Goldman's book is disheartening.

A

Aspiring Mogul

I've finished William Goldman's "Adventures in the Screen Trade", and he really shows the negative side of making films. He even says that screen writers will not satisfy their creative souls, because writing scripts is drudge work, so they have to find some other creative outlet.

If show biz is so depressing, why would anyone get into it? I know the answer, and I think everyone has the same answer, but I'd like to hear others articulate it - because I'm seriously wondering if film is for me.
 
I don't know if we will have the same answer here. For me, it isn't really about satisfying my creative soul. I have all of these ideas bouncing around inside of my head. I take these ideas and use them to craft stories and fill those with characters. I spend a great deal of time reflecting upon the worlds that I create and just want to inflict my vision upon others.
 
After working in the music industry for a couple of years I realised that it wasn't for me, at least, not on that grand scale that involves selling your soul. I realised it's not a creative outlet, the same way I guess you're talking about right there. :)

I don't know about film specifically but I'm guessing it's similar. People always want the same things - the same kind of shows, the same kind of music. If something's different it doesn't get made.
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
I've finished William Goldman's "Adventures in the Screen Trade", and he really shows the negative side of making films.
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He's stating the facts!

Some people around here say I'm full of negativity (you know who you are, doctor!), but the fact of the matter, downplaying the harsh reality of film making does nobody any good. You set people up to be disappointed -- that's a far worse crime than being blunt about this brutal business from the get go when newbies show up on this board.

If they're really into film making, they'll survive knowing the truth -- look at us, we're all still here, aren't we?

I hate being lied to, and a one-sided book or forum hyping up a 'peachy and polite' wonderful world of film is akin to marketing magic elixir.

The film business is brutal and if you've thin skin, we'll see you on the wayside.
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
I've finished William Goldman's "Adventures in the Screen Trade", and he really shows the negative side of making films. He even says that screen writers will not satisfy their creative souls, because writing scripts is drudge work, so they have to find some other creative outlet.

If show biz is so depressing, why would anyone get into it? I know the answer, and I think everyone has the same answer, but I'd like to hear others articulate it - because I'm seriously wondering if film is for me.
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To be fair, we idealize what we don't know. That woman you fantasized about as the perfect girlfriend/spouse? Well, she turns out to be human. But even if she's less-than-perfect, you can still love her even though you don't like some aspects of her.

Same thing with the film industry, sports, or whatever it is we aspire to do. I think the point is that for those who are on the outside looking in, they idealize what it's like.

Sports: the everyday life of a pro athlete is full of practice, insecurity and fear (will I get replaced? what if I get injured?), and pretty boring and regimented schedules (not to mention a highly regimented diet). The game itself is what you work for, but it's actually a very small part of your week (or if you're an Olympic sprinter, you spend 4 years to experience 10 -15seconds across that track).

Music: the mythology behind sex, drugs and rock n' roll is way overblown. Does it happen? Sure. But the reality is much more pedestrian than they'd let on. You think men exaggerating their sexual prowess is limited to musicians?

Same with film. For actors, the reality is waiting forever. You wait to hear from your agent (sometimes months can go by without an audition). You wait to hear from the producers/casting. You are in the waiting room, waiting your turn to audition. And even when you're on set, you spend the overwhelming majority of the 10 hour day waiting in between takes that take a few seconds to a few minutes at the most. Even at the highest levels, the majority of the time is drudgery.

No difference with writers, directors or any other professional artists for hire. The reality is, you're not going to love every single project you get hired to work on. And most of what you work on won't turn out to be that good or well received by audiences, even with your best efforts. You deal with rejection. You deal with everyone giving you feedback, notes, criticism.

It could be depressing depending on how you look at it, but I think he was simply trying to counteract the mythology of the film business that gets trumpeted by the media. Point is, an outsider can love the mythology, but you the professional (or aspiring professional) should be loving the craft enough to put up with the crap - though that's not unique to the film industry.
 
Anytime a creative turns his art into business it solely stops becoming a creative outlet. In business, you pretty much always have to sacrifice some measure of your creative passion to get the product made and pay the bills. That's why you always make time for the personal projects or find another outlet for creativity that stays yours otherwise depression is an eventuality for the business creative.
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
I've finished William Goldman's "Adventures in the Screen Trade", and he really shows the negative side of making films.
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I think a more accurate and positive way to view this is, he shows the negative side to making STUDIO films...

