DSLR vs. Camcorder

[mrscrouge]

Hello Indietalk, i'll start off by saying I am a total noob at anything equipment related. As of late I've read a couple of books on script writting, and I've decided to slowly start constructing a beginners set up to bring my own scripts to life (short films). I've done some research around the forum and seen that the Canon T2i, as well as the Canon Vixia HF-S20 seem to have good feedback from the members. I noticed however that the T2i is oriented for stills, even though it may have great video functions.
So if you could catch me up on that. I'm basically looking for a sub 1000$ Cam to work with.
I also have an additional 600$ (for now), that I will be setting aside for a tripod, first microphone, and basic lighting; when I decide on the camera. I will be making a different thread for that.

Thanks in advance

 

[M1chae1]

I'm sorry but what was said above? That if you put your camera on a tripod, it's going to look like a painting and people will fall asleep?

lol.

Oh man. This is just so wrong. So wrong. And the bane of most indie media.

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm sorry but what was said above? That if you put your camera on a tripod, it's going to look like a painting and people will fall asleep?

lol.

Oh man. This is just so wrong. So wrong. And the bane of most indie media.

Freeholding can make anything look sub-par if you don't take the time to make yourself good at it. It's a practice thing. I can't believe how many people cannot hold a camera without a fancy rig that does all the work. The pros don't wear the rig to do the job they are wearing the rig because it allows them to do it consistently over several hours. I can free hold a normal camera and compensate for my movement nearly to the point where you could barely tell if I have a steadicam working or not. I use the steadicam because it allows me to do this for hours longer than I could without a device.

Tripods and holding the cam have a place. You should always be doing what magnifies the feel of the scene not what other people tell you. Stop thinking about rules, and what you are supposed to be doing and worry only about the feel. And, yea if you tripod every shot it will suck. Hollywood doesn't do it because they know what I know it sucks the life out of the shots. That's why they have cranes, dolly tracks, steadicams, etc, etc, etc. They will also use nearly every one of them at some point in the flick. A real fun tool I've been thinking to work out with now is a monopod. I think it lets you get some interesting angles while still having most of the tripod-type stability and pretty easy to work some smooth camera motion into a shot.

You have to remember that the camera itself is an actor but it acts as a point of view that doesn't have a voice. You should be trying to visually impart the feel the film with the motion of the camera. If you can't do that then yeah you may be better off on the tripods at all times. People forget that the camera basically plays the part of the audience in a film.

You're free to disagree with me about any of this it's just my take.

 

[Cracker Funk]

Freeholding can make anything look sub-par if you don't take the time to make yourself good at it. It's a practice thing. I can't believe how many people cannot hold a camera without a fancy rig that does all the work. The pros don't wear the rig to do the job they are wearing the rig because it allows them to do it consistently over several hours. I can free hold a normal camera and compensate for my movement nearly to the point where you could barely tell if I have a steadicam working or not. I use the steadicam because it allows me to do this for hours longer than I could without a device.

Tripods and holding the cam have a place. You should always be doing what magnifies the feel of the scene not what other people tell you. Stop thinking about rules, and what you are supposed to be doing and worry only about the feel. And, yea if you tripod every shot it will suck. Hollywood doesn't do it because they know what I know it sucks the life out of the shots. That's why they have cranes, dolly tracks, steadicams, etc, etc, etc. They will also use nearly every one of them at some point in the flick. A real fun tool I've been thinking to work out with now is a monopod. I think it lets you get some interesting angles while still having most of the tripod-type stability and pretty easy to work some smooth camera motion into a shot.

You have to remember that the camera itself is an actor but it acts as a point of view that doesn't have a voice. You should be trying to visually impart the feel the film with the motion of the camera. If you can't do that then yeah you may be better off on the tripods at all times. People forget that the camera basically plays the part of the audience in a film.

You're free to disagree with me about any of this it's just my take.

I feel a great deal of irony coming from you post. On one hand, you tell us not to follow the rules. Yet, on the other hand, it feels like you're trying to make a new rule.

It depends on the movie. And the scene. And each particular shot. Some movies should be paced a little faster than others. But I would think it the rare movie that should just be constantly on the move, never slowing down to take a breath. Have you seen "Crank"? It kinda sucks.

 

[Kenpaffu]

I'm sorry but what was said above? That if you put your camera on a tripod, it's going to look like a painting and people will fall asleep?

lol.

Oh man. This is just so wrong. So wrong. And the bane of most indie media.

M1chae1 and I have had our difference in the past (Avatar Debate Thread)

But I completely agree with him on this topic. Tripods are probably a camera's best friend (excluding lighting and sound).
Some of the best films ever made were mostly on tripods back in the 20's - 50's maybe even later. They didn't have much, but they did indeed have a Tripod, and they didn't need those fancy cranes or anything like that to make their films great. I mean of course there is a time to take it off the tripod, but I don't agree with your argument that "Hollywood doesn't do it because they know what I know it sucks the life out of the shots" because you have to remember hollywood has some movies coming out with their fancy equipment that still for the lack of a better word, suck (twilight, vampires suck, crank etc.).

