pre-pro How true is this?

So my goal for the year 2021 is to make a feature film. I have never done one before but I have a couple of ideas on how film works with the little experience I have in a media firm where I work full-time.

So with my goal in mind, I asked a production manager on how best to go about making my film and if I need to make a short first and he said NO.

He pointed out that I will be burning just as much energy and time making a short as I would making a feature film. So why not simply go ahead with the feature.

So I just want to know if he is right by this because I have heard severally shorts are the rites of passage to being a filmmaker.
 
If you think you can make a good feature film with the budget you have (or will raise), that is the right way to go. The issue of course is you say you have little experience, so you have no way to know if you are capable of making a good film, whether it be a feature or a short. Your friend is right, all things being equal, it's better to make a feature, because you might actually be able to sell it and get the money back to whoever put up the money for it. Also, as a calling card or rite of passage, there is nothing better than making a good feature to show the world you know how to make a good feature.

However, it's unlikely that all things will be equal. The biggest question will be money. Will you have the money to make a quality feature? These days, it's possible to make something that looks and sounds pretty good with a very small budget, but that takes convincing skilled practitioners to help you for little or no money (like actors, cinematographer, sound mixer, editor... and even a production manager) and a very special director to pull it off.

All that said, there is a lot of opportunity to showcase your talent by making a short. So, it's not a mistake to go that route if you can only raise a small budget or you want to test the waters as a new filmmaker.

A final note. I find it so interesting how many people think they can jump into filmmaking and risk large sums of money on their limited knowledge or ability. Would anyone fly an airplane, because they they watched lots of airplanes takeoff and land at the airport? Construct a bridge across a river with no mechanical engineering background because they've taken a lot of pictures of bridges? For sure there is some magic in making a film and having it appeal to audiences, but as someone who's been in and out of the business for many, many years it still kind of surprises me how many people think they have a knack for this without spending years at the craft. Whether you make a feature or a short, your film will be trying to gain attention in a sea of aspiring filmmakers. Now, more than ever. Many, many of these people have dedicated years of their lives to learning and practicing the craft of filmmaking. I totally get the human urge to express something to the world, but when it comes to filmmaking there is a lot of craft that goes into the art. That might also be worth considering.
 
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So my goal for the year 2021 is to make a feature film. I have never done one before but I have a couple of ideas on how film works with the little experience I have in a media firm where I work full-time.

So with my goal in mind, I asked a production manager on how best to go about making my film and if I need to make a short first and he said NO.

He pointed out that I will be burning just as much energy and time making a short as I would making a feature film. So why not simply go ahead with the feature.

So I just want to know if he is right by this because I have heard severally shorts are the rites of passage to being a filmmaker.
I wrote this in 2 hours and filmed it in one day.

There is no way on earth that you could accomplish a feature film in that sort of timeline.
I have to strongly disagree that it takes just as much energy and time making a short.
 
Whether making a short or a feature, it all starts with the story. So figure out the story you want to tell, write it, and see if you can put together the resources to shoot it. If it's too big for what you can realistically do this year, cut it down to something workable and go from there.
 
He pointed out that I will be burning just as much energy and time making a short as I would making a feature film. So why not simply go ahead with the feature.
Not very accurate. My first serious short took a day to write, about two weeks to
prep and one day to shoot. My second took about the same to write but because
it was very special effects heavy it took about four weeks to prep. Two days to shoot.

My first feature took me about 6 weeks to write, 9 months in prep and a very short
shooting schedule of 18 days.

So I just want to know if he is right by this because I have heard severally shorts are the rites of passage to being a filmmaker.
He's not right about the energy and time. It takes far more of both to shoot a feature
than a short. Making a few short films is not only a rite of passage but an excellent way
to learn and to build a team.

But I know that jumping right into a feature is possible. If you think you're ready, go for it!
 
You can learn a lot from making a short. There are so many flaws I discover for me as an director in the 48H I participated. The good ting is that it is a short. So if tings start falling apart, you only waste one or 2 day's. If you make a future and tings start falling apart on day 2.... your entire project will suffer. You use a short to work on yourself and discover how to work with people. If your confident you have the skills ( perhaps the media firm you work gave you the experience) .........go for it.
 
