I just finished my first full-length feature screenplay.

[Cracker Funk]

Shooting is scheduled to begin in a month-and-a-half (though, I'm yet to cast one major role). Ultra-low-budget indie.

Anybody wanna read this script and offer brutally honest feedback?

 

[Cracker Funk]

I'm going through this script and I just want to point some weirdness.

1. Earnest is the pot dealer and pretty much that's it. Who cares about cooking? (yeah it kind of pops up later) Who cares about kittens and cats? Seriously, he gets pot from the guy and it takes 3 pages of the script. Earnest doesn't show up again till page 128. He's useless.

2. Jhoanna who is talked about at great length doesn't come into the script till page 40.

3. Candice Stogie's fat chick who is mentioned regarding fried PB sandwiches isn't in the movie at all. He talks about liking her, and she does for him, and we don't see her.

Do you see the problems? This script is all over the place. If you take the meanings of each individual scene it works (kind of). But, just about every piece of dialogue is worthless. It contradicts itself and is self serving. It's all just exposition, and really poor exposition.

1. Earnest ain't no pot dealer. I thought I made that pretty clear, when I had him say "I'm not selling it". We see pictures of Pork Rind, Stogie, Jhoanna and Earnest hanging out with each other on Earnest's fridge. These are friends. The cooking is just what Earnest was in the middle of when Pork Rind knocked on his door, otherwise it's irrelevent, and I can definitely shorten that bit, if not completely remove it. I can't have Pork Rind go straight into asking for pot. Because Earnest isn't a dealer. Pork Rind would be a very poor friend if he didn't at least act like he was there just to visit.

I've heard criticism about the Earnest element, but for the exact opposite reason. I've been told that I'm beating people over the heads with very heavy-handed symbolism. Lainee is a runaway, fending for herself on the streets. Earnest takes in stray cats. Lainee is a runaway. Earnest is relatively well-off, with no significant other, no family. Lainee is a runaway. Earnest can't turn away stray cats. The final image is Lainee holding the stray cat. Do we see where this is going?

2. I definitely take too long getting the story going. You're absolutely right to point this out.

3. Candice is there for no other reason than for Stogie to crack jokes about floppy titties and super-saver bargain discount relationships. You might be right, though, to point this out -- maybe in this 1st draft it sounds like they're girlfriend-boyfriend. Perhaps in the 2nd draft, I shouldn't give this illusion, but make it clear that she's just some girl he's been with, not a close relationship at all.

The dialogue definitely needs work.

Thanks for the notes.

 

[PositiveFuture]

2. I definitely take too long getting the story going. You're absolutely right to point this out.

You can sort this out in the editing room as long as you have the story as good as it can be by the time you shoot.

3. Candice is there for no other reason than for Stogie to crack jokes about floppy titties and super-saver bargain discount relationships.

I haven't read this part but one of the hallmarks of a weak scene is the 'supporting actor as prop'- minor characters that have no soul and just exist for the main guy to bounce off. I would give her something. Look at Kubrick's films; one of the reasons they draw you in totally is because the supporting actors are treated with great care and attention to detail. For example, the camp hotel receptionist in Eyes Wide Shut or the Truant Officer in Clockwork Orange. Notice also, that these two scenes end with a lingering shot on the supporting character, not the main protagonist.

Even if you didn't nail anything in the script your actress might bring something to the role.

ANother thing you might like to think of, if you're a Smith fan, is he rarely lets his actors adlib or change lines. If you did this you might end up with some great additions and more natural sounding dialogue.

 

[Cracker Funk]

ANother thing you might like to think of, if you're a Smith fan, is he rarely lets his actors adlib or change lines. If you did this you might end up with some great additions and more natural sounding dialogue.

That surprises me; I would've thought the opposite. You make a good point, but for logistics sake, we're pretty much just going to have to nix adlibs. To really do them, like Apatow, et. all, I believe they take their time on the set. Time is a luxury we won't have. I am, however, giving my leads (at least all the adult leads) free reign to rewrite their lines to more fit the colloquialisms that more closely fit their own real-life personalities. Hopefully, that might move us closer to the more natural speach you mention.

Also, Candice is not a role in the film. They just talk about her. In one scene. For about 45 seconds. And, a couple of the lines they drop are pretty funny (worked well in the first read-through).

Thanks!

 

[PositiveFuture]

we're pretty much just going to have to nix adlibs.

-If you are clever with shooting cutaways, shots from behind and long shots where mouth movement is indistinguishable because you're so far away, you give yourself a window for altering things later with ADR. Low budget ADR is easily possible.

As this is your first feature, and you are still learning to write scripts (like every filmmaker), doing so would give you a LOT of latitude in post, where you've got a chance to alter things and make up for any mistakes, change storylines and key sequences, and mess about with scene order.

Even with a tight shooting schedule, if you've got what you want in the can, you could then keep rolling and say to the actor, "OK now give me 5 different versions of that line, say it however you want." Just give them the freedom to brainstorm and experiment, invite suggestions from the crew and enjoy it. It'd take literally a minute and might give you some gems. IMO, this stuff is really important. If I was producing this thing, as I said, I'd want 60 minutes of hot footage over 90 of rushed, pressured shooting any day. - the whole thing about DV is we can roll cheap tape and enjoy the freedom.

Even though you're bent on getting it done this summer, remember you can still do reshoots of bits and pieces after September.

Also, Candice is not a role in the film. They just talk about her. In one scene. For about 45 seconds.

My mistake.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Very good idea shooting with ADR in mind. Obviously, I could take that too far, but a great thing to plan for, and I'm not sure I would've thought of that had you not mentioned it.

And, you're right -- we're not going to be so rushed that we can't give a minute or two here and there to adlibs.

Not your mistake with Candice. You haven't read the whole script, and some previous posts in this thread make it sound like she might actually be a character.

