Audio Editing Evaluation

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

If I post a clip next week on vimeo, will I be able to get an evaluation on whether or not a heavy wind can be removed from a scene?

If it cannot, the whole damn scene will have to be ADRed.

I will upload it this coming week.

I removed the music already so it is easier to pin point.

 

[rocksure]

If I post a clip next week on vimeo, will I be able to get an evaluation on whether or not a heavy wind can be removed from a scene?

If it cannot, the whole damn scene will have to be ADRed.

I will upload it this coming week.

I removed the music already so it is easier to pin point.

Without having heard it, if you mean it was recorded without a proper blimp and fluffy windjammer over the microphone and it is wind noise in the microphone, then you will be scratching to be able to remove it. Next to impossible to remove all traces of that. Low cut it to get rid of the rumbling, but you are probably stuck with the frequencies that are higher in the spectrum.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

I just uploaded the file. I'll post the link tonight. It is better to see the actual clip to evaluate.

Obviously, audio editors are like film / video editors. Each has their own skill set and experience. I can edit in a stunt dummy into and action scene while another editor cannot. I can digitally remove someone walking behind an actress like they are not there. Other editors may not. My audio editing is a learn as I go along. So, I'm looking to see if it is worth it to give an audio editor I may look to hire for the job of removing the wind. However, if they cannot, they should not accept full compensation. That's only right. The scene has my actress from Serbia and another actress is out of state. So, it would be worth a shot to give it to a very experienced audio editor to try to fix.

 

[brianluce]

ADR it. You can remove it but what you're left with won't sound right.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Not as simple as that when one actress in the scene lives all the way out in Serbia. It would be simpler to find a gifted audio editor with the right combination of experience and skill to successfully remove it like it was never there. Such editors exist. It's just a matter of finding them.

In post, I've seen miracle workers before. I've even performed what others would view as impossible with visual stuff just with techniques and experience. It's a matter of finding an audio editor who can defy the odds and make the miracle happen.

We will be doing ADR. I don't know if I can get our friend back from Serbia. She is very popular and tightly booked with productions in her own country.

That's why I have to investigate the possibility that a gifted audio editor can remove the wind.

 

[brianluce]

I'm gonna take cover, Alcove will bust this thread up real soon. It won't be pretty.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Okay, here we go. Here is the clip:

http://vimeo.com/34786356

PW is mdmpllc

This is beyond me to fix.

If no one here can remove the wind sound, I do have more resources.

When I get my tax refund in the spring, I will take a copy of this clip to the major audio editing houses and see who they have who can remove the wind. The fact that one audio house in particular has contracts with all of the raido stations and cable TV networks in the area means they must have a certain percentage of audio editors who can get the job done.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Im no expert, but for the subject matter, and considering the rest of the project, only one shot sounded BAD.. and that had the speaker off camera so should be easy fix.

I could clearly hear every line.

There are no "WIND noises" like where the wind hits the mic and makes a HORRIBLE sound!

This footage just has a bit of the forest, breeze in the trees ambiance, Id leave it alone. A bit of EQ to bring up the voice frequencies is about all thats needed.

It really only stands out when you CUT the audio between lines.

IF you have "room tone" or in this case location ambiance, just fill in the gaps to make it all sound like the same space.... if not just find all the spots where there is ONLY the forest ambiance and make a nice "bed" to fill in the bits where its missing, focus on those cuts and I think it will be OK.



Thats my opinion. I know you have a lot of love invested in the project, but maybe its time to finish up the best you can and move on to your next sweetheart! just saying..

 

[rayw]

Yeah, I was expecting some truly wretched wind noise crackling across the mic.
But like Wheat, I didn't hear anything that a mild track of background environmental wind couldn't overcome.

I think a editing house is just going to take your money, fiddle with it a smidge and say "Here ya go!"

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Thanks Wheat. We don't have room tone yet. I'll get it on our return to the shooting location this spring.

I hear voices inside takes in the background. I think it is fixable in Sound Forge to zoom in very tight around the dialogue.

The wind is louder in this scene than any other scene in the production where it is even noticable with the royalty free music I was using before I stripped it out.

 

[rayw]

You might be able to take a sample of the wind from your existing footage, copy and paste it end to end in your audio editor, and just try laying that in yourself.

 

[wheatgrinder]

oh, you have enough air in those shots to piece together a "room tone" bed.. its not hard.. a few seconds here and there there, when no ones talking, overlap a little mix to taste..

Think of it like color correction, not enhancement. Try and get the entire scene to sound the same.. like one long take. Even if the dialogue goes soft for a word or two, leveling it all out WITH the underlying forest ambiance will make it seem like the ambiance is ON PURPOSE..
Then a simple bit of underlying score to punch up the emotion and yer done..

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

That's worth a shot Rayw.

Thanks.