The difference between a short and a feature is scale. Instead of two or three days of shooting you now have three or four weeks, possibly quite a bit more. Can you get cast and crew to commit for that period of time? You have to coordinate all of the on and off camera personnel, feed them, possibly house them, get them from location to location, etc. There is a vastly more involved preproduction and post production as well.

It's the financial and logistical management that become so incredibly complex when shooting a feature, not to mention the commitment from all concerned, and the only way to get quality people to commit is to pay them. And you are going to be responsible for all of it. The pressure is enormous, as is the time commitment.

Is it possible to shoot a feature of passable quality on a micro budget with a minimal cast and crew? Absolutely. But, again, it all comes down to your commitment and organizational skills. An exhaustively detailed preproduction becomes even more important, and your leadership must be extremely steadfast and unflagging while presenting a positive attitude to all concerned, no matter how FUBAR the situations become and how you are feeling internally.

Doing a few shorts gives you a way to make mistakes inexpensively. As always, I suggest that you work on other peoples projects. Look on it as a free educational experience. You'll see what works and what doesn't. And you'll find people with whom you want to work and, those you don't. That may be the most important aspect of all, building your network of like-minded people, not to mention the pile of favors you will accumulate.

Good Luck!!!
 
Maxdosh, I have a few questions:

Do you have a script you believe in?
Do you have access to talent?
You have a production manager - does he have access to a good crew?
 
Doing a few shorts gives you a way to make mistakes inexpensively. As always, I suggest that you work on other peoples projects. Look on it as a free educational experience. You'll see what works and what doesn't. And you'll find people with whom you want to work and, those you don't. That may be the most important aspect of all, building your network of like-minded people, not to mention the pile of favors you will accumulate.

Good Luck!!!

Hey, thanks so much for this. I think this is the answer I was looking for. Working On People's projects. I can shoot, write and edit but the truth is I have never been on a film set working. Well, except for just watching what the rest are doing. Truth is, if I am able to follow this advice I can confidently ask for favors and that goes a long way in making my goal achievable.
 
Thank you for your response and wisdom on this. I truly appreciate it

If you think you can make a good feature film with the budget you have (or will raise), that is the right way to go. The issue of course is you say you have little experience, so you have no way to know if you are capable of making a good film, whether it be a feature or a short. Your friend is right, all things being equal, it's better to make a feature, because you might actually be able to sell it and get the money back to whoever put up the money for it. Also, as a calling card or rite of passage, there is nothing better than making a good feature to show the world you know how to make a good feature.

However, it's unlikely that all things will be equal. The biggest question will be money. Will you have the money to make a quality feature? These days, it's possible to make something that looks and sounds pretty good with a very small budget, but that takes convincing skilled practitioners to help you for little or no money (like actors, cinematographer, sound mixer, editor... and even a production manager) and a very special director to pull it off.

All that said, there is a lot of opportunity to showcase your talent by making a short. So, it's not a mistake to go that route if you can only raise a small budget or you want to test the waters as a new filmmaker.

A final note. I find it so interesting how many people think they can jump into filmmaking and risk large sums of money on their limited knowledge or ability. Would anyone fly an airplane, because they they watched lots of airplanes takeoff and land at the airport? Construct a bridge across a river with no mechanical engineering background because they've taken a lot of pictures of bridges? For sure there is some magic in making a film and having it appeal to audiences, but as someone who's been in and out of the business for many, many years it still kind of surprises me how many people think they have a knack for this without spending years at the craft. Whether you make a feature or a short, your film will be trying to gain attention in a sea of aspiring filmmakers. Now, more than ever. Many, many of these people have dedicated years of their lives to learning and practicing the craft of filmmaking. I totally get the human urge to express something to the world, but when it comes to filmmaking there is a lot of craft that goes into the art. That might also be worth considering.

I wrote this in 2 hours and filmed it in one day.

There is no way on earth that you could accomplish a feature film in that sort of timeline.
I have to strongly disagree that it takes just as much energy and time making a short.

Whether making a short or a feature, it all starts with the story. So figure out the story you want to tell, write it, and see if you can put together the resources to shoot it. If it's too big for what you can realistically do this year, cut it down to something workable and go from there.

Not very accurate. My first serious short took a day to write, about two weeks to
prep and one day to shoot. My second took about the same to write but because
it was very special effects heavy it took about four weeks to prep. Two days to shoot.

