BlackMagic announces new camera

MileCreations

MileCreations

I just saw a post on Facebook:

Two new Blackmagic Cinema Cameras at NAB Show

Blackmagic Production Camera 4K - 3.995 $

Super 35 Sensor, Global Shutter, Ultra HD and 4K, Built in SSD, Touch LCD, Metadata Entry, CinemaDNG RAW, ProRes, Thunderbolt, EF Mount, Free DaVinci Resolve & Ultra Scope

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera - 995 $

Super 16 Sensor , 13 Stops of Dynamic Range, Recording on SD Card, High Resolution LCD, ProRes, CinemaDNG RAW, Micro Four Thirds Lens mount, HDMI monitoring.

It doesn't feel like that long ago that they started shipping the old/current one

This post appears to be getting a lot of (assumingly outside) attention. So here are links to the new cameras:

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera:
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/

Blackmagic Production Camera 4K:
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k/



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I'm tempted to agree about the Pocket Cam, but I'd still much rather pay the $995 and receive it within a week, than pay $995 and receive within an unknown amount of time. I like certainty with my decisions ;)
 
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Joshua Lloyd said:
I hope it has external battery this time...
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Why? I really prefer the internal battery and an external energy supplier like this ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...bcs_bmepic_bm_li_ion_battery_bm_cgr_auto.html ).
Makes more sense to me than external batteries with less power.

And I do believe that this time the shipping process will be better. But, I'm ready to buy it from ebay even with higher price. :P


edit: jax, I disagree that the Cinema Camera turns 'almost obsolete' with the Production Camera launch. You can easily sell your Cinema Camera on ebay for the same price that you paid. You can't consider something easy to sell as obsolete. The U$1k difference is a huge difference for a lot of indie filmmakers, which are the target audience of this camera. So, the Cinema model is still alive and will continue being a desirable item, in my opinion.
 
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External battery= buy 5 of them and you're fine on location, or if you're filming in the middle of nowhere for a number of days.

I pretty much always shoot on location with no power source so I need spare batteries
 
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MileCreations said:
External battery= buy 5 of them and you're fine on location, or if you're filming in the middle of nowhere for a number of days.

I pretty much always shoot on location with no power source so I need spare batteries
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Yes, but for the price of the item I posted, you can have two of this and get more than 10 hours of camera operation.
 
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gotcha! thank everyone for the help. Really wanted to pre order the camera but too bad they pretty much charge you the whole 1,000 when you preorder but they call it "holding". Wish you could just put down like 100 bucks and then pay the rest when it ships
 
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Yeah, I think I've decided not to pre-order now. I'm still convinced I want the camera, I'm just not confident in their ability to ship it when they say they will. I figure either they've ramped up production and they'll be readily available to order once they ship - or they have production problems again and it'll still take months whether I pre-order or not.
 
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mainstream180 said:
I've read the specs for both the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and the Digital Bolex. But I am not a very technical guy. What is everyones thoughts on which is the better camera? (outside of the potentially large price difference between the two)
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The difference is the Digi Bolex is, AFAIK, still not ready to ship, and was kickstarted even before the flagship Blackmagic camera was announced.
The Digi Bolex is around the same price as what the flagship BMCC cost. It offers the same sized sensor as the pocket cam, and essentially very similar specs, except that the Digi Bolex doesn't record into ProRes. There are three advantages the Digi Bolex has:
1: It has an interchangeable lens mount - you could use a C-mount or a PL or an EF mount, or a B4 mount or whatever. That said, the cost of them would be similar to a m4/3 adapter anyway and you can adapt just about anything to a m4/3 lens mount.
2: XLR audio jacks incl. Phantom Power. This trumps even the BMCC and thte BMPC
3: It has a CCD sensor, so is not prone to rolling shutter.

Before, I thought the Digi Bolex was a real player, but now I fear that there's nowhere for it to sit in the market. It perhaps has a better form factor than the Pocket cam, but is also three times the price for very little gain.
 
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I agree with jax_rox. The Digi Bolex folks had better ship before the $1000 Pocket Cam gets 1080p (1.9K) CinemaDNG RAW. Once that happends, there may not be much of a market left for a $3000 2K RAW camera (unless you really need high frame rates and built-in XLR inputs).

As for all you 8 and 10 bit camera manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Panasonic and Nikon) - I'll probably never buy another video camera without RAW.

As for all you high end RAW camera manufacturers (I'm looking at you, RED, Arri, Sony and Canon) - I would start looking at a new pricing model, if I were you.
 
