes a little to get used to his yelling, but once you get over that style, you'll learn lots.

Thanks for linking that article. It's always good to take a refresher.

 

[Mike Regent]

Sure you can, though you need to be aware, you may do harm to your movie if you're not ready to take on this task.



Technically, yes. Deals for movies are made each and every day outside the AFM.



Yes, no, kinda, no, yes, maybe. I suspect for you, the answer would be that having a booth would be a significant waste of your time and resources. This is just an opinion, and I have to say, it comes from a complete lack of knowledge of your situation. I also don't know what your goals are.



I'm not sure about the 50k expense cap (sounds like you're getting taken for a ride from the sales agents you're talking with or your feature may not have any commercial value hence they're looking at getting paid somewhat up front).

The 20-25% commissions aren't too bad. The good sales agents know more than you do. Things like, who are the buyers to avoid (there are people who are willing to buy your film, take your film and never pay you a red cent with your only option is expensive legal action in a foreign country). What are particular buyers looking for?

Are you capable in talking Chinese? Japanese? German? French? Would that mean you cannot sell to those buyers or do you expect them to be able to speak in your language? On top of that, if the German buyer offered you $5k for your film, is that a good deal? What about 2.5k from the Australian buyer? What about $25k for worldwide rights? What about $4k for new media rights? Without a good agent you won't know what the current market is, what's currently an acceptable offer, what terms will screw you and the best way to sell foreign territories. They may even be able to make arrangement with other sellers to get your feature in packages for certain territories. Can you do that solo? Maybe. Would an agent be able to squeeze more than their commission from the sales that'd you miss will ultimately depend on your films value to a worldwide market and your sales agents' abilities.

This is also linked to your next question:



How are they going to know they're interested in your film without spending time (which they don't have) watching your film (in an area that you don't have).

The real questions are:
What real assets does your film really have?
What buzz has been generated about your film?

If your diamond is truly a gem in the rough, you may have a chance. The problem is similar to the writers elevator pitch. 50,000 movies are made annually. Every filmmaker thinks their movie is the best thing since sliced bread. Less than 1000 films a year see any meaningful theatrical distribution. Take into consideration that there's less than a 2% chance that your "better than sliced bread" movie is actually any good. Next consideration, you're also going to be asking them to spend anywhere between 20 and 200 times the budget you spent on your film distributing it. Lets say I'm a film buyer and you have 10 seconds to convince me you're among that 2% and I'm going to make money with you: Go:

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

Time's up. How did you go? Any "umm" or "errr" there?

Were you able to convince the film buyer to then spend another 30 seconds to listen to your logline and the assets of the film. If successful, did you then convince them to spend 2.5minutes to watch your trailer? They now love it and want to buy it for worldwide rights. They ask, "How much for worldwide rights?"

Did you give them the right answer or did they laugh in your face and walk away? Did they snap you up in a deal that was a steal for them?



What rayw says is true and false. From my understanding, there are people looking for filler movies. If your movie is a filler movie, then you're shit out of luck. As Rayw said, these are sold as a package and you'll need a sales agent or to team up with other filmmakers.

This is all just scratching the surface. Do you think you're ready to walk that floor?

Oh, I forgot one thing. No pressure. If you don't sell your film this year, there's nearly a 100% chance that your film will never ever sell. Buyers can think along the lines of, if it didn't sell last year, it must be bad.

What's the right move?

Thanks so much for your detailed and informative post, Sweetie.

If I could pick your brain for a bit more I would be even more grateful...

Assume the following:
1. the movie in question is extremely sellable and is not a filler movie
2. I will not use a sales agent
3. I've sold a movie before so I have a good sense of the range of what foreign buyers will pay

If the above is true, in your opinion, would it be worth it to get a booth to sell to international buyers or could I accomplish the same things I would at AFM simply by calling the buyers direct anytime I want?

