Now there's a guy we need around these parts again.
Hostility
- Thread starter NickClapper
- Start date
Now there's a guy we need around these parts again.
I guess it is just the old vs new mentality difference,which as far as I noticed was quite balanced. Having an honest opinion is a valuable tool in an educational process,probably the harsh criticism was taken a tad bit too far. But I haven't noticed a thread which didn't get an answer or advice or opinion. H44 threads are a troll fest,but I don't think it is the trolls to blame
Nick,
As a new poster myself, I would say I agree with you.
I've followed these boards for a few years as a "stalker" if you will, and then decided to post a few times. The responses I have gotten, while perhaps true at their core, have lead me to this self reflection every time I try to post. To check my words to see if I might offend the professionals here with my unprofessional ways of accomplishing tasks. I have typed out many posts, only to delete them because I know I am not a professional in this field, and that it will just be picked a part by those who are.
However on the flip side, just reading the knowledge that is here has helped our very small group accomplish things we didn't think we could before we started. I have learned a lot, but as a noob I feel "safer", if you will, waiting for someone else to ask the "stupid" questions then to ask them myself.
I don't expect rara go team!!! You can do iiitttttt!!!!! But there's gotta be a different tone that can be taken. I don't know.
I'll just keep on reading
As a new poster myself, I would say I agree with you.
I've followed these boards for a few years as a "stalker" if you will, and then decided to post a few times. The responses I have gotten, while perhaps true at their core, have lead me to this self reflection every time I try to post. To check my words to see if I might offend the professionals here with my unprofessional ways of accomplishing tasks. I have typed out many posts, only to delete them because I know I am not a professional in this field, and that it will just be picked a part by those who are.
However on the flip side, just reading the knowledge that is here has helped our very small group accomplish things we didn't think we could before we started. I have learned a lot, but as a noob I feel "safer", if you will, waiting for someone else to ask the "stupid" questions then to ask them myself.
I don't expect rara go team!!! You can do iiitttttt!!!!! But there's gotta be a different tone that can be taken. I don't know.
I'll just keep on reading
Actually I completely disagree with that. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, including internet posts.
People who can't read an H44 thread without trolling him shouldn't open it in the first place. I stopped reading most of those because it's too difficult for me to keep my mouth shut about the abhorrent posts in some of those threads.
If one is tired of someone's posts, don't open their threads or put them on ignore.
And don't give me lame excuses about how he keeps asking the same questions. So what? If it bothers you, don't post. Trolling him just makes this board into the kind of place where that behaviour is common and acceptable.
If it weren't for this forum, I know that I wouldn't have (at least) five of the shorts I put together over the years, so I do owe a debt of gratitude and thanks to IndieTalk and many of its good members who also became great filmmaking collaborators along the way. IndieTalk has definitely provided an impetus to get out there and shoot something, if only for the fun of it all. And, lo, I am still having fun. Fancy that! 
It's too bad you feel you have to do that. That the professionals will
be offended with the ways you want to accomplish anything. But I
understand because I see it in some people here. I hope I never
express offense in that way. Only one person here makes me angry
so I never even read his questions.
What Directorik said, jj4vr. I'm sad that you feel that way. I hope you reconsider. If someone should pounce on one of your posts, at least remember that they do not represent all members or visitors here. Nor do we all approve of such behavior. Also, heh-heh, there are nonprofessional (not to mention inexperienced, as well) members who post all the time. (Guilty!) (And I'm ashamed of it, too.) (And, ...I'm one who should abstain from posting, not you.)
Ah, so a lot of the trolling is taking place in H44's threads? I totally agree with you on that, David.
Another reason that should not be happening is something Knightly posted a while back that should have put that to bed, if anyone was "listening." Forgive me for not doing you the courtesy of finding it and getting the exact quote, Knightly. But anyway, Knightly said something to the effect that H44 drives a lot of traffic to I.T., and they really appreciate him.
H44 = good for I.T.
