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Audio Editing Evaluation

If I post a clip next week on vimeo, will I be able to get an evaluation on whether or not a heavy wind can be removed from a scene?

If it cannot, the whole damn scene will have to be ADRed.

I will upload it this coming week.

I removed the music already so it is easier to pin point.
 
I will work out something in the spring for someone with more experience than me with audio to fix this.

Not for nothing, I can't help but recall working on a studnet film with students from Pratt University and we were shooting a rooftop scene at night. Only one person wore the headphones, the sound guy with a lot more responsibilites than with our crew and all the equiptment was analog with a reel to reel recorder. He had the hearing of a bat. He made us relocate 3 times on the rooftop to avoid wind sounds like this. He's even yell "Plane" to stop the take if a plane was passing by. And, he'd tell us when we could continue. It's a shame he met with a terrible accident that messed him up for life. He managed the mics, the recorder, the mix, and looked out for noise all by himself.

That's got me thinking of expectations for a sound guy.
 
I have listened to it on my studio monitors. There are all sorts of problems in there. The background ambience, rustling would be ok if it were consistent but it isn't. That could be fixed by using parts of it throughout for consistency.
However, some of the voice is pretty average as well. Has someone already been stuffing round with the sound in the middle section from round about 2:16 I think it was? It sounds to me like noise reduction has been attempted..and done poorly. Has someone tried using a pink noise filter in there?
Also was the voice for "Children of my children" near the start of the scene recorded in a bad sounding room rather than outdoors like most of it?
In all honesty here, it would be far more desirable to ADR this if possible, as there are so many unmatched sections of the audio it sounds hotch potch and would be very difficult to get this right. I have done stuff like this before and spent a lot of time on fixing it. It could be done but would it be worth it as compared to getting the actors back and doing ADR in a good sound environment?
 
Here again, it is easier to hire a highly skilled audio pro to fix it as Alcove said it can be done than to ADR this scene. It is hard enough to get back a very popular actress in this country who is booked years ahead of time. When you have a popular overseas actress in the cast, the task is even more difficult. I'll find a journeyman editor to work on it. Yes, attempts were made to repair the woese of it with software.

It will be both cheaper and easier to get a pro audio editor than to bring back Katarina from Serbia.
 
Here again, the aim should be to do it right as it is being shot.

Assume it cannot be ADRed or repaired in post and do it right. The sound guy I knew when I helped studnet filmmaker at Pratt University was very focussed with what he had to do and he was everywhere on set with the mics, the recordins, and mix. A focussed individual makes all the difference. It was aggrovating to have to move around the rooftop three time. But, his dedication avoided the need for ADR and his stopping takings for planes make all of the recorded dialogue useful.

We were just very lucky to have Katarina in the production at all. It's a matter of finding the right journeyman audio editor now with both the skills and techniques to fix this scene.
 
Out of the whole cast, Katarina most likely will not be able to return for IC3, because of her heavy workload. I have not evven heard from her in months. The rest of the cast is excited to do all they can to help with IC2 to bring it to the finish line. They want to help out this spring because they already know a Hollywood professional I introduced them to, a friend of mine, who will work with us in IC3 when I get the SAG Ultra Low Budget Contracts. That's why casting IC3 will not be a problem.

So, getting Katarina back? It does not look good. I will make every effort. But, for IC3, I will need to keep a backup for her role waiting in the wings because she has a lead role.
 
Is it possible to post a clip of the audio BEFORE it was likely made worse by someone playing round with it badly? Which of the actresses in the clip can't be returned for ADR? If you tell me which one they are, I will watch and see how bad their parts sound as compared to the rest. Perhaps ADR'ing of their part may not be possible, but what about the others?
 
Due to the size of the HD files, maybe 2 weeks from now as I am maxed out with vimeo and I need to present to the cast what they are needed to do.

Trust me, the original audio is worse, not better.

Katarina plays Colonel Roberta Azzurra. She is the cyborg standing next to Artemis. Also, she is the one Artemis has look at herself in the mirror, if that helps to know who is who.
 