My first feature took me about 6 weeks to write, 9 months in prep and a very short
shooting schedule of 18 days.


He's not right about the energy and time. It takes far more of both to shoot a feature
than a short. Making a few short films is not only a rite of passage but an excellent way
to learn and to build a team.

But I know that jumping right into a feature is possible. If you think you're ready, go for it!

You can learn a lot from making a short. There are so many flaws I discover for me as an director in the 48H I participated. The good ting is that it is a short. So if tings start falling apart, you only waste one or 2 day's. If you make a future and tings start falling apart on day 2.... your entire project will suffer. You use a short to work on yourself and discover how to work with people. If your confident you have the skills ( perhaps the media firm you work gave you the experience) .........go for it.
 
> I asked a production manager on how best to go about making my film and if I need to make a short first and he said NO.

You don't have to make shorts first, but the issue you're going to run into it: You don't know what you don't know. You won't have the experience to draw upon to know if you're being taken for a ride.

I've seen many inexperienced filmmakers (usually actors or writers overly keen to get their stuff made) taken advantage when they make their first feature film too soon. There are too many people in the industry who know how to extract all your money and resources from inexperienced filmmakers trying to make their first film, who promise the world, and never get your film across the finish line.... cause you don't know you'll need something else done for your film, which will cost you more money each and every time.

Part of the problem with inexperienced film makers is, you don't know where the half way mark is. If you run out of 2/3 of your money and you're not half way through, when do you pull the plug? If you're half way, you may decide to invest a little more. If you make an assumption you're half way but 2/3 through your money and need to double down. You may find out later you were only 1/4 way through. The extra investment got you to the half way mark. Now you've sunk a lot of money and you have half a film. You either need to abandon it or double down again. So now you're left with the prospect of losing twice as much, or spending 4 times as much (assuming you're right about being half way now).

With a short you still don't know, but the journey is shorter. The costs are lower (in both cash or sweat equity). The risks are lower. It's also easier to find volunteers for a few days, than for a commitment to someone who doesn't know what they're doing. In making shorts, you'll learn a chunk (not all) of what you'll learn doing a feature in a shorter time scale.

There's a chance you'll find trustworthy, experienced people who won't take you for a ride. Do you know how to tell who you have?

Basically speaking, your inexperience can get you in financial hot water.
 
What it all comes down is knowledge and experience. Knowledge and experience come from practicing your craft on a regular basis.

Whether it's sports, or the arts, or business, or the sciences, no one starts at the top. But, for some reason there are many, especially in the entertainment arts, who think that they can skip the interim steps. If someone handed you a guitar you would not immediately start playing like Jimi Hendrix. You need to learn to play chords and lines, you need to learn to tune and maintain your guitar.

Hey! I learned six chords and three lines! I'm ready to record an album and do an arena tour!

Not very realistic, is it? Even Hendrix spent many hours practicing and playing many, many crappy gigs. Yet some writers think that their first script is a summer blockbuster or an Oscar winner or both.

Do some shorts. Work on the projects of others. Build your base of knowledge and experience, start building your network.

I have a couple of ideas on how film works with the little experience I have in a media firm where I work full-time.

I would wager that you really have little idea of how making a film works. As Thomas Edison is quoted to have said, "Success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration." Even in my craft of audio post I spend a great deal of time organizing before recording or editing one sound. On a feature, depending upon the genre, I may take one or two weeks doing nothing but prep work. I need to coordinate with the director and/or the producer on scheduling and budget. I have to create cue sheets for DX (Dialog), Foley and Sound Effects. I have to co-ordinate with the composer. I may have to schedule ADR sessions. I may have to rent gear and into the field to capture the raw material for sound effects. Then I can start working the audio, which is what I really want to do.

Every other film craft requires just as much, if not more, prep before getting to the fun stuff - like actually shooting. But shooting your film will not be fun if you don't do a thorough, extremely detailed preproduction. And don't forget about having to do all of this within the constrictions of your budget.

As Sweetie mentioned, there are many people more than willing to take advantage of your inexperience. Only by expanding your knowledge and experience base will you learn to avoid these types of people.

