series How much to do a martial arts web series?

I don't know how many support staff would be required, but I would have four actors and, depending on the episode, a handful of extras - say another four.

I understand a green screen can be used to provide the background for a spaceship, and it can be rented for a few hundred dollars a day.

If we can do $1=2K per episode, I will definitely try it. :)
 
Time for the aspiring mogul to do a little research on greenscreen.
You can't just hire a greenscreen stage, have actors walk around
and that's it. Using 100% greenscreen for all sets and locations is
very complicated and in most cases will cost more than building a
set. Those backgrounds do not generate themselves.

If we can do $1=2K per episode, I will definitely try it
But now you're thinking like a mogul – set your price and then make
it happen. You can't do an episode for a grand (four cast, four crew is
$940, a “handful” of non-paid extras will add $60/75 in food) but you
could put together a general crew, locations, sets, costumes, props,
equipment list to see if you can do it for 2k per episode.
 
Time for the aspiring mogul to do a little research on greenscreen.
You can't just hire a greenscreen stage, have actors walk around
and that's it. Using 100% greenscreen for all sets and locations is
very complicated and in most cases will cost more than building a
set. Those backgrounds do not generate themselves.

Good idea about doing research. But I'm not sure where to start. Perhaps I should speak to a local company that has a green screen.



You can't do an episode for a grand (four cast, four crew is
$940, a “handful” of non-paid extras will add $60/75 in food) but you
could put together a general crew, locations, sets, costumes, props,
equipment list to see if you can do it for 2k per episode.

So, for a few thousand - let's say $3K, then, it would be very feasible? :)



It doesn't look like it's been mentioned yet, so I'll just throw it out there. There's already a pretty entertaining, successful martial arts web series - though it's a comedy. I'll link below:

https://www.youtube.com/user/EnterTheDojoShow

Yes, I know of this one. :)
 
I don't know how many support staff would be required, but I would have four actors and, depending on the episode, a handful of extras - say another four.

Dude, you've been here longer than me. Either you're expecting someone to spoon feed you, or you just don't pay attention to threads you've been involved with. I really don't know which is worse in this industry. You have a decent idea of who/what is needed. You may miss one or two, but you have a general idea.

For your shoot, who's running the camera and sound equipment? Who's running the set? I assume you're directing? For the martial arts, who's doing the fight choreography? Who's doing the lighting? What about the editing most importantly in this genre, post sound.

While it's fine to do it (almost) all yourself, A). It'll take 5 times longer to shoot anything (and you'll be paying people to sit and watch you do that work), if you're the director, you're taking away from what you're supposed to be focusing on.

I know it's easy to focus on who's in front of the camera. If you don't also focus on what crew you'll need for your shoot, your end result is likely to be sub-par.

If we can do $1=2K per episode, I will definitely try it.

You can do it, though, the way you're planning on doing it, you cannot accomplish any quality film with that budget.

What Directorik said is true. Work out the budget and then go from there. It's fine to work that way, but I sense you're stuck in your ways insisting on paying minimum wages to everyone. You cannot be stuck in your ways when you're working with so low a budget.
 
So, for a few thousand - let's say $3K, then, it would be very feasible?

Define "feasible"! Who is your target audience and what are their production value/quality expectations?

It's possible to make almost any film/series/content for almost any budget, that's NOT the issue! The difficulty is in meeting or exceeding your target audience's expectations within a "feasible" budget, and my definition of "feasible" in this respect is: 1. A budget which you can realistically raise AND 2. A budget which will realistically allow for a profit.

G
 
Define "feasible"! Who is your target audience and what are their production value/quality expectations?

It's possible to make almost any film/series/content for almost any budget, that's NOT the issue! The difficulty is in meeting or exceeding your target audience's expectations within a "feasible" budget, and my definition of "feasible" in this respect is: 1. A budget which you can realistically raise AND 2. A budget which will realistically allow for a profit.

G

Thanks for your help, APE.

The second issue I will answer immediately - I don't expect to make any money, but, if I can just make my cost back from Youtube ads, I'll be happy.

As for the first issue, my target audience would be science-fiction fans who love ST and SW, and who are relatively well-read. IOW, the geeks at typical sci-fi conventions. With that in mind, I would also target the casual fan who watches the occasional episode of ST.
 
Here's a web series to check out to see the production quality for research purposes. It's based on the Street Fighter games. It's independently produced, and endorsed and approved by Capcom, the owner of the Street Fighter IP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyVO0NLoLWE

Machinima has a window of exclusivity for this to be on their channel. A mini series edit will be released on television networks. A dvd/blu ray feature edit is being produced to be sold as well.

This is the best live-action adaptation of a video game ever made in my opinion as it remains true to the characters not only in terms of their likenesses but attention to details such as their fighting styles, and their special moves from the games have been choreographed and integrated into the fight scenes in a believable way. Also, the stories of the characters and their histories have been adapted faithfully as well. It wisely focuses on a core set of characters so as to remain focused on them and their stories and not to overload it with trying to fit in every character from the video game into the one project.

