BlackMagic announces new camera

MileCreations

MileCreations

I just saw a post on Facebook:

Two new Blackmagic Cinema Cameras at NAB Show

Blackmagic Production Camera 4K - 3.995 $

Super 35 Sensor, Global Shutter, Ultra HD and 4K, Built in SSD, Touch LCD, Metadata Entry, CinemaDNG RAW, ProRes, Thunderbolt, EF Mount, Free DaVinci Resolve & Ultra Scope

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera - 995 $

Super 16 Sensor , 13 Stops of Dynamic Range, Recording on SD Card, High Resolution LCD, ProRes, CinemaDNG RAW, Micro Four Thirds Lens mount, HDMI monitoring.

It doesn't feel like that long ago that they started shipping the old/current one

This post appears to be getting a lot of (assumingly outside) attention. So here are links to the new cameras:

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera:
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/

Blackmagic Production Camera 4K:
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/



.
 
Last edited:
Sort by date Sort by votes
Im waiting to see how the smaller sensor size on the BMPC ENABLES those cheapo supper fast cmount security cam lenses that everyone was raging about on the gh2, except you had to use the EXT TELE mode (in effect using only the center of the sensor)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
There have been plenty of feature films, television shows and TVCs shot on Super 16, and that was with grainier stock than what the BMPC will have.

Sensor-wise, it's perhaps a tad more cropped than a normal m4/3 sensor. It's ~1/2 the size of a S35mm sensor. That said, with the BMPC, they're actually using the same sized sensor as the BMCC, and simply cropping it.

I honestly can't wait to grab a BMPC and throw some old S16 Zeiss Superspeeds or Ultra16s on it. Maybe an old Angie zoom... Oh, the possibilities! Rental houses are going to see a surge in rental of the 16 glass that's been sitting around for the past couple of years, only going out on student films..
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Also - doesn't metabones have a m4/3 speed booster in the works? I know it won't likely bring a full frame lens circle down all the way to the 4/3 image sensor size, but it should certainly reduce the crop factor on this camera to make decent wide angles easier to achieve. i.e. if we can go from a 3x to a 2x multiplier, then something like the rokinon 14mm f/2.8 would make a decent & inexpensive wide angle, or the tokina 11-16mm for a wide zoom. It would also improve the DOF situation a bit if you're trying to keep it shallow.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
jax_rox said:
I honestly can't wait to grab a BMPC and throw some old S16 Zeiss Superspeeds or Ultra16s on it. Maybe an old Angie zoom... Oh, the possibilities! Rental houses are going to see a surge in rental of the 16 glass that's been sitting around for the past couple of years, only going out on student films..
Click to expand...

This. (emphasis mine)

Really hard to turn down that much dynamic range at that price point.

Really, really hard.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
wheatgrinder said:
the digital bolex was more concerned with cool, then function. I said "was" because I predict it is a dead end. It will never take off, a somewhat squishy idea too late to market.. sigh.. too bad.

They got all hung up with the "bolex" branding.. two words "hand crank" need I say more.
Click to expand...

Been following the Bolex and other similarly priced cameras for a while. I have a GH2 and was looking at possible upgrade options in the future. The BMPC is definitely THE bang for your buck if they don't have the same distribution problems as before. However, some distribution is better than no distribution, see: Digital Bolex. However, I think the Bolex will come to the market, just won't compete.

http://www.digitalbolex.com

There is news there, and they've been developing lenses in addition to the camera. Why they would do this instead of focusing full time on the camera is anyone's guess. However, the reaction of the Bolex fanboys over at their forums is very telling. They are scared, as confident and smug as they come across, they are scared. The Dbolex does not offer much more than the BMPC for an additional $2000. The BMPC has removable batteries, SD card storage, etc. I don't see how the Bolex can survive in this emerging market of affordable RAW cameras.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Removable battery! Yay. I want one too. Though I would say this for the Dbolex: a CCD sensor does sound highly desirable to me. Really dislike rolling shutter. Any comparably affordable (to the BMPC) CCD video cameras on the horizon?

If the Bolex people ever do get their camera to market, maybe they should try to really play up the CCDness of it. Not that that would be enough?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The only other digital cine camera I can think of that has a CCD sensor is the Aaton Penelope Delta, which is priced similar to the Aaton Penelope (ie: if you have to ask, you can't afford it).