So I do not agree and I'm with M1chae1 on this one
... That's just my take on it.

 

[M1chae1]

Dude, tripods are used to compose a shot, and steady a camera move. Let's see you pan as smoothly as a fluid head tripod. Let's see you keep a shot as steady as a tripod. You can't, even with the best steady-cam and shoulder rig.

I personally can't stand the new movement of handheld baloney. And if you're going to go handheld in an action sequence, fine, but you better be good at it...and to be honest, most indie DPs aren't good at it.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say that over-using the sticks makes your movie suck. Damn son, haven't you seen any movies pre-1980? The majority of classics stuck to locking down a shot...they COMPOSED a shot. Imagine that.

It's absolutely incredible, and we've come so far in the wrong direction, that we actually have people insisting that composed tripod shots are boring and suck. Incredible.

 

[Ernest Worthing]

Dude, tripods are used to compose a shot, and steady a camera move. Let's see you pan as smoothly as a fluid head tripod. Let's see you keep a shot as steady as a tripod. You can't, even with the best steady-cam and shoulder rig.

I personally can't stand the new movement of handheld baloney. And if you're going to go handheld in an action sequence, fine, but you better be good at it...and to be honest, most indie DPs aren't good at it.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say that over-using the sticks makes your movie suck. Damn son, haven't you seen any movies pre-1980? The majority of classics stuck to locking down a shot...they COMPOSED a shot. Imagine that.

It's absolutely incredible, and we've come so far in the wrong direction, that we actually have people insisting that composed tripod shots are boring and suck. Incredible.

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Movement is good as well but it should be used for a reason and done well, not just to keep the viewers eyeballs moving.

 

[Pedro Monteiro]

Dude, tripods are used to compose a shot, and steady a camera move. Let's see you pan as smoothly as a fluid head tripod. Let's see you keep a shot as steady as a tripod. You can't, even with the best steady-cam and shoulder rig.

I personally can't stand the new movement of handheld baloney. And if you're going to go handheld in an action sequence, fine, but you better be good at it...and to be honest, most indie DPs aren't good at it.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say that over-using the sticks makes your movie suck. Damn son, haven't you seen any movies pre-1980? The majority of classics stuck to locking down a shot...they COMPOSED a shot. Imagine that.

It's absolutely incredible, and we've come so far in the wrong direction, that we actually have people insisting that composed tripod shots are boring and suck. Incredible.

Completely agree. Furthermore, if you can't get a decent still shot how do you suppose your shots will look when you don't have a stable camera support?

 

[mrscrouge]

So if you could catch me up on that. I'm basically looking for a sub 1000$ Cam to work with.

thanks again for all the info here. This community is so helpful that I find myself loggin in almost every day , checking old/new threads to learn new things.

Anyway, I've decided to go the DSLR route, and today I read the announcement of the Canon 60D. Too early to tell if its worth stretching my budget over?

 

[David.rhsc]

It's absolutely incredible, and we've come so far in the wrong direction, that we actually have people insisting that composed tripod shots are boring and suck. Incredible.

Awesome. I'm in total agreement here.

I wonder if anyone bothered to tell Conrad Hall he didn't do enough hand-held work and that when he used sticks his shots were boring. Or Vitorio Storaro, or Vilmos Zsigmond, or John Alton, or ...

Just like color grading (let's go with teal and tan, because all the other big budget action flicks this year did the same thing!) - it seems folks have forgotten to tailor the craft to the story.

 

[wheatgrinder]

I love this topic. . Iv been doing most my stuff handheld because when its just me, its faster and easier to get around.. I would like to marry the concept of rock solid shot, with high mobility. It doesn't have to be MOVING while shooting, just fast.. any one use a mono-pod with video and getting good shots?

In a recent project I helped out on, the DP used a wheelchair.. but not as a dolly. He cradled the camera on his hip\lap and got real solid shots, but had his assistant move him around when needed.. the results were good.

 

[Cracker Funk]

I love this topic. . Iv been doing most my stuff handheld because when its just me, its faster and easier to get around.. I would like to marry the concept of rock solid shot, with high mobility. It doesn't have to be MOVING while shooting, just fast.. any one use a mono-pod with video and getting good shots?

In a recent project I helped out on, the DP used a wheelchair.. but not as a dolly. He cradled the camera on his hip\lap and got real solid shots, but had his assistant move him around when needed.. the results were good.

Wait -- he wasn't using the wheelchair as a dolly, but had his assistant move him around between shots? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong, because I would never put up with that, as an assistant. You need to get somewhere? Walk your lazy-ass over there.

wheat, I've got a pretty steady hand, and there have been occasion when I've gone handheld, even on stationary shots, just because I was in such an extreme time-constraint. But those occasions have been rare, and when I say extreme time-constraint, I mean extreme. Even on a shoot in which we are feeling a bit of a hurry, I still almost always have time to move and set up a tripod. Are you and I working with different kinds of tripods? Cuz I find it pretty quick and easy to move and adjust mine.