Cheers

 

[ussinners]

1. Earnest ain't no pot dealer. I thought I made that pretty clear, when I had him say "I'm not selling it". We see pictures of Pork Rind, Stogie, Jhoanna and Earnest hanging out with each other on Earnest's fridge. These are friends. The cooking is just what Earnest was in the middle of when Pork Rind knocked on his door, otherwise it's irrelevent, and I can definitely shorten that bit, if not completely remove it. I can't have Pork Rind go straight into asking for pot. Because Earnest isn't a dealer. Pork Rind would be a very poor friend if he didn't at least act like he was there just to visit.

I've heard criticism about the Earnest element, but for the exact opposite reason. I've been told that I'm beating people over the heads with very heavy-handed symbolism. Lainee is a runaway, fending for herself on the streets. Earnest takes in stray cats. Lainee is a runaway. Earnest is relatively well-off, with no significant other, no family. Lainee is a runaway. Earnest can't turn away stray cats. The final image is Lainee holding the stray cat. Do we see where this is going?

Okay, here's where character is SO important and I'm up to page 20 or 25.

Eranest doesn't have to take money from Pork Rind, but HE IS Pork's dealer. What did Pork go there for? Pot.

But, let's forget that. Let's talk Earnest's character, and yes let's stereotype him.

We're sitting watching the pot/soup/kitten scene (page 18 - 21)

Here's a black man living in a really nice house, who grows his own weed. He takes in strays and likes to cook.

As an audience member what does Earnest do for a living? How did he go from living close to these two waste-products (they can not be living in a great area) to a nice upper middle class suburban home?

Seriously what's his profession? There's only one, dope dealer. Maybe he's not. But, you haven't shown or told us (in the script) anything else. There isn't a mention of Earnest's job? The only thing we've seen him do is give his friend weed. Who by the way offered to pay for it. So, maybe this is a haven't seen you in a while (that's in there) present. But on all the other occasions Pork paid for it. I don't know, I'm going by your script.

The only thing a viewer can take from this is Earnest is a dope dealer. Which brings me to this: Is Lainee better off at Earnest the dope dealer's house?

I know it sounds like I'm beating the horse to death. But character is important, and I find it hard or almost impossible to believe that from this script you can come up with visuals that will tell us otherwise.

Earnest supposedly takes in stray cats. Cats usually live to 15 - 18 years old. He has quite a few, yet the only one we see is the new kitten. What's up with that? Where's the others?

This is a 3 page scene where everything is explained and literally nothing is shown.

I'm only pointing this out because of your defense of it. I'm not trying to be mean or kick your script. but these things are important to making a good movie.

I know someone was talking about ADR. Have you thought about the fact that most outdoor dialogue is truly hard to capture. I hope you have all your locations picked out. The window Pork's going through. The cars you're going to need to have them pull handles on. There's a lot going on.

 

[Adeimantus]

Hey, Cracker.

Let me try and take a stab at this. I did read the entire script.

There’s a lot to like here. It’s funny; made me laugh out loud, and often. You’ve got some snappy dialogue and a good feel for the absurd, and while you call Pork Rind an anti-hero, he’s an endearing character that you’ve developed fairly well. There’s also some major problems, however. A lot of detail criticism I might level has already been covered. Formatting and grammar problems such as passive verb construction aren’t real issues since you don’t intend to circulate this on the market as a spec script, but intend to shoot from it yourself.

You do need to cut this back at least 20 pages or so, as others have mentioned. There’s a lot of fat here that could be pared without the risk of making it too thin. The break-ins, for example. The “fun and games” meat of the first half could also use another motif; by that, I mean I’d like to have seen PR and Stogie scam some cash using PR’s psychic powers in other cool ways besides B&E’s.

But the real problem here, at least for me, is structural. You’ve got two parallel stories that don’t intersect until page 57, when the dastardly duo stumble upon DJ’s house with Lainee. There’s no rising conflict, REAL conflict, until then. Sure, the bad guys latch on to Lainee early on, but that’s not a problem for our heroes. You’ve got to find a way to make it THEIR problem much earlier.

You’ve also got to find a better way to integrate Jhoanna and Earnest. The only real reason I can see for Jhoanna’s existence is she’s the only one with enough personal responsibility to own and operate a car (a necessary prop). Or get rid of her altogether. Same with Earnest. His bookend appearances don’t amount to much in the way of being NECESSARY. Convenient, maybe, but not plot-dirven.

Here’s where I’d start, were I you:

1. Cut the opening flashback. It’s confusing, and while dramatic in a certain way, it doesn’t frame the movie well with the ending scene.

2. Bring our Dipsy Duo together with Lainee on the street within the first 5 pages. Make her slightly older, maybe 17. I know it’s pushing it, but maybe you see where I’m going when I ALSO suggest you axe Jhoanna completely. (I kinda like her, and I think you do, too, but as Faulkner said, “Kill all your darlings!”) She’s not well developed. I’d be more likely to believe PR’s transformation to a super-hero if it was for love, than if he just stumbled upon the persona. After all, why the hell should he care? Yeah, we saw the “Save the Cat” moment when he gave the money back to the clerk. But you need something more palpable up on the screen than a generic “nice-guy” streak.

3. Make sure you have a solid character sketch of Pork Rind and Lainee that describes what arc they have to follow, from opening scene to closing scene, then use the intervening space to get them there. CHANGE THROUGH TIME. Where is Lainee when PR finds her, where is she going, what does she WANT? Revenge? How does PR change her and how does she change him? SHE could be the catalyst for his super-human psychic ability, after all.

4. Find your midpoint, the point at which everything is absolutely fucked up for the duo and Lainee, where it can’t get any lower, nail up the scene, and drape the second half from there. The bad guys close in, all is lost, Dark Night of the Soul, etc. (I’m using Blake Snyder’s beat-sheet outline here, but there are plenty of other good ones). Bring the conflict between DJ and his minions and Lainee to our Duo’s doorstep MUCH earlier.