I think this is a move in the right direction for video game adaptations in general and proves that they can be adapted faithfully and work in a different medium.

Here's their fan film which started it all and caught the attention of Capcom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ZXSzaUIBQ
 
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I don't expect to make any money, but, if I can just make my cost back from Youtube ads, I'll be happy.

Technically, the difference between making your money back and making a profit is 1c! In other words, to make your money back you effectively need to be aiming to make a profit, albeit a modest one.

As for the first issue, my target audience would be science-fiction fans who love ST and SW, and who are relatively well-read.

That target audience has exceptionally high quality expectations, much higher than is "feasible" according to either of the two points of definition I gave earlier, let alone both! So instantly you've got to count on loosing the overwhelming majority of your target audience. On the plus side, it is a very large target audience to start with and some will accept certain amount of lower quality because it is YouTube rather than the cinema. A large part of being a "Mogul" is having a very good understanding of your realistic target audience, of how to create a good enough product to satisfy enough of that audience and how to achieve all that within a "feasible" budget.

G
 
Here's a web series to check out to see the production quality for research purposes. It's based on the Street Fighter games. It's independently produced, and endorsed and approved by Capcom, the owner of the Street Fighter IP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyVO0NLoLWE

Machinima has a window of exclusivity for this to be on their channel. A mini series edit will be released on television networks. A dvd/blu ray feature edit is being produced to be sold as well.

This is the best live-action adaptation of a video game ever made in my opinion as it remains true to the characters not only in terms of their likenesses but attention to details such as their fighting styles, and their special moves from the games have been choreographed and integrated into the fight scenes in a believable way. Also, the stories of the characters and their histories have been adapted faithfully as well. It wisely focuses on a core set of characters so as to remain focused on them and their stories and not to overload it with trying to fit in every character from the video game into the one project.

I think this is a move in the right direction for video game adaptations in general and proves that they can be adapted faithfully and work in a different medium.

Here's their fan film which started it all and caught the attention of Capcom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ZXSzaUIBQ

Interesting, PhantomScreenwriter, especially with the fact that, from this has sprung a TV series. So how much would these videos have cost? I'd like a rough idea.
 
Not sure to be honest unfortunately. All I know is they began a Kickstarter to raise funds but they cancelled very early in the campaign as they were able to finance the series with private investors. However I see that their funding goal for their Kickstarter page (which you can still view even though it was cancelled) was 625, 000 pounds. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1689785997/street-fighter-assassins-fist-kickstarter-campaign

I missed a bit of information in the post I made too:

After the mini series version is released there will be a 105 minute tv movie for syndicated television. The feature version will be over 2 hours and uncut when released on dvd and blu-ray.
 
Not sure to be honest unfortunately. All I know is they began a Kickstarter to raise funds but they cancelled very early in the campaign as they were able to finance the series with private investors. However I see that their funding goal for their Kickstarter page (which you can still view even though it was cancelled) was 625, 000 pounds. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1689785997/street-fighter-assassins-fist-kickstarter-campaign

I missed a bit of information in the post I made too:

After the mini series version is released there will be a 105 minute tv movie for syndicated television. The feature version will be over 2 hours and uncut when released on dvd and blu-ray.

Thanks, PSW. :)

Looking at the two Youtube shorts, I would say they would cost less than $1,000, because it's just 2 actors plus some minor special effects. I'm asking because I'm trying to get a sense of the costs.
 
My problem is that sci-fi can be very expensive ... but, if an MA short is cheap and doesn't cost anything, hey, why not?

Sci-fi can be expensive or cheap - look at something like Primer for an example of sci-fi done in the kind of budget range you're looking for. It's just going to have to be something more cerebral and less spacey at the low end of the budget range.

Compared to something like that I would expect a martial-arts short to have similar expenses, but I expect it would take a lot more time due to the need for choreography & rehearsal.

And, yes, you're all right about a piece of string being any length. That said, I used to practice martial arts, and I do so on and off again.

You need to keep your audience in mind - the kind of people who like MA films are interested in the fighting above all else. You may have a little martial arts experience - or even a lot - but that's far different than being good at doing on-screen fights. If you don't have people who can pull it off at better-than-hollywood levels I doubt you're likely to come even close to breaking even on youtube revenues. You have to look at the competition - can you do better than these guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5xAbp1SW5c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVVibnxvru0

They've spent the last decade working on making low-budget MA films - dozens of shorts and a couple features. They have a lot of fans and subscribers but I'm pretty sure they're not making enough money on youtube to offset their production costs on the shorts. Their last feature had a budget in the $100k range, which they've probably made back at this point through foreign sales, but it's taken them years of dedication to their genre to get to that point. Do you really think you'll be able to compete with someone like that if your primary motivation for doing a MA film is that it's a cheap option?
 
Thanks for your input, IDOM. How much would those Youtube videos cost, do you know? I'm trying to get a sense of the costs.