I've got to stay more on top of the crew in the Spring to record room tone for a good 2 minutes in every location we retrace. Two minutes worth should allow for bad sections with cars, planes, and trains passing outside the park that is close to a main drag.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Question on the flashing text messages for the robo vision. I know the text is large on a big scene. But, it is also representing the POV of how a machine sees the world, so it would be like a close-up. How small can it be and still give the illusion of the camera eyes view of a machine with layered streaming digital data appearing as something close to the cyborg.

People at a screening really had no problem about the size of the text too, I should point out since it represents a machine's POV of our world. It may be all right and I'm just being picky.

 

[rayw]

Okay, I recorded the audio on my editor and after only listening to it without the video I can clearly hear all sorts of audio disaster.

I retract my previous statement and concede your point.

I have no idea what the cost associated with getting the cast back out to location for ADR vs. handing this over to a professional audio editor - but I suspect that the editor is going to have fits with this.

I recorded a snippet of wind between dialog, cleaned that up a bit, C&Ped 3:30 minutes of it into another file, played both simultaneously and recorded.
It still sounds bad, especially between 2:20 and 3:00.
I can hear what sounds like at least three different locations, possibly as many as five, crazy quilted into a audio soup sandwich.
I can even hear someone's pet bird (sounds like a finch) chirping in the background.

I don't know if a pro can make two or three different indoor recordings match up with one or two outdoor recordings.

This is a beautiful example of what Alcove beats his poor head against the desk over about having a boom guy knowing what he's doing.

I'd try to ADR it.

The math and science of recording audio is fascinating.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

oh, you have enough air in those shots to piece together a "room tone" bed.. its not hard.. a few seconds here and there there, when no ones talking, overlap a little mix to taste..

Think of it like color correction, not enhancement. Try and get the entire scene to sound the same.. like one long take. Even if the dialogue goes soft for a word or two, leveling it all out WITH the underlying forest ambiance will make it seem like the ambiance is ON PURPOSE..
Then a simple bit of underlying score to punch up the emotion and yer done..

Good analogy, Wheat. Thanks.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Okay, I recorded the audio on my editor and after only listening to it without the video I can clearly hear all sorts of audio disaster.

I retract my previous statement and concede your point.

I have no idea what the cost associated with getting the cast back out to location for ADR vs. handing this over to a professional audio editor - but I suspect that the editor is going to have fits with this.

I recorded a snippet of wind between dialog, cleaned that up a bit, C&Ped 3:30 minutes of it into another file, played both simultaneously and recorded.
It still sounds bad, especially between 2:20 and 3:00.
I can hear what sounds like at least three different locations, possibly as many as five, crazy quilted into a audio soup sandwich.
I can even hear someone's pet bird (sounds like a finch) chirping in the background.

I don't know if a pro can make two or three different indoor recordings match up with one or two outdoor recordings.

This is a beautiful example of what Alcove beats his poor head against the desk over about having a boom guy knowing what he's doing.

I'd try to ADR it.

The math and science of recording audio is fascinating.

Thanks Rayw.

The average audio guy would have fits as a novice to audio like me. But, a seasoned pro is in a whole different league with know-how. I don't want to dismiss that possibility. All options need to remain open.

Bringing back Katarina from Serbia for the ADR may be a bigger challenge.

I will also start asking around outside of here and try the audio editing houses and some studio and industrial video people I know.

Wheat, I hear you about being too close to it. But, people in the production who have been seeing it evolve from the first version of the rough cut to now will vouch that it improves with each new edit.

I compare the scenes to scenes of TV shows in my DVD collection and I can see missing shots we need to add. Also, replacing a big scene where a good 2/3s have recycled footage makes the scene look cheap. Replacing the footage in that scene with new footage that follows that scene in the script with dialogue to connect it to the next scene will add value to the whole production.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I haven't listened to it on a nice set of speakers, but it's not too bad, I fix this kind of stuff all the time. It just needs to be smoothed out, which is a part of a proper audio post. Has there been a complete dialog edit using the audio from the unused takes? Has it been checker-boarded? Is there ambience/room tone? Has NR been applied? EQ? Not yet, I'm sure, and that's what makes the difference.

If you're looking for "Hollywood" perfection your going to have to toss Hollywood money at it. If you want solid intelligible dialog (apart from the accents) most of it is already there. This is audio post 101, and not that hard. The "difficult" part is acquiring the proper tools (software, speakers, room, etc.) and the experience.



BTW, the background ambience does not have to be from the set on the day of the shoot, but ambient-tone/room-tone does.

 

[Modern Day Myth Prod. LLC]

Thanks Alcove.

It all points to going back to location and recording that tone for a few minutes worth. Too short a clip of ambience will sound too repiticious.

I've seen an audio editor in the past toss out all the dialogue and build new audio from the outtakes a while back. It's not something I am as skilled as audio editors I've seen work.

 

[Alcove Audio]

I've seen an audio editor in the past toss out all the dialogue and build new audio from the outtakes a while back.

That's what I've studied so long and hard for so many years, and what I get paid to do. If you put in the same amount of time, experimentation and money you could do the same.



Most of the people in the world are not better than you or smarter than you, they're just trained differently.