CCD, and therefore no rolling shutter is a real plus for the digi bolex. How that translates into footage remains to be seen - there's no point having no rolling shutter if the image is crap (though that's not necessarily completely due to the imaging sensor)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Except that the 4K blackmagic camera uses a global shutter, for $700 more than the bolex (at least based on the prices suggested in the kickstarter). So your choice is either a camera that's less than a third of the price, with just a few shortcomings but also a lot of advantages, or a camera that's 20% more expensive but has a few potential advantages over the bolex. If the bolex price dropped to $2k then it would at least split the difference a little, but it's still going to be in a tough space.

At this point I expect they'll ship to their original kickstarter backers, but I don't see enough of a market for them to ramp up production beyond that to build a sustainable business. Part of the problem for them is that they won't be able to come close to the kind of sales volume that the pocket camera is likely to do, so their component costs will always be higher. Compound that with the fact that the bolex is the sole revenue source for their company (unlike blackmagic) and I don't see how they'll be able to survive a slow product launch.

I feel like right now their only hope is that BMD drops the ball on their July release date and ends up unable to ship in volume before the end of the year, cementing their reputation for unreliability. That would not only provide a window for the bolex to ship, but also give them a chance to establish themselves as a more reliable equipment supplier than BMD. In fact, I'd guess Digital Bolex isn't the only company hoping for this to happen, and I hope BMD realizes how important it is that they hit their promised ship dates this time.

Now here's the thing - lets say they do hit their ship dates, and ship with enough volume to meet the market demand. What do they announce next year at NAB - 5K? an even tinier camera? Better lossless RAW compression? For the most part it's incremental improvements from here on out. These are all things their competitors will be shipping too. How could the disrupt the market again?

Open source their camera firmware/OS. Look at how much energy went into magic lantern, and how much of the work was just spent on figuring out how to hack into it. Focus that on actual productive improvements and I think we'd see rapid improvement and innovation with the cameras. Sony, Panasonic, Canon, aren't going to do this. And if Blackmagic doesn't, maybe Digital Bolex will - and maybe that'll be the key to keeping them alive.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
I got some hands on this week at NAB. They're pretty stellar little cameras. The global shutter is a huge deal, and looks great.

The 2.5K cinema camera does have a little more dynamic range than the 4k big brother.

The 1080p pocket camera is a lot of fun too. While a native EF mount would have been great the 4/3 mount does make sense.

The pocket camera uses nikon batteries that you can swap out. The larger versions both still use an internal battery. The design of the camera means you pretty much need a rail mount to use anything, so figure an extra $500 for an Anton or Sony mount battery system and you're still beating the competition by a long shot.

Very cool blackmagic!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
ItDonnedOnMe said:
I feel like right now their only hope is that BMD drops the ball on their July release date and ends up unable to ship in volume before the end of the year, cementing their reputation for unreliability. That would not only provide a window for the bolex to ship, but also give them a chance to establish themselves as a more reliable equipment supplier than BMD. In fact, I'd guess Digital Bolex isn't the only company hoping for this to happen, and I hope BMD realizes how important it is that they hit their promised ship dates this time.
Click to expand...

Shipping in "volume" immediately typically isn't even possible for major manufacturers, for one reason or another. The initial run of cameras that will be very popular are smaller than the customer base. You couldn't get a C300 without a wait, you couldn't get a GH3 without a wait, but each of those cameras landed around the time of their proposed shipping estimate. Not all camera releases are like this, but quite a few and I suspect this one will be no different.

As long as Blackmagic delivers some cameras in July, their reputation is fine. The camera's also priced so low that the expectation of being able to simply order one and get it within a week any time before this Christmas is far-fetched.

There are thousands of people that do not surf forums, what visited NAB or heard about the camera on various websites, surely standing in line waiting for their pocketcam. I suggest, to anyone interested, to find a place to preorder or you'll definitely be waiting around, or buying off of ebay at an elevated price point.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
FernandoAndre said:
There is any kind of test footage from the Digital Bolex?
Click to expand...

Test footage? They're only on v1 of the software!!!!! Jeez, I work for a billion dollar software company and think they're extremely naive.

They could've created or bought in a simple version of the software that works and had a working camera by now. Instead, they're trying to build a complex software app from scratch, are nowhere even near the Beta version and looking at the way they are going about it, it would be a miracle if their software is ready by December.

When I look at the software solution they want to develop, it will have a knock-on effect on price. From experience, I know that it is all well and good developing fancy software but this means upgrading the hardware and from what I have seen, they will struggle with this within the kind of price parameters they are working within.

However, it all comes down to Black Magic. Will they deliver what they promised on time?