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Maybe it's just out of context but that sentence makes no sense to me. Even if you fix the grammatical error so it reads "Children of my children are doable." I still don't get it.

Is it part of a longer sentence? :huh:
 
Hi everyone, I have followed this and many other Mike threads and I need to finally weigh in, bc I know and worked with Mike. Mike is a nice fellow, but sometimes simply uniformed and misguided.I did the sound on this movie. The problems with the scene that he is asking you to critique is ironically mostly his doing. You are hearing a truly atrocious post sound production attempt. All of the dialog was recorded in the park, so anything that sounds like it was done in different rooms is poor noise reduction of varying degrees.I myself helped him to take out some wind, but those files were not meant to be placed naked, obviously they need sound/ design/ambience/music under them,to sell the effect. I just watched an earlier cut with much less futzing around(only three or four lines,and some gaps were sloppily left in ) but it sounds leaps and bounds better. As all of you unanimously said, you dont mind the rustling and breeze, it is natural after all, considering they are surrounded by 100s of trees in a park in Queens NY. I could show all of you that cut right now and I bet that you all would think its fine , maybe a little EQ or level mixing needed.

Many of you wisely suggested to place ambience tone throughout that scene to smooth things out. Mike claimed there was no room tone to be found. This is just another case of his uniformed and misguidedness. You may have seen Mikes posting of the scene with 2 suns with the actress walking around for a minute.
We recored audio for that scene and many like like it. So there is lots of ambience to work with all over the takes.

Mike suggests a sound guy should call cut. This sounds highly suspect to me, totally amateur hour, and I would like to hear Alcoves take on this. I cant imagine anyone but the director having that responsibility, or maybe the actor himself might pause the scene. I couldn't imagine a crew member cutting off Christian Bale or Glenn Close in the middle of one of their takes. Tempers would likely flair.
They would probably be like WTF is that and why is he cutting me off on my take. You do that more than once and who would they fire, you or Glenn Close. As a matter of fact, if you have not already heard it, I suggest you guys check out Christian Bales tirade on the set on Terminator bc a lighting guy adjusted a light during his take and simply got in his eye line. Then you will see how a high priced actor on a million dollar set might might react to you interfering.

What I do when there is a sound issue during a take, is try to make eye contact with the director or DP or 1st AD and use body language to acknowledge what happened and determine if we should continue the take. 95% of the time we do continue.
I would be curious what Alcove says about this too. What is the best way to handle this situation

And I kid you not, there were a couple of takes when we had to call for silence on the set, and guess who was chatting, yes it was Mike, standing a few yards away chatting with the stunt guy at that time.

After the last day of shooting I asked the DP why he offered to do some of the editing for free. He told me he was afraid of Mike messing up his cinematography. Sadly he was right, as I see how Mike did such a poor job of sound post/mixing on that scene,thus making the sound, sound bad too.
 
Due to the size of the HD files, maybe 2 weeks from now as I am maxed out with vimeo and I need to present to the cast what they are needed to do.

Trust me, the original audio is worse, not better.

Katarina plays Colonel Roberta Azzurra. She is the cyborg standing next to Artemis. Also, she is the one Artemis has look at herself in the mirror, if that helps to know who is who.



"They want some way to control you because they brought you into the world"-definitely ADR that or remove any processing done there and redo the processsing. It is the bit that sounds like it has been mangled with a poor noise reduction attempt. If that actress can come back and ADR that line, then she could do her other lines also, I suspect. The reply " but we have been trying make them feel at easy with us" Is not grammatically correct. In other words it does not make sense in English. No one who has English as a first language would phrase things that way. However, since you are stuck with keeping it, the sound of it is actually not too bad. Her other lines don't sound too bad either. If she is the actress you can't get back to do ADR, keep her parts and a good editor can blend some of the background ambience in all the shots to smooth it over.
 
I think he has a right to defend his reputation. This is his career after all and Mike said that the audio was worse before he edited it.