5. Use the scene at Lainee’s father’s house as the turning point. You could insert a few flashback memories here that you originally had as an opening scene. You could use what happens in the house to CHANGE both Lainee and PR. For example, Lainee gathers the strength to face up to DJ (a surrogate for her father’s abuse), and PR gathers the strength to admit he loves her, which frees him to finally BE a superhero. Then the two (mustn’t forget good ol’ sidekick Stogie), or three, united and strong, dispatch DJ and his minions.

Just some thoughts. Again, I like this and I think it could be much better. I enjoyed the read, bro.

Best,
-Charles

 

[Cracker Funk]

I know someone was talking about ADR. Have you thought about the fact that most outdoor dialogue is truly hard to capture. I hope you have all your locations picked out. The window Pork's going through. The cars you're going to need to have them pull handles on. There's a lot going on.

Nah, I was planning on just winging it.

As for Earnest, I can see your logic. However, I can deduce a couple things:

-- you've never met a pot dealer (they're barely above the economic level of a busser)
-- you don't smoke pot (standard pot-etiquitte is that if you're bumming weed off a friend, it is polite to offer payment; said friend has option to take payment or turn it down; this transaction does not make one a dope dealer -- if it did, then everyone who smokes pot is a dealer, because they all share with each other)

This movie is clearly aimed at a particular crowd. A crowd that finds jokes about floppy titties and farts funny. A crowd that assumes the exact opposite of you -- the very fact that Earnest is well-off is enough for us to assume that he's not a dealer, but has an actually career. I ain't trying to please the masses, though I can understand how you made your assumptions, so perhaps for those in the audience who've never met a pot dealer, I should place something on the fridge, next to the photos, that would give some indication of his profession. In fact, I probably will take your advice there.

His race shouldn't have anything to do with talk of his profession. I only wrote it in because the role was cast before I wrote it.

And why are you weirded out by upward mobility? Sometimes people move to better neighborhoods. Typically, these people have careers.

EDIT: Please forgive me if it seemed like I snapped at you; I'm quite tired and maybe grumpy.

 

[Buddy Greenfield]

I agree with Charles.

I would be looking at things more like:

When a pair of thieves accidentally kidnap a runaway gifted with psychic abilities…

(Laniee is in a car they steal when its owner starts shooting at them)

I would set up some nonsense like:

Pork and Stogie have smoked their way into debt with the worst dealer in town – A gay one.
When his wampum monkeys come to collect, “Fucking you up” has a whole new meaning!

Laniee is just like any other girl -whose mother died during child birth –by lightening strike.

(So Pork and Stogie have to raise cash by a deadline,
Laniee is on the run - because of her gift someone thinks
she knows more about something than she really does.

Their worlds colide.

At some point Pork and Stogie try to teach her to use her powers to raise cash,
but of course it back fires and creates more complications etc etc

In the end they learn crime doesn’t pay,
In the end she realizes home is where the heart is. )


-Thanks-

 

[Cracker Funk]

Hey, Cracker.

Let me try and take a stab at this. I did read the entire script.

There’s a lot to like here. It’s funny; made me laugh out loud, and often. You’ve got some snappy dialogue and a good feel for the absurd, and while you call Pork Rind an anti-hero, he’s an endearing character that you’ve developed fairly well. There’s also some major problems, however. A lot of detail criticism I might level has already been covered. Formatting and grammar problems such as passive verb construction aren’t real issues since you don’t intend to circulate this on the market as a spec script, but intend to shoot from it yourself.

You do need to cut this back at least 20 pages or so, as others have mentioned. There’s a lot of fat here that could be pared without the risk of making it too thin. The break-ins, for example. The “fun and games” meat of the first half could also use another motif; by that, I mean I’d like to have seen PR and Stogie scam some cash using PR’s psychic powers in other cool ways besides B&E’s.

But the real problem here, at least for me, is structural. You’ve got two parallel stories that don’t intersect until page 57, when the dastardly duo stumble upon DJ’s house with Lainee. There’s no rising conflict, REAL conflict, until then. Sure, the bad guys latch on to Lainee early on, but that’s not a problem for our heroes. You’ve got to find a way to make it THEIR problem much earlier.

You’ve also got to find a better way to integrate Jhoanna and Earnest. The only real reason I can see for Jhoanna’s existence is she’s the only one with enough personal responsibility to own and operate a car (a necessary prop). Or get rid of her altogether. Same with Earnest. His bookend appearances don’t amount to much in the way of being NECESSARY. Convenient, maybe, but not plot-dirven.

Here’s where I’d start, were I you:

1. Cut the opening flashback. It’s confusing, and while dramatic in a certain way, it doesn’t frame the movie well with the ending scene.

2. Bring our Dipsy Duo together with Lainee on the street within the first 5 pages. Make her slightly older, maybe 17. I know it’s pushing it, but maybe you see where I’m going when I ALSO suggest you axe Jhoanna completely. (I kinda like her, and I think you do, too, but as Faulkner said, “Kill all your darlings!”) She’s not well developed. I’d be more likely to believe PR’s transformation to a super-hero if it was for love, than if he just stumbled upon the persona. After all, why the hell should he care? Yeah, we saw the “Save the Cat” moment when he gave the money back to the clerk. But you need something more palpable up on the screen than a generic “nice-guy” streak.

3. Make sure you have a solid character sketch of Pork Rind and Lainee that describes what arc they have to follow, from opening scene to closing scene, then use the intervening space to get them there. CHANGE THROUGH TIME. Where is Lainee when PR finds her, where is she going, what does she WANT? Revenge? How does PR change her and how does she change him? SHE could be the catalyst for his super-human psychic ability, after all.