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[directorik]

Assume the following:
1. the movie in question is extremely sellable and is not a filler movie
2. I will not use a sales agent
3. I've sold a movie before so I have a good sense of the range of what foreign buyers will pay

So you have and “extremely” sellable movie and you have the skills
and knowledge of an excellent sales agent and you have the money
for a booth at AFM.

Then do it.

Frankly if you have an extremely sellable movie (one that most
international buyers will want the moment they see your press kit)
you don’t need AFM. Send your EPK to the buyers right away. You
know how to make the deal and the film will sell itself. Don’t waste
your money at AFM.

 

[Sweetie]

If the above is true, in your opinion, would it be worth it to get a booth to sell to international buyers or could I accomplish the same things I would at AFM simply by calling the buyers direct anytime I want?

Frankly if you have an extremely sellable movie (one that most
international buyers will want the moment they see your press kit)
you don’t need AFM. Send your EPK to the buyers right away. You
know how to make the deal and the film will sell itself. Don’t waste
your money at AFM.

As Rik said, I'd suggest getting on the phone to those buyers now.

There are a few results that can happen:

A). They won't take your call. If this is the case, then your only option may be to sell at the AFM as a potential way to get your foot back in the door and build the relationships you'll need to sell your films in the future. Consider marketing your movie more/better.
B). If they'll take your call and buy, then you're all set. No need for AFM.
C). If they take your call and don't buy, then at least you know your movie isn't as sellable as you thought. You might as well not go to the AFM yourself, cut your losses, give it to an agent to sell as a package and move on to your next project.

What concerns me most about your post is: If you've already sold a movie before, that means you have contacts with who to sell to. Why aren't they buying your movie?

 

[Mike Regent]

So you have and “extremely” sellable movie and you have the skills
and knowledge of an excellent sales agent and you have the money
for a booth at AFM.

Then do it.

Frankly if you have an extremely sellable movie (one that most
international buyers will want the moment they see your press kit)
you don’t need AFM. Send your EPK to the buyers right away. You
know how to make the deal and the film will sell itself. Don’t waste
your money at AFM.

Thanks diretorik, I was hoping you would offer your insight...

What you stated above is my plan but a couple of events have got me thinking if it's not superior to still go to AFM.

First, someone is willing to split a booth with me so the cost would be reduced to 5k.

And second, I've met with a couple of sales agents and they are constantly harping about going to all of the markets and making sales there. I'm trying to figure what it is I'm missing by not going to AFM when all sales agents and buyers congregate there. I figure there must be something accomplished at AFM that could not otherwise be accomplished over the phone but I'm trying to figure out (a) what it is, (b) if it's worth 5k to me and (c) if it's even relevant in my current situation.

Thanks again, your thoughts are valued...

 

[Mike Regent]

As Rik said, I'd suggest getting on the phone to those buyers now.

There are a few results that can happen:

A). They won't take your call. If this is the case, then your only option may be to sell at the AFM as a potential way to get your foot back in the door and build the relationships you'll need to sell your films in the future. Consider marketing your movie more/better.
B). If they'll take your call and buy, then you're all set. No need for AFM.
C). If they take your call and don't buy, then at least you know your movie isn't as sellable as you thought. You might as well not go to the AFM yourself, cut your losses, give it to an agent to sell as a package and move on to your next project.

What concerns me most about your post is: If you've already sold a movie before, that means you have contacts with who to sell to. Why aren't they buying your movie?

Thanks Sweetie...
you elegantly outlined my three options. my issue right now though is time. I'm still in post production so I don't want to contact buyers before I have a screener available for them to watch. And then, the availability of the booth is only for a limited time. So I need to make my decision on the booth before I can get concrete responses from buyers.

In your opinion, do you think buyers will take my call? I know some domestic buyers only deal with certain companies but I think foreign is more open...

The previous movie that sold only sold in a few territories. We're still trying to sell the other territories. A sales agent was used to begin with for that one so I wasn't making direct contact with buyers but I learned about the different ranges I could expect. For the territories we did sell I'll definitely use the same contacts.

Thanks