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brunerww said:
there may not be much of a market left for a $3000 2K RAW camera (unless you really need high frame rates and built-in XLR inputs).
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Even then, 'high frame rates' is really 32fps at 2k..
It's been a whole year since Digi Bolex was Kickstarted and I've not seen or heard anything on shipping details - the original Kickstarter page had est. shipping to pre-order customers as Aug 2012.
Intriguingly, if you look at watchmakers Pebble - their 'donators' were growing restless when they hadn't received their watches one day after exp. delivery. Over at Digi Bolex, the backers seem to be waiting patiently for the unknown arrival date of the camera.
At the same price as the BMCC, I could see Digi Bolex as a real alternative, especially considering it's better form factor, CCD/no rolling shutter, interchangable lens mount etc.

But when a camera 1/3 the price with already a larger backing and customer base despite announcing later than you, is in competition with you - I think it's pretty clear who's going to win that one..

As for all you high end RAW camera manufacturers (I'm looking at you, RED, Arri, Sony and Canon) - I would start looking at a new pricing model, if I were you.
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Hm I agree and disagree. It's not all about resolution, and it's not all about file format. RED have their rusted-on users who will continue to purchase from them as they think that the RED is the best and most revolutionary camera in the world. Sony and Canon both have specific markets that they play into that will continue to use their products - Canon most notably the doco crowd with their C(x)00 series.
It'll be interesting to see how Sony comes out of this with their PMW-F(x) series - the F65 has struggle to gain traction in Hollywood, whilst the F3 simply does not have the name value of RED or even a C(x)00.
I also think Arri is pretty safe - the Alexa is simply the desired digital cinema look, at least for the moment. Arri are smart business people. If there was no market for the camera at that price, they wouldn't be selling it at that price. Look at how many films are now coming out shot on Alexa vs RED, when RED Epic is <1/3 the price of Alexa.

Blackmagic are really going to take over in the DSLR-for-film market. Those with lower budgets will fall over themselves for these cameras.
 
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Thank you jax_rox and brunerww for clarifying the differences!

At this stage I am pretty much sold on buying the BMPC.

Just one other quick question (and I apologise for its stupid simplicity) but is a 16mm sensor (like the one the BMPC or the Digital Bolex) use similiar in terms of demensions and picture output as that of a cropped sensor DSLR (e.g. a Canon 7D)?
 
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The super 16 imager is a good deal smaller than a cropped DSLR sensor, maybe a little more than half the size. That means it's going to be challenging to find good wide angle lenses for it. Actually, there are plenty of good wide angle super-16 lenses, but they tend to cost many, many times the cost of the camera - the challenge is finding good, small, and affordable wide angle lenses.

It also means in general you'll get deeper depth of field than you would with the DSLR. If you really want the razor-thin DOF look you'll just need to use a longer lens and back the camera up from the actors a bit.

The price difference on these cameras is pretty significant. You can get the BPMC, a decent zoom lens like panasonic's 12-35 f/2.8, a few 64GB cards and half a dozen generic nikon batteries and still come in $1000 below the bolex cost for the body alone. Or pick up one of the cheap pancake lenses and you're at $2000 below. Plus I just can't imagine the 320x240 screen on the bolex will be good for much beyond basic framing, so you need to factor in the additional cost of an external monitor with the bolex.

The size and weight differences are pretty significant too. Bolex is 5lbs for the body, BMPC is 3/4lbs. Put the BMPC and a small lens on a $300 crane, stabilizer, or lightweight slider and it's not too hard to get nice results, whereas the larger camera is going to have visible shake and wobble unless you move up to heavier (and more expensive) equipment. So the cost savings potentially extend beyond the camera itself to all the required support equipment.

I just think at this point that whatever slight advantages the bolex might have performance-wise most people would be better off with the pocket camera and spending the difference on glass or other accessories. I also think for most users the direct to ProRes recording is going to be a much better option than RAW and it's associated post requirements. There are specialized situations where RAW will have an advantage, but for most general filmmaking 10-bit log ProRes HQ will be a very good acquisition format - although to really get the most out of either is going to take an investment of time in learning something like Resolve.
 
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the digital bolex was more concerned with cool, then function. I said "was" because I predict it is a dead end. It will never take off, a somewhat squishy idea too late to market.. sigh.. too bad.

They got all hung up with the "bolex" branding.. two words "hand crank" need I say more.
 
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Pretty good timing on BM's part.

Just a year ago, the "small sensor" size of the pocket cinema would have been the ONLY THING you heard about, now that the shallow DOF craze is fading from the indie market, this camera is going to be the one to own this year. Priced below the GH3, how can you NOT get one? (I sound like a raging fanboy..lol)
 
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