Looking at the solutions, I want to save a little extra cash and buy the 4k version. I'm really excited!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
ItDonnedOnMe said:
Open source their camera firmware/OS. Look at how much energy went into magic lantern, and how much of the work was just spent on figuring out how to hack into it. Focus that on actual productive improvements and I think we'd see rapid improvement and innovation with the cameras. Sony, Panasonic, Canon, aren't going to do this. And if Blackmagic doesn't, maybe Digital Bolex will - and maybe that'll be the key to keeping them alive.
Click to expand...

Have you seen this camera:

http://www.apertus.org/axiom

It's designed to be open source from the ground up. They are planning to get a crowdfunding campaign going this year, they were just waiting until everything was in place, probably to not find themselves in the Digital Bolex situation.

Very cool looking camera, can't wait for it. The only price point they've advertised is "well under $10K", and least I hope it's dollars and not Euros.

Wish they were going with an EF mount, not sure why they decided on the F mount, but I'm sure there'll be adapters available; the flange distance doesn't look too big, so the EFs will probably be able to mount up fine.

CraigL
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hey guys, not the right topic but, I need 2 or 3 lenses for Blackmagic Cinema EF. All I know about glass is from m4/3 mount. I'm totally lost. Any recommendations? Short films is the main goal. One wide, one normal, and maybe something with a "special look". Primes only.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Kholi said:
Shipping in "volume" immediately typically isn't even possible for major manufacturers, for one reason or another. The initial run of cameras that will be very popular are smaller than the customer base.
Click to expand...

By 'volume' I don't mean they're sitting on shelves waiting for customers to come in and pick them up, I mean hundreds or thousands of them are out in customer's hands within a month or so from the start of shipping. You're right - at this price point I'm sure they'll be behind the demand all year, but that's a very different thing than the trickle of cameras they were able to manage with the first one.

CraigL said:
Have you seen this camera:

http://www.apertus.org/axiom

It's designed to be open source from the ground up. They are planning to get a crowdfunding campaign going this year, they were just waiting until everything was in place, probably to not find themselves in the Digital Bolex situation.
Click to expand...

I have, and it's a great idea but I think BM or another hardware manufacturer doing it would have significantly more impact. There's a big difference between using hardware that's in widespread use and modifying the software (or installing software someone else has modified), and a system that almost requires you to be a programmer to get started with it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
ItDonnedOnMe said:
By 'volume' I don't mean they're sitting on shelves waiting for customers to come in and pick them up, I mean hundreds or thousands of them are out in customer's hands within a month or so from the start of shipping. You're right - at this price point I'm sure they'll be behind the demand all year, but that's a very different thing than the trickle of cameras they were able to manage with the first one.
Click to expand...

Thousands likely will not happen, and certainly not within a month. Again, even larger manufacturers do not ship that kind of volume initially.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
There hasn't been a killer cinema camera released in the past several years without a waiting list. All the RED cameras, Canon's C300 and 500, even the DSLRs had some wait time (granted usually only a few weeks instead of months). Blackmagic has done better than RED in getting their product out faster.

Of course there have been plenty of cameras you could order and have shipped on release day, but they're generally ones nobody wants haha.

Even in the broadcast world things are changing. Ikegami teamed up with Arri and put a 35mm sensor in a broadcast camera. Their sales rep said they didn't expect anyone to be interested in it but they sold dozens at the show and took orders for more. All at $110k a pop. Sony demoed a f55 Studio back as well with tons of interest.

So, when a camera that good for that little is released you can expect a delay!

Finally, in comparison, look at laptops and especially cellphones. You have to wait weeks for a new iPhone around launch and they're churning them out by the thousands. I imagine they find the right balance in production and release. Gear up on the machinery and personal to build a thousand a day or 10 a day. If you're only going to sell 1000 it costs you a lot less to produce 10 a day for 100 days then 1000 a day for one day.

I lied, now one more thing. Everybody wants something exclusive. It helps the marketing for sure when something is special.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
FernandoAndre said:
Hey guys, not the right topic but, I need 2 or 3 lenses for Blackmagic Cinema EF. All I know about glass is from m4/3 mount. I'm totally lost. Any recommendations? Short films is the main goal. One wide, one normal, and maybe something with a "special look". Primes only.
Click to expand...

When I get my Blackmagic, I plan to stay with micro 4/3, but if I were to switch to EF mount, I would get the declicked Rokinon 8mm, 24mm, 35mm and 85mm Cine primes (skip the 14mm - too much distortion). Great value for the money.

Here are a couple of examples of what the 85 can do on the BMCC:

http://vimeo.com/62348503

http://vimeo.com/61690870

These lenses make it really tempting to switch to EF mount - but MFT is a better match for the sensor sizes of both the BMCC and the BPCC, in my view.

They would be perfect for the Super 35 sensor on the BMPC, though :)

Cheers,

Bill
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top