Maybe we can say he's a good earner, so to speak, to put in Sopranos terms.
So maybe a little more appreciation for him is in order, not trolling.
Ah, so a lot of the trolling is taking place in H44's threads? I totally agree with you on that, David.
Another reason that should not be happening is something Knightly posted a while back that should have put that to bed, if anyone was "listening." Forgive me for not doing you the courtesy of finding it and getting the exact quote, Knightly. But anyway, Knightly said something to the effect that H44 drives a lot of traffic to I.T., and they really appreciate him.
H44 = good for I.T.
Maybe we can say he's a good earner, so to speak, to put in Sopranos terms.
So maybe a little more appreciation for him is in order, not trolling.
I like making jokes in H44 threads. I wouldn't say there is any hostility toward him in my posts.
Actually I appreciate him too, his threads are one of my greatest source of laughs here on the forum
Also, I do post good stuff in there. Somehow in his latest thread I was the only one with enough common sense to assert that he didn't have a virus specifically designed to corrupt his premiere project files
Actually I appreciate him too, his threads are one of my greatest source of laughs here on the forum
Also, I do post good stuff in there. Somehow in his latest thread I was the only one with enough common sense to assert that he didn't have a virus specifically designed to corrupt his premiere project files
I've often wondered if H44 is the creation of one of the forum owners. If he is, it's one hell of a successful marketing ploy.
Then be the bigger man and ignore him. 
I've talked to knightly a few times (in real life) on occasion about this. Basically it comes down to this; h44 asks a lot of really beginner type questions on a wide array of topics. Those then get picked up by the google spiders, and saturate google (and other search engines) with organic results.
In short, h44 is an SEO (Search Engine Optimization) goldmine. Not necessarily from a ca$h profit standpoint, but from a community building standpoint.
I don't know if there are any actual metrics or analytics (though it would be really interesting to see), but in the few years that h44 has been posting, there's been a massive upsurge in new forum members. 99% of the time "I found this place from a google search" ding. h44.
So, with that in mind, there's another GREAT reason not to troll those threads. They're often the first view into our community that a lot of potential new members have. It would be a shame to scare off the next Truffaut, or Kurosawa because someone decided they were tired of seeing the same old 'stupid' question from h44 again, and just had to be a dick in that thread.
Truth be told. I'd love to see h44 turn out to be a troll, and for him to release a friggin amazing feature later this year. But I'm not holding my breath for it.
I'll admit guilt of my fair share of snark and rare outright ugly amid an abundance of questionable to offensive posts NSFW or minors or conservatives.
However, A) I'm fairly thick skinned + open minded and kinda expect a creative community to be populated with like kind, and B) try to buy my way to heaven with an over abundance of valid, useful, actionable replies to queries of varying merit + post some actual video&audio content on occasion to this filmmaking site, even if often just for proof of concept.
"Ten attaboys = one aw, shucks" is good math for me.
Frankly, I just chuckle and smirk at caustic vitriol thrown at village idiots, both new and entrenched.
I advise people to not be such sensitive breastfed babies.
Furthermore, I've been in the professional workplace and on message board forums for quite a while and have experienced multiple micro-culture changes in both arenas.
Takeaway: The "golden era" of when you joined will ALWAYS disappear, only to be replaced with all of these new people that think this is now THEIR "golden era" of the workplace or message board.
That's life.
Deal.
However, A) I'm fairly thick skinned + open minded and kinda expect a creative community to be populated with like kind, and B) try to buy my way to heaven with an over abundance of valid, useful, actionable replies to queries of varying merit + post some actual video&audio content on occasion to this filmmaking site, even if often just for proof of concept.
"Ten attaboys = one aw, shucks" is good math for me.
Frankly, I just chuckle and smirk at caustic vitriol thrown at village idiots, both new and entrenched.
I advise people to not be such sensitive breastfed babies.
Furthermore, I've been in the professional workplace and on message board forums for quite a while and have experienced multiple micro-culture changes in both arenas.