4. Find your midpoint, the point at which everything is absolutely fucked up for the duo and Lainee, where it can’t get any lower, nail up the scene, and drape the second half from there. The bad guys close in, all is lost, Dark Night of the Soul, etc. (I’m using Blake Snyder’s beat-sheet outline here, but there are plenty of other good ones). Bring the conflict between DJ and his minions and Lainee to our Duo’s doorstep MUCH earlier.

5. Use the scene at Lainee’s father’s house as the turning point. You could insert a few flashback memories here that you originally had as an opening scene. You could use what happens in the house to CHANGE both Lainee and PR. For example, Lainee gathers the strength to face up to DJ (a surrogate for her father’s abuse), and PR gathers the strength to admit he loves her, which frees him to finally BE a superhero. Then the two (mustn’t forget good ol’ sidekick Stogie), or three, united and strong, dispatch DJ and his minions.

Just some thoughts. Again, I like this and I think it could be much better. I enjoyed the read, bro.

Best,
-Charles

Awesome! You've given me some great things to think about. You've mentioned a couple things that I was talking about as problem-points with my friends, way back when I was still just brainstorming. And, you've mentioned a couple things that I hadn't ever thought of. I've got a couple follow-up questions to ask you, but I'm going to save those for another day, as I just finished working 22 hours over a span of 26 (hotel-based restaraunt work can be crazy sometimes).

Thanks, Charles!

 

[ussinners]

Charles' ideas are very good.

I guess where I'm different then most people when reading a screenplay is I think logically about what's going on and the characters involved.

So, here's a few questions regarding Jhoanna's entrance and the rapist beating.

1. Jhoanna is an intelligent smartly dressed student who I'm guessing loves Pork Rind. Why? What have we seen of him that would make someone like her be in love with a pot-head, drunk who works as a bus boy, and robs people's houses on the side? Who, up to this point has no other ambition in life. What's her problem?

2. The Rapist Guy: Why did they run? Why didn't they just point to the passed out chick whose dress or skirt must have been partially up and say "He was trying to rape her". It doesn't make sense. It doesn't take a psychic to see what was happening. Then later Jhoanna says "Lay low because they have your descriptions." What about their names? The person doing the describing didn't have their names? The cops are so stupid they couldn't get the names from Shipley the homeowner, or Jhoanna?

Now, I can answer these questions, but not with the logic of what is being said and done. Because, it doesn't make sense. If written properly, with good characterizations, these questions wouldn't come up at all. Because your characters would be making sense.

 

[ussinners]

Nah, I was planning on just winging it.

As for Earnest, I can see your logic. However, I can deduce a couple things:

-- you've never met a pot dealer (they're barely above the economic level of a busser)
-- you don't smoke pot (standard pot-etiquitte is that if you're bumming weed off a friend, it is polite to offer payment; said friend has option to take payment or turn it down; this transaction does not make one a dope dealer -- if it did, then everyone who smokes pot is a dealer, because they all share with each other)

This movie is clearly aimed at a particular crowd. A crowd that finds jokes about floppy titties and farts funny. A crowd that assumes the exact opposite of you -- the very fact that Earnest is well-off is enough for us to assume that he's not a dealer, but has an actually career. I ain't trying to please the masses, though I can understand how you made your assumptions, so perhaps for those in the audience who've never met a pot dealer, I should place something on the fridge, next to the photos, that would give some indication of his profession. In fact, I probably will take your advice there.

His race shouldn't have anything to do with talk of his profession. I only wrote it in because the role was cast before I wrote it.

And why are you weirded out by upward mobility? Sometimes people move to better neighborhoods. Typically, these people have careers.

EDIT: Please forgive me if it seemed like I snapped at you; I'm quite tired and maybe grumpy.

I'm sorry these are just excuses.

Yep, never met a dealer in my life. I've been extremely sheltered. It's hard to meet one in NYC, especially if you play in a band.

 

[VPTurner]

That's the worst you got for me? Sheeeeiiiiiiit.

But I am only on page 21 of 130 pages.

The beer and drugs are central to the characters of Pork Rind and Stogie. The movie is called "Antihero". The whole point is that we watch a low-life alcoholic pothead petty-thief turn into a hero. The pizza delivery is necessary, because Pork Rind knew he was there before he had any indication that he was there. So then, Stogie puts the thought in his head that he might be psychic (I think I'm going to lose that whole bit about testing him, though).

Right. Saw that transformation played out before in Hancock. Problem for me was the incident with the Homeowner. The "feeling" should have been much stronger, IMHO. But then, as I mentioned, drugs and alcohol can impair sensitivity, so perhaps you could use that angle. With the Homeowner sequence, there was no real obvious demonstration of ESP as there was with the pizza guy.

Earnest and his cats are VERY relavent to the story. Honestly, I'm surprised that it isn't painfully obvious. I'm going to address that issue in the next post (ussinners had the same question).

Not painfully obvious on page 21. Perhaps later in the script. Like I said, I was making notes as I read along. And all the talk of "cats" yet no other visible evidence of them except the one kitten? This was already mentioned - show, don't tell. Way too much talking and not enough showing.

I agree with you that I take too long to get the story going. I actually already had that concern before I sent the screenplay out.

As far as the magic forties are concerned -- they're bussers. It's quite normal for a busser to have money one day, but not the next. Then have money again, then not the next. They work shifts, take home cash, and spend it. In between the time we see Stogie steal beer $, he would've had time to work a shift, perhaps pick up tips waiting for him from a prior shift, perhaps pick up a paycheck. I suppose it wouldn't hurt for me to place a paystub somewhere on the table, just so people don't have the same question as you.

But the problem is you are assuming your audience knows everything about "bussers" and will come to that conclusion. All I saw was an entire sequence devoted to them going out of their way to get a couple of 40 ouncers. And then suddenly another one appeared out of nowhere. Where did it come from? Why did they have to go through all that effort? Why did you even bother to show it if you could just simply manifest one at will?