Of course it's all just one word against the other unless we hear the raw files.
 
wheatgrinder
Yes this happens to be my first post, but I have been a reader of this forum for a long time, maybe there is a way to look up when I joined. I just like to browse and read it. I not really into posting on forums, any forum , I just like reading them, thats me, but then the topic involves my work , and I still waited and was not going to even bother posting but I just had to weigh in , at the very least to ask Alcove proper on-set etiquette, maybe learn a thing or two, although I am pretty sure the sound guy yelling cut or making the company move three times on a roof just seems laughable. I could be wrong so I was curious in Alcove and others opinions.

Ok now, where did I trash Mike C? My first paragraph said Mike is a nice fellow.
Its quite the opposite actually. He posted to my work (work for hire, whatever, ) One still feels proud and close to the work they do, even as a hired gun, at least I hope other people do. He literally mangled pretty good audio, and then asks people if it totally sucks and then says its worse than a Pratt student, and then says the original audio is even worse. I assure you it is not worse, its better, much better than that post production mess that you heard.

I am not saying Mike sucks. There is good technique and there is bad. I am just basing these statements on the material I am seeing and hearing, not on the person

This reminds me of the recent thread where people were talking saying the honest truth verse the ata boy approach etc.
 
It's a shame when it has to come down to a forum to air the difficulties between two people who worked on a film. I hope you two can iron things out.
I think that we can't really judge how this particular sequence can be fixed...whether it is possible in post or not, how much should be ADR'd etc WITHOUT hearing the original sound track. There has definitely been some poorly done attempts at noise reduction here, and anyone who works on audio for a living should be able to hear this.
 
"Uniformed"? He wears a uniform?

BTW, not a good idea to trash someone you have been working with, especially in a public forum. As far as I can remember he didn't say one bad word about you.

With the raw data I could probably do a very nice pass at the dialog. It would be smooth and - aside from the accents - intelligible. This would be especially true if I have access to all of the audio from the unused takes. It takes time and patience to do all of the things that a dialog/sound editor does - checkerboarding, NR, EQ, etc. It takes even more time to learn how a dialog/sound editor does his/her job.

As far as tone is concerned grabbing bits and pieces to create a continuous ambience rarely works well, especially in an active outdoors environment. You really need to record at least one minute tone (I prefer five minutes) on the day of the shoot; it will not be the same tone if recorded at a later date.

Mike suggests a sound guy should call cut. This sounds highly suspect to me, totally amateur hour, and I would like to hear Alcoves take on this. I cant imagine anyone but the director having that responsibility

Actually, when sound was first introduced, the production sound mixer was given the power to yell "Cut!" if the sound was bad. This held true until WWII. A few of the new crop of directors - Tarrantino for example - have given this power back to the PSM.

The PSM should cut a scene for poor sound quality, say if there is a major technical problem or a loud sound like a plane or motorcycle or lawnmower is actually obscuring the dialog. And as to having big name stars being upset by calling a take for technical reasons the truly talented, truly dedicated stars understand; they'll be even more upset if they have to reshoot because someone FUBARed on a technical level. There's a world of difference between calling attention to a serious technical problem and screwing up during a take (your Bale example).

Other than major audio problems a competent PSM keeps notes on the audio log for all other audio issues - a dropped prop, a mumbled line, a distant plane, etc. As to making "eye contact" with the director or crew member they have their own job on which to concentrate, sound is YOUR job as PSM. If the issue is serious enough it's your job to make the call, not have someone else confirm it for you. BTW, if the rest of the crew has headphones like they are supposed to they will hear what's going on for themselves.

At the low/no/mini/micro budget level you have to make all sorts of compromises; sometimes that means letting some audio issues get by as you do not have the time, personnel, budget, etc. This is mostly because the PSM is also swinging the boom and has to concentrate on that part of the job more than the others, so things will get by. As an audio post guy I understand that, which is also why I preach such incredible on-set production sound discipline.


I have no idea of your actual skill level, but based upon your attitudes I would hesitate to work with you. You are just as uniformed - oops, I mean uninformed - and misguided as the person you are trashing so publicly. At least he is asking for advice and taking his public beating like a man.
 
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