His 2nd book, WHICH LIE DID I TELL is also very good. Especially the chapter on working with Michael Douglas the producer (cool) and then Michael Douglas the actor (not-cool).

Hollywood films are a major business with a lot of money on the line. They are treated like a factory the same as any other multi-billion dollar corporation. Even Harvey Weinstein tampers heavily with indie films (see the filmmakers point of view on FANBOYS).
 
sonnyboo said:
Everything about how perfect everything wen on BUTCH CASSIDY & THE SUNDANCE KID...
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Right - and also how All the President's Men became an unexpected hit.

I did say I know what the answer would be, but others may have different answer. My point is that show biz is supposed to be fun, but I see all these toxic elements. Of course, I'm trained to be conservative and see the potential dangers, so that's why I'm so disheartened.
 
Hmmm ...

I read Goldman's book again, and it doesn't seem so negative, but I now have a better idea of what I want to do in film - a much better idea, actually. Funny how the learning process works.
 
Try sitting behind a spreadsheet all day. Or working with B2B tech tools used by the army or homeland security or the government.

Everything else and I mean everything is more creative.
 
You guys realize it's a job right? A job with risks, hard work, and many unpaid hours.

You don't write a script for the joy of it, you do it to see the end product and appreciate what you accomplished.
 
Aspiring Mogul said:
why would anyone get into it?
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Aspiring Mogul said:
My point is that show biz is supposed to be fun, but I see all these toxic elements.
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I haven't read the book but this comment alone is worth comment.

Show business by definition is business (big business) which is a different thing entirely from fun. Looking in from the outside at; the big money, the parties and awards, the public recognition, the few selected out-takes, the gossip, etc., it may appear to be fun, it may be sold to the public as fun and there are some fun aspects to the biz but show business is NOT "supposed to be fun" it's damn hard, high pressure, high stress work!

I take pride in what I do and how well I do it but the simple fact is that the vast majority of my time is taken up with general business issues and specific project issues such as; trying to sort out file management issues, dealing with contradictory requirements due to internal politics between the filmmakers themselves and/or between the filmmakers and ancillary personnel (distributors/PR/etc.), ridiculous deadlines and a range of other issues which are about as far from fun as it's possible to get! Of the time that's left, most of it is spent trying to make the un-presentable presentable, from which I do get some pleasure, and the tiny bit of time I get to be truly creative, which can never be fully enjoyed because really there is no time. I couldn't even begin to count the 16+ hour days I've done, must be getting on for 1,000, and my record is a 57 hour "day".

It sounds terrible, so why do I do it? ... I'm not sure exactly (!), a combination of; I don't want to do anything else, the challenge, obsession, I'm good at it and, for those rare times when I'm really, really having fun... which somehow makes even the dull, monotonous or soul destroying tasks seem not so bad, tasks which normal (non-obsessed) people would find intolerable.

Years ago, I was married to a top international classical music soloist. She tours the world, earns very good money, gets all the accolades and lives the life. I remember during an interview the journalist asking: "For many people you live the dream. What's it like achieving this dream and being a full-time classical music soloist?" Her answer was: "I wouldn't know because I'm not a full-time classical music soloist, I'm a full-time business woman whose product is classical music performance!". As a member of the public you don't get to see the reality of being a soloist because representing the true drudgery doesn't make for an interesting documentary or magazine article, you just get to see/read the edited highlights, without ever being told you're only being given the rare highlights. The reality for virtually all the members of this tiny exclusive club is that only a small percentage of the working day is available for practising, performing or in some way actually making music!

G
 
Very good point, APE, and I'm also a businessman. But the point remains that, while there's drudge work in any business, the selling point of ANY industry are the fun parts - in film, it's the joy of expressing yourself creatively; in the restaurant business, it's the joy of giving people a good dining experience or at least a full stomach.

When I first read Goldman's book, he didn't seem to have that. In fact, he even said that, if you're a script writer, you have to find other ways for your creative outlet, and that's the opposite of what I expected.
 
The work that goes into filmmaking and other creative pursuits isn't seen by the general audience and so some people may view these professions as being for lazy people who don't want to go and do hard labor or physically demanding jobs, and that there's no hard work involved in sitting down for how ever many hours a day to stare at a computer screen trying to come up with a story.

What is seen is the end product and while there are many people who know about all the hard work that goes into these types of professions, there's a large portion who don't think about the time and effort something takes.

They take it all for granted.
 
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