I know why. The questions are rhetorical. You needed a device to demonstrate that Pork Rind had some chivalry lurking beneath an otherwise not very likable character. Just more opportunity to evaluate your method and tighten it up, removing non relevant exposition and banter.

Uhhh, I don't believe in ESP. It's supernatural. So I'm not really going for plausibility.

Interesting. One very important step in the writing process is research. You don't have to believe in something to write about it and have a character believe it. It does help to write what you know when you're first getting started, though. That's why you'll hear that mantra a lot. Write about what you know and what matters to you. You'll have a better chance of connecting with your audience (and your reader) if what you're presenting is believable. You must "suspend my disbelief" in order to effectively bring me into your imagined world.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm discounting your notes. I'm appreciative of the fact that you're giving them, and I am taking everything you're offering in. Thanks.

It's your baby. It's clear you spent a considerable amount of time putting it together. It's not easy to take criticism. I know. Been there. You take it very well. If you didn't defend it, only then would I worry. You'll get plenty of opportunity to defend your decisions as your career progresses. There are no shortages of critics and opinions in the world.

EDIT: He DID know that Homeowner was home. He says "It just doesn't feel right". But he doesn't yet know that he's psychic; doesn't know he can trust his feelings on this. Then, he has that moment when he is really weirded out by the door in the hall. He knows something's up with that room, but again, he can't explain the feelings he's having.

A bit subtle (with plenty of non-ESP related explanations on what led him to check the door), and then a giant leap to the pizza guy and testing. At least that's how it came across.

Anyway, I'll hold off on further commentary until I've had a chance to read through the entire script. Been a busy few days. Besides, a few have already summed it up nicely for you. No need to nitpick continuously.

On a positive note, there is a story here. And there is writing potential. Don't get discouraged. We all have to start somewhere. Although it will never get easy. In fact, as you learn to become your own worst critic after learning the rules and making some mistakes, writing gets even harder and more time consuming. You'll throw away more than you present. And that's a good thing. Writing is rewriting.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Charles' ideas are very good.

I guess where I'm different then most people when reading a screenplay is I think logically about what's going on and the characters involved.

So, here's a few questions regarding Jhoanna's entrance and the rapist beating.

1. Jhoanna is an intelligent smartly dressed student who I'm guessing loves Pork Rind. Why? What have we seen of him that would make someone like her be in love with a pot-head, drunk who works as a bus boy, and robs people's houses on the side? Who, up to this point has no other ambition in life. What's her problem?

2. The Rapist Guy: Why did they run? Why didn't they just point to the passed out chick whose dress or skirt must have been partially up and say "He was trying to rape her". It doesn't make sense. It doesn't take a psychic to see what was happening. Then later Jhoanna says "Lay low because they have your descriptions." What about their names? The person doing the describing didn't have their names? The cops are so stupid they couldn't get the names from Shipley the homeowner, or Jhoanna?

Now, I can answer these questions, but not with the logic of what is being said and done. Because, it doesn't make sense. If written properly, with good characterizations, these questions wouldn't come up at all. Because your characters would be making sense.

Okay, you're the anti-me. I get it. If you're in a band, wink-wink, how do you not know that weed smokers share with each other all the damn time? Why would you think that if someone offers money, then the other person is a dealer? That's just straight-up nonsense. And, how do you not know that pot dealers ARE NOT well-off? I don't think I'm making excuses; I think I've painted Earnest as very much NOT a pot dealer.

Dude, are you reading the script LOOKING for ways to nitpick? Why did they run after they beat the rapists' ass? Because the girl who saw them beating his ass didn't get the context. She wasn't there to see them bust in on him trying to rape her. She just sees a couple thugs beating a guy up. So she calls 9-1-1. Totally reasonable. In a large frat-party-setting, shit like this happens (except for the psychic superhero part). Why do the police have their descriptions, but not their names? Seriously?!!!! At a large party like this, everybody doesn't know everybody. So, someone like Freakout Girl can give a physical description to police. You think the first instinct for Jhoanna and Shipley is to rat out their friends? Wow.

I'm not making excuses. You're nitpicking.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Whoah. Consider my world rocked. First of all, it's nice to see another STC-ologist on here. I really like Snyder's overrall structure, his organizational tools helped me a lot, and I really like some of his other little nuggets, like the Pope in the Pool, etc.

You do need to cut this back at least 20 pages or so, as others have mentioned. There’s a lot of fat here that could be pared without the risk of making it too thin. The break-ins, for example. The “fun and games” meat of the first half could also use another motif; by that, I mean I’d like to have seen PR and Stogie scam some cash using PR’s psychic powers in other cool ways besides B&E’s.

I like that. Could make the fun more fun by adding variety to their scheming ways.

But the real problem here, at least for me, is structural. You’ve got two parallel stories that don’t intersect until page 57, when the dastardly duo stumble upon DJ’s house with Lainee. There’s no rising conflict, REAL conflict, until then. Sure, the bad guys latch on to Lainee early on, but that’s not a problem for our heroes. You’ve got to find a way to make it THEIR problem much earlier.

Dude, that's been problem #1 since the beginning; When I first conceptualized this story, it was more of a superhero movie. But, when we hit that turning point, when Pork Rind begins to use his power for good, I couldn't figure out how he and Stogie were going to find a missing child. The idea of Lainee came WAY after the story had been at least half-developed. Originally, the second act was going to be investigative stuff -- searching for missing child, with help of psychic power. Realistically, I just didn't see any way that two young punks could pull this off, not in the real world.