Takeaway: The "golden era" of when you joined will ALWAYS disappear, only to be replaced with all of these new people that think this is now THEIR "golden era" of the workplace or message board.
That's life.
Deal.
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From 8S9's perspective, he couldn't figure what the fuss was about because he criticises himself even more harshly. He didn't say anything on here that he wouldn't say about his own stuff and in fact, he's so much harsher about his own stuff.
The difficulty arises when shooters who don't realise what he is doing get offended. From his perspective, he is just telling them what he sees.
Which is why he and I make a good combo. He races ahead into the stratosphere but needs a little reigning in and structure which I can deliver. We are also both happy to take criticism of each others' stuff and then suddenly, everyone on IT says our stuff looks good.
He's also a talent with serious vision. His vision is magical, a different level. So we have H44 but banned 8S9. Great.
Not everything he contributed with helpful. There were several posts from him that were just plain mean spirited attacks, clearly not even intended to be helpful, no matter how you look at them.
Not all.. no no. but several.
Not all.. no no. but several.
Without exception everyone here was a noob at some point, had to ask stupid questions and more than once (and probably a lot of times) felt foolish from learning the answer. Also, people have ways of writing which can often come across as belittling when that's not their intention. I have a quite officious way of writing which can sometimes alienate others but I'm not nearly so officious in person. Emails and forum posts do not contain tone of voice, facial expression or body language which are essential parts of communication, so it's not surprising there are mis-understandings and sometimes they escalate.
If you're a "noob" then don't be afraid to say so, us professionals will try to take that into account when we respond and will only respond forcefully if you're planning to do something which we consider dangerous or illegal. Of course, there are some people here who occasionally post BS just to make themselves look "big" and then post insulting replies when they are called out over it, but you find those kinds of people in all walks of life.
One of the other difficulties here is that many are self-taught filmmakers. They often develop their own ethos and/or way of doing things which suits them at their stage of filmmaking but which would be inefficient or not work at all at other levels of filmmaking. This leads to a number of heated discussions, as advice sincerely given is questioned/contradicted by others who have a different way of doing things or who have professional experience of how the commercial filmmaking world does things. This is a good thing!! As an aspiring filmmaker it's important to make informed decisions on how you are going to do things and informed decisions by definition requires information.
G
Are you referring to the time I rage quit this forum over that picture? And are you calling me a village idiot?Frankly, I just chuckle and smirk at caustic vitriol thrown at village idiots, both new and entrenched.
I advise people to not be such sensitive breastfed babies.
Photon, with absolute honesty I have no recollection of that event.
So, with that in mind the answer to your question is "No."
It is not a reference to that or to you.
It is a reference to the posters that arrive with notions of "Filmmaking is a low-barrier to entry business, tell me in one thread what I need to buy to make a film festival acceptance quality film!"
Often this POV comes with the assumption that after winning festival selection several major studios will be popping over an email for "further discussions" of their futures.
Such a poster would have similar reception at a RC airplane site, a competition shooting site, a mountaineering site, or even a chef site.
Nothing is simple anymore.
Everything is complicated.
That established (I hope) and moving forward, Photon, I apologize for calling or suggesting that you were the village idiot or a member of the village idiots club.
Sincerely, Ray
So, with that in mind the answer to your question is "No."
It is not a reference to that or to you.
It is a reference to the posters that arrive with notions of "Filmmaking is a low-barrier to entry business, tell me in one thread what I need to buy to make a film festival acceptance quality film!"
Often this POV comes with the assumption that after winning festival selection several major studios will be popping over an email for "further discussions" of their futures.
Such a poster would have similar reception at a RC airplane site, a competition shooting site, a mountaineering site, or even a chef site.
Nothing is simple anymore.
Everything is complicated.
That established (I hope) and moving forward, Photon, I apologize for calling or suggesting that you were the village idiot or a member of the village idiots club.
Sincerely, Ray