You also said their last feature cost $100K, and they may have made it back through foreign sales. Can you tell me more? :)
 
Out of pocket costs? I don't really know - I'd guess less than $1000, probably mostly food, props, costumes, etc. The second one probably cost more than the first just due to the amount of destruction, makeup/blood fx, etc.

And of course probably 5-10,000 hours of practice at martial arts, stunts, filmmaking, etc... multiplied by all the key people involved.

That's what I'm getting at - the out of pocket costs aren't what's important with these, and if you focus on those you won't be able to compete. The important part is the time they've put in that enables them to do what they do. If you don't have that, then you'll end up spending a lot more because you'll have to hire people that do - or else you're going to end up with a significantly inferior production.

So the question isn't really "what did those shorts cost?", it's "what would it cost you to do the same thing?". So figure a stunt coordinator/choreographer at probably $1000/day or more, plus 3-4 stunt people/actors at say $750/day (I'm just making these numbers up - but if anything I'm probably on the low side). You'll also need a camera and sound person at minimum, plus someone for grip/lighting and a PA/general assistant. Probably going to end up between $5-8k/day total. You'll probably need a day or two of choreography and rehearsal, plus 3-4 shooting days... so you're looking at a $25-30k range.

Now maybe if you've got an amazing, mind-blowing script and some realistic prospects for huge exposure you could convince everyone to work for less and get the budget down to the $10k range, but probably not much less. These people are all actively working on their own projects, any time they spend on yours is taking time away from those - so you'll need some incentive to convince them to work on yours instead, and part of that incentive is probably going to have to be money.

So clearly it's not going to be cost effective to do something like that, unless you've got significant sales/revenue lined up for the project ahead of time. It's certainly not going to work with youtube ad revenues alone.

That's going to be the challenge with projects like this - you're competing with people who can do it far far cheaper than you can because they've been dedicating their life to it for years. If you haven't done that, the options are to hire people who have, or get started on a 10-year plan to get there yourself.

You also said their last feature cost $100K, and they may have made it back through foreign sales. Can you tell me more?

I don't know a lot of the details. I know they spent about $50-60k on the production, which was primarily money they'd earned/saved over about 6 years. For post they raised about $10k via crowdfunding (which I contributed to), I think they might have picked up some small private investments as well. At the premier they said their total budget was close to $100k - I'm not sure if that was all out of pocket or included some deferments as well.

Once the film was done they got a sales agent who sold distribution rights to a variety of international territories. I don't know what kind of deals they're getting on those, but based on what I've heard from other people selling internationally it's probably $5-10k per territory. They have a small US distributor, they sell on their own site, and they have a booth at comic-con each year where they sell their DVDs and t-shirts, posters, etc. I don't think they've made a lot of money with it, but after a couple of years I'd guess they've at least roughly broken even between direct sales and foreign rights.

It's certainly not a way to get rich, but it enables them to keep doing what they want to be doing - and it's clearly part of a long term plan. They're not just looking to make a big breakout hit that launches them into hollywood - they're building a brand, an audience, a catalog of projects, etc - all in pursuit of making the best action/martial arts films possible, the kind they aren't seeing being made in hollywood. And that's the key - they're willing to put in the time and effort because it's their passion, and if you're approaching it from a purely business standpoint the approach they're taking probably won't make much sense, or be particularly relevant.
 
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Very true words by itdonnedonme

I am going to do a superhero action comedy, and I stretch every single day. I am not going to be able to do some of these scenes for at least a year
 
Thanks again, IDOM.

When I mentioned a no-brainer martial arts series, I was thinking of doing something just for the fun of it, with no costs whatsoever. Perhaps a comedy would be better.

In any case, my serious effort would be my emerging SF series - for that, I've invested quite a bit of time and effort, and, perhaps, I'll soon begin investing money.

Of course, once I begin filming my SF, I should be able to convince everyone to do some extra scenes, again, just for the fun of it. :)

I've been asking questions for about half a decade, and I'm getting the urge to get my feet wet. :)
 
It really depends on your goals - I was under the impression you were hoping to make enough money on youtube to cover your costs, which I think will be very difficult. I've currently made about $65 on youtube with almost 100k views, so even with a budget of $1000/episode you're probably looking at needing a couple million views to break even, maybe less if you've got something people will sit through a pre-roll ad for.

The Stunt People actually had a sci-fi video go viral and get a ton of coverage on sites across the web last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvOBmi0Lg2s

Even with all the coverage they only picked up 700k views. Their follow-up only hit 80k, and a kickstarter they attempted to fund it as an ongoing web-series only reached half of it's $10k goal. So even with all the time and experience they've put into it it's difficult to turn it into a sustainable project.

If you're just trying to do it to learn, and not hoping to make money directly from it, then it's likely you could do it on the cheap regardless of the genre. You just have to know from the start that whatever you spend is probably just a loss, other than the experience and skills you gain in the process.

I've been asking questions for about half a decade, and I'm getting the urge to get my feet wet. :)

Do it! Think where you might be if you'd waded in half a decade ago...
 
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