Then, a friend of mine mentioned that perhaps the kid on the milk carton is the kid he stumbled upon and gave CPR to. And from there, Lainee's story blossomed, and in many ways usurped Pork Rind's. Back when we were brainstorming, my biggest concern was that we had two seperate stories that we were shmushing together. The opening image of Lainee running away, with the parallel storytelling thereafter, was intended as a way of letting the audience know that hey, this isn't just Pork Rind's story; pay attention to this runaway kid.

You’ve also got to find a better way to integrate Jhoanna and Earnest. The only real reason I can see for Jhoanna’s existence is she’s the only one with enough personal responsibility to own and operate a car (a necessary prop). Or get rid of her altogether. Same with Earnest. His bookend appearances don’t amount to much in the way of being NECESSARY. Convenient, maybe, but not plot-dirven.

Jhoanna is supposed to be the love-interest. Except it never materializes. She's intended to be a tease -- to the audience. To be frank, I had no other reason to do this than the fact that it fits Pork Rind's character (as does it fit MANY "nice guys" across this nation). Uhhh, I suppose this is the point at which I admit I'm "writing what I know". I've debated with myself, a lot, whether or not to throw out this tease, and just give Pork Rind and Jhoanna the classic, cheesy, finally-we-kiss moment, after the climactic finale. And, the debate continues. Your thoughts?

2. Bring our Dipsy Duo together with Lainee on the street within the first 5 pages. Make her slightly older, maybe 17. I know it’s pushing it, but maybe you see where I’m going when I ALSO suggest you axe Jhoanna completely. (I kinda like her, and I think you do, too, but as Faulkner said, “Kill all your darlings!”) She’s not well developed. I’d be more likely to believe PR’s transformation to a super-hero if it was for love, than if he just stumbled upon the persona. After all, why the hell should he care? Yeah, we saw the “Save the Cat” moment when he gave the money back to the clerk. But you need something more palpable up on the screen than a generic “nice-guy” streak.

Funny you should say that. By reason of logistics of casting, I might be forced to make Lainee 17. And, yeah, you're killing my darling, but I see what you're getting at, and that is some damn-good drama you're offering. Love is a much stronger motivation for transformation than some speach about stray cats.

3. Make sure you have a solid character sketch of Pork Rind and Lainee that describes what arc they have to follow, from opening scene to closing scene, then use the intervening space to get them there. CHANGE THROUGH TIME. Where is Lainee when PR finds her, where is she going, what does she WANT? Revenge? How does PR change her and how does she change him? SHE could be the catalyst for his super-human psychic ability, after all.

4. Find your midpoint, the point at which everything is absolutely fucked up for the duo and Lainee, where it can’t get any lower, nail up the scene, and drape the second half from there. The bad guys close in, all is lost, Dark Night of the Soul, etc. (I’m using Blake Snyder’s beat-sheet outline here, but there are plenty of other good ones). Bring the conflict between DJ and his minions and Lainee to our Duo’s doorstep MUCH earlier.

5. Use the scene at Lainee’s father’s house as the turning point. You could insert a few flashback memories here that you originally had as an opening scene. You could use what happens in the house to CHANGE both Lainee and PR. For example, Lainee gathers the strength to face up to DJ (a surrogate for her father’s abuse), and PR gathers the strength to admit he loves her, which frees him to finally BE a superhero. Then the two (mustn’t forget good ol’ sidekick Stogie), or three, united and strong, dispatch DJ and his minions.

Really, these are some VERY good ideas. Ideas that I sincerely hope I can find a way to work in to the rewrite. The problem now is time. The FINAL draft is due at the end of this month, and that is a very real deadline. Of all the things you mention, Lainee as love-interest is so much stronger than what I've got. Now, how do I rewrite the entire damn story in just a couple weeks? Agggghhhhhh!!!!!!

 

[VPTurner]

Whoah. Consider my world rocked. First of all, it's nice to see another STC-ologist on here. I really like Snyder's overrall structure, his organizational tools helped me a lot, and I really like some of his other little nuggets, like the Pope in the Pool, etc.

I can't watch a movie anymore without seeing the BS2. It's everywhere. Blake nailed it. Either that, or there are more fans and practitioners of his method than ever before.

I can say the same for Karl Iglesias's teachings. In fact, there's a disclaimer at the beginning of his book, "Writing for Emotional Impact". It warns you that you will never watch a movie the same way again. The magician is revealing his secrets.

You should see my bulletin board. It's filled with 3x5 cards. And all of them have bits of Snyder's BS2 written on the top. I've tried several methods to outline over the years. Eventually, I will take pieces of everything I've learned and craft my own, one that works well for me.

I'll spend a considerable amount of time planning a story, and more often than not I'll trash it and start over because I didn't like the "movie". It wasn't something I'd pay to see, or it became something I'd seen before. The collective unconscious is a bitch. But I will finish this current project hell or high water. I hope I can get it past the outline phase. There are some interesting concepts and characters taking shape. I'd like to see this movie.

Enough about me, though. This is about you and your story.

 

[Adeimantus]

Hi, Cracker.

I don’t have an answer for you on the time constraints. Do you write fast? Heh.

If you develop a SOLID outline over the next few days and begin writing, I suppose you could write-as-you-shoot whatever scenes you don’t have time to get to. You’ve got a LOT of material to draw-steal-edit from. A good writer (and you’re a good writer) knows how to steal nuggets from their own writing and adapt them to new requirements.

I’m more convinced than ever that you need to scrap the Jhoanna char, and go with Lainee as love-interest. I also think you need a B-story, and Earnest and his cats would work perfectly, but they need to be more fully integrated. Earnest’s relationship with his cats TEACHES PR something about love and responsibility. Have you ever read Antoine de Saint-Exupery’s “The Little Prince?” A major theme articulated by the Fox is “You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.” PR has “tamed” Lainee in a way, and Earnest teaches PR that he can’t abandon Lainee in her time of need, no matter what the danger is, etc.