I did lots of shorts for free when I started out in audio post. I made lots of mistakes - fortunately I could correct them before they left my studio - but learned from each one of them. By the time I started charging for my efforts I had worked most of the kinks out of my process, increased my efficiency, and my studio had become an instrument I could play instinctually.

Get out there and work on other projects. Learn, learn, learn. Network, network, network. And don't be upset if you never make your own film, as you may find that one of the other film crafts is much more to your liking and more in line with your strengths. I was never a song-writer, but I could arrange & produce other writers songs, and get musicians to give great performances. So I may not have written it, but it was a better presentation because of my efforts. In audio post I have not saved a project, but have given a little more focus and clarity. Once a short project was completely re-edited because of my suggestions. (If you want to know what I did, I used DX from an extended scene that had been shortened [protagonist talking with his psychiatrist] as a sort of voice-over to connect other scenes as the overall flow of the project felt a bit disjointed to me. They re-edited to take advantage of the idea; the therapy session became the reason for the flashbacks.) The feature I worked on a few years later for the same director/producer team took much more advantage of sound-for-picture, and I was even sent a script and consulted a number of times during preproduction. The result was really fun to work on.

Well, the lock-down has got me rambling again, so I'll stop here.

Peace, and good luck!
 
As @Sweetie mentioned, there are many people more than willing to take advantage of your inexperience. Only by expanding your knowledge and experience base will you learn to avoid these types of people.
Thanks so much, I appreciate your rambling :wait: due to the lockdown. This part here will really be taken seriously, because a friend of mine who is into filmmaking as a cinematographer said the same. He said something about actors taking advantage of me and might make a fool of me on set when they spot a weak link cos I am most likely going to display some level of mediocrity.

So I need to really work on people's project before taking a single step to make a feature.

Truth is I shoot, I edit and I have a good eye for shitty work in film...which made my wife urge me to start a movie review Youtuube channel. LOL. I have shot a couple of skits for the media firm I work for where I was responsible for the lighting, shooting, audio alone but honestly never done anything on a complete film set.
 
As a producer I understand what your production manager is saying. Its the same work for me short or feature just a different number of shoot days. I dont think that is true for you if you have not been on working sets. If you want the crew to respect you, you need to understand their jobs so you can respect how much work they are putting into your project. It is one thing to ask for favors but as producers and filmmakers we need to respect what everyone brings to the table and how much it helps make the magic work. You also need to know what you can cut. Without understanding why different people are assigned different jobs do you know what is most important on your project and what you can skimp on. Frankly I would not attempt to be the head honcho until I had been on real sets start to finish. Pay attention to pre production and wrap and the forms interactions with the unions - if not technically- for what you are promising to them and for how long. Your freedom can taken away if you are non compliant or negligent. I hope you make your film not because you want to make a film but because you have a story you need to tell. And if you can’t wait, coproduce with a more experienced producer by executive producing your project as you learn more.

I hope this is food for thought. Best wishes
 
So my goal for the year 2021 is to make a feature film. I have never done one before but I have a couple of ideas on how film works with the little experience I have in a media firm where I work full-time.

So with my goal in mind, I asked a production manager on how best to go about making my film and if I need to make a short first and he said NO.

He pointed out that I will be burning just as much energy and time making a short as I would making a feature film. So why not simply go ahead with the feature.

So I just want to know if he is right by this because I have heard severally shorts are the rites of passage to being a filmmaker.
This may be an unpopular comment, especially here, but I think the days where short films were genuinely useful to anyone, are mostly over. It's supply and demand, and while an Excellent short can open some doors, an average one has a lot of disadvantages. The one situation where I feel like a short has real value, is when it introduces you to the breakout brand of creativity that makes a director unique. If you can do that, then I'd say it's really worth your while. If you don't care much about the result this time and just want some experience, a short can really help build your chops. Advice I often give is not to make a short film, but a 30 second commercial. If you can't kill it for 30 seconds, you probably don't have the chops for a feature yet. And people will buy commercials, which can help with that eventual feature.

Remember also that a cinematic short is not the only type of cinematic short. In fact, it's probably the least useful version. A great music video is a short film. Except people watch it. Have you seen the fim "Baby Driver"? 10 years ago the director made a music video, under 3 minutes. It was good, and showed his sense of humor. Later in life he's doing studio films.


and here is that video side by side with the studio film

 
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