I’d have PR’s and Lainee’s early relationship be a rocky one. Most cool screen romances begin with a war between the two protagonists. You can integrate some of the playful sparring between Jhoanna and PR into Lainee’s character. That “war” could include Lainee’s decision to, initially, go with DJ rather than seek help from PR and Stogie.

Cool you dig Snyder, too! Use his beat-sheet and nail up the scenes you’ve currently got in the appropriate place. Then you’ll know which major beats you still need to nail down with new material. Fill in the empty spaces with fun and games, and you’ve got a rock-solid plotted script. I’ll post Snyder’s outline for those who don’t know what we’re talking about below—


Beat Sheet (script page-numbers in parenthesis) and my notes on Snyder’s beats follow:

ACT ONE

1. Opening Image (1)

2. Theme Stated (5)

3. Set-Up (1 – 10)

4. Catalyst (12)

5. Debate (12 – 25)

6. Break into Act Two (25)


ACT TWO

7. B Story (30)

8. Fun and Games (30 – 55)

9. Midpoint (55)

10. Bad Guys Close In (55 – 75)

11. All is Lost (75)

12. Dark Night of the Soul (75 – 85)

13. Break into Act Three (85)


ACT THREE

14. Finale (85 – 110)

15. Final Image (110)




1. Opening Image: Sets the tone and mood. Bookends with Final Image to show CHANGE: before and after snapshots.

2. Theme Stated: Have someone pose the theme casually in a statement or question. E.g., “Be careful what you wish for,” or ‘Pride goeth before the fall,” etc. Be up front in showing audience what it is you are setting out to prove or demonstrate.

3. Set-Up: The first ten minutes sets up the “hero,” the stakes, and the goal of the story. Hint at or introduce every character in the A story. SHOW what is missing in the hero’s life, why it needs fixing. Establishes a sense that a storm is about to hit: Things MUST change.

4. Catalyst: You’ve set up the world “before” the storm, and now you introduce what it is that will knock down that world: a telegram, catching a lover in bed with another person, news you have three days to live, whatever.

5. Debate: Last chance for hero to make a decision: “should I go?” “Dare I go?” “Stay here?” “Run?” “Fight?” Must ask a question of some kind. A moment of truth.

6. Break into Act Two: Here is the point where we leave the old world behind and proceed into the new world, an upside-down world, the antithesis of the old world. The hero must DECIDE to step into Act Two, not drift into it: PROACTIVE.

7. B Story: The secondary story that mirrors the A story: ongoing secondary characters and their dramas -- a love interest, a comedic incident or whatever. It smoothes over the obvious break into Act Two and gives us a breather, gives us some “cutaways” from the A story.

8. Fun and Games: Provides the PROMISE OF THE PREMISE. Delivers on the theme, answers question “Why did I come to see this movie?” Heart of the movie.

9. Midpoint: Halfway through Act Two. The hero either reaches their peak here, and everything goes downhill, or they reach bottom and can only go up. This mirrors the “All is Lost” section, which is a kind of “false defeat.” It’s never as good as it seems to be at the “Midpoint,” nor is it as bad as it seems to be in “All is Lost” section, OR VICE VERSA.

When writing the screenplay, nail up the scene you want to be at the “Midpoint” and then use it to drape the rest of the movie.


10. Bad Guys Close In: The point where the Bad Guys decide to regroup and send in the heavy artillery. It’s the point where internal dissent, doubt and jealousy begin to disintegrate the hero’s team. Evil is not giving up and tightens its grip. The hero has no help and he/she is on their own.

11. All is Lost: The hero’s life is in shambles. Wreckage abounds and there is no hope. The whiff of death can be smelled.

12. Dark Night of the Soul: This is the darkness just before the dawn, the point where the hero reaches deep down and pulls out that last, best idea that will save them and everyone around them, but AT THE MOMENT, that idea is nowhere to be found. This is the point where the hero is beaten, and MUST KNOW THEY ARE BEATEN, in order to learn the lesson that will save them.

13. Break into Act Three: Huzzah! The solution! Thanks to the B story and thanks to the hero’s “heroic” effort to reach down deep to find a way to beat the Bad Guys, lo! The answer is found! Thanks to the intertwining of the A story and the B story, the hero has the solution and now must apply it. For example, here is a classic fusing of A and B stories: the hero gets a clue from his girlfriend (B story) that makes him realize how to beat the Bad Guys (A story) AND win the heart of his beloved. Synthesis is at hand.

14. Finale: Triumph for our hero. The old world is turned over and a new world is created, based on what our hero has learned in the antithetical world of Act Two. All the Bad Guys are dispatched in ascending order: foot-soldiers and Lieutenants die first, then The Boss. The chief source of “the problem,” a person or thing, must die for the new world-order to exist.

15. Final Image: This is the OPPOSITE of the Opening Image. It is proof that change/growth has occurred and is real, and that the premise has been proven.

Go for it, bro. You can do it!

-Charles

 

[ussinners]

Okay, you're the anti-me. I get it. If you're in a band, wink-wink, how do you not know that weed smokers share with each other all the damn time? Why would you think that if someone offers money, then the other person is a dealer? That's just straight-up nonsense. And, how do you not know that pot dealers ARE NOT well-off? I don't think I'm making excuses; I think I've painted Earnest as very much NOT a pot dealer.

Dude, are you reading the script LOOKING for ways to nitpick? Why did they run after they beat the rapists' ass? Because the girl who saw them beating his ass didn't get the context. She wasn't there to see them bust in on him trying to rape her. She just sees a couple thugs beating a guy up. So she calls 9-1-1. Totally reasonable. In a large frat-party-setting, shit like this happens (except for the psychic superhero part). Why do the police have their descriptions, but not their names? Seriously?!!!! At a large party like this, everybody doesn't know everybody. So, someone like Freakout Girl can give a physical description to police. You think the first instinct for Jhoanna and Shipley is to rat out their friends? Wow.

I'm not making excuses. You're nitpicking.

I've been in bands since the late 70s. My very first gig (we sucked) was so original and loud, we were allowed to play every Tuesday night. We didn't get paid in money, we were paid in Opium.

I've smoked (not for years) everything that's naturally grown. I've known and hung out with dealers, users and everyone in between. No one I've known just gives baggies away, unless the person giving it was a dealer. Because they have the supply. My friend pays $100 for weed, he ain't passing it out to everyone. He'll pass the pipe but he ain't giving you a baggie full. If you're going to a concert and ask for a joint or two, no problem. But, not here, here's half my stash. I've never seen it happen, and probably never will.

You're right, I'm nit picking. Because every scene can be nit-picked. Unfortunately because the characters aren't there. VPTurner/Charles and one or two others are saying the same thing as me, just in different ways.

You have a story. But, the way you've TOLD us (because you're not SHOWING us) leads to all the inconsistansies in the story. And, I'm sorry; Your responses are like that of someone who has his first draft reviewed; poor excuses.

If you had defined characters, you wouldn't have these confusions. If your dialogue was natural and not forced exposition you certainly wouldn't have these inconsistancies. That's the problem, it's a first draft, and when you re-write, most everything has to go.

But, here's one question and be HONEST. Don't make something up NOW. If he were a REAL CHARACTER in your story, you would know BEFORE he was put on paper. Because he's an important element. At the end, Lainee is going to be staying with him.

What is Earnest's job?

 

[VPTurner]

Okay, script completed. And unfortunately Buddy is right. Act I had some interesting story ideas happening, and then the story went to La La Land.

Just some random observations:

Pork Rind has a criminal record, yet has no problem using his real ID to drop stolen goods off at pawn shops knowing good and well that they have to hold items for police scrutiny and report any suspicious activity. Bag after bag of stuff from his "grandma" certainly wouldn't be suspicious, huh?

Police didn't come knocking, asking questions when they got a 9-1-1 call from his cell phone and finding a half dead, heavily drugged 15 year old girl?

Dog incident - finding missing dog - relevant to the story, or just more exposition to demonstrate his ability? You have already established his abilities. Why continue the exposition? Get to the real story and stop beating around the bush.

Page 66 - Character reference to Lainee speaking, but Lainee isn't there.

Page 67 - Lainee is a registered missing person, yet no one cares enough about her to visit her? If no one cared, who filed the missing person's report? I would not say that was an "educated guess" on Jhoanna's part given those circumstances. More like luck. And surely Lainee would be on suicide watch. And in a hospital bed recovering from drug overdose with I.V. fluids pumping.

Page 71 - At 15, now that Lainee is in custody as a runaway and a suicide risk, she is no longer in control of where she goes and with whom she stays. Her destiny is now under the control of Child Protective Services. Jhoanna should know that since you are portraying her as someone wise in such things.

Page 80-82 - Lainee would probably have been in a more secure location under the circumstances, closer to a halfway house than a group home. She took a drug overdose and she's a known flight risk. And she's awfully chipper and alert for someone who just had a near death experience. What is the time span from page 71 to page 82? Did we hit a time warp? From near death to group home in less than ten minutes of screen time?

And now we're back in cooking class...

Cops would be descending on this group faster than you could chop that onion. Those are truly the "bad guys" in your anti-hero scenario that you've created up to this point, yet you don't demonstrate anyone or anything closing in on them. Thus, no rising action leading to a climax.

Instead we watch them cook, play games, attend class, go to the movies, teach each other a fictional language, participate in a nice musical montage, do their laundry, watch TV...

And then again we have to watch Pork Rind demonstrate his amazing ability.

And after more robberies, more trips to the store... Page 114.

Finally, we will get to see Pork Rind unleash his superhero wrath to save the day. And...

Lainee saves herself? And then saves Pork Rind? Huh?!?

You failed to deliver on the premise.

 

[Cracker Funk]

I've smoked (not for years) everything that's naturally grown. I've known and hung out with dealers, users and everyone in between. No one I've known just gives baggies away, unless the person giving it was a dealer. Because they have the supply. My friend pays $100 for weed, he ain't passing it out to everyone. He'll pass the pipe but he ain't giving you a baggie full. If you're going to a concert and ask for a joint or two, no problem. But, not here, here's half my stash. I've never seen it happen, and probably never will.

Heh. That's weird. Just goes to show that you (the general "you") can't stereotype the whole world. Me and my friends pass it around freely. Little baggies. I'm not talking about an eighth, for crying out loud. But if you're out, can't get a fresh supply, sure, I'll toss a dime your way. So, maybe to make it clear that that's what Earnest is doing, I show that he's just breaking off a little nugget, not giving a large bag.

You're right, I'm nit picking. Because every scene can be nit-picked. Unfortunately because the characters aren't there. VPTurner/Charles and one or two others are saying the same thing as me, just in different ways.

And I do want you to know that your nitpicking isn't going wasted (see above; and in the rewrite, Earnest will have something posted on the fridge, or hanging from the wall, that would indicate profession).

But, here's one question and be HONEST. Don't make something up NOW. If he were a REAL CHARACTER in your story, you would know BEFORE he was put on paper. Because he's an important element. At the end, Lainee is going to be staying with him.

What is Earnest's job?

Earnest is based on a real person. He's retired. Honestly, for the script, I didn't think it mattered what his profession was. I only wanted to show that he's well-off, gay, alone, and charitable to those in need. The thought never crossed my mind that people would assume he's a dealer. A question for you -- off all the pot dealers you've known, how many of them lived in nicely decorated, upper-middle class houses? Your answer to that question is a moot point, cuz I'm taking your suggestions on Earnest, just to play it safe.