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Anybody abandoning FCP...for good?
- Thread starter drc
- Start date
A ton of TV stations around here were finally just making the switch to full blown FCP, so I wonder what happens to them now. And they wanted me to stop using Premiere, HA! 
A ton of TV stations around here were finally just making the switch to full blown FCP, so I wonder what happens to them now. And they wanted me to stop using Premiere, HA!
Oh, it still works fine and they don't have to update to 64 bit computers. That's a big consideration.
Well, not yet, but you would think eventually they would...in the far away future, at least.
Macs consistently operate better than PCs, and it's really, really simple why this is true. Because a Mac is the only consumer computer that has software specifically written for its hardware. Windows must operate on dozens of competing computer systems, and inevitably has gaps and flaws in its functionality.
PC systems are mutts that often pull together components from various vendors, and the integration of 3rd-party drivers into Windows has always been a bumpy process leading to hair-pulling on the part of users. When I finally switched to Macs after using PCs for decades, I kicked myself for not doing it sooner. Suddenly, everything worked smoothly and quickly, and I wasn't subject to constant crashes.
Editing video on a Mac works efficiently and well, and FCP takes up surprisingly few system resources. I was so used to every operation on a PC taking up as much RAM as possible, I didn't realize until using a Mac that it could be otherwise. Macs don't have 30 operations running in the background on startup, and when you shut software down, it's actually down, and doesn't leave some component still running.
Sure, I've crashed software (including FCP) on Macs. But crashing one app doesn't typically destabilize the entire system, which has not been true for PCs I used. I leave my Mac Pro up and running for months, and rarely have to reboot it.
PC? Never again.
I'm sticking with FCP for the foreseeable future. I do have CS5, integrating Adobe After Effects into my workflow. And I use Premiere -- to convert AVCHD footage to ProRes for FCP.
PC systems are mutts that often pull together components from various vendors, and the integration of 3rd-party drivers into Windows has always been a bumpy process leading to hair-pulling on the part of users. When I finally switched to Macs after using PCs for decades, I kicked myself for not doing it sooner. Suddenly, everything worked smoothly and quickly, and I wasn't subject to constant crashes.
Editing video on a Mac works efficiently and well, and FCP takes up surprisingly few system resources. I was so used to every operation on a PC taking up as much RAM as possible, I didn't realize until using a Mac that it could be otherwise. Macs don't have 30 operations running in the background on startup, and when you shut software down, it's actually down, and doesn't leave some component still running.
Sure, I've crashed software (including FCP) on Macs. But crashing one app doesn't typically destabilize the entire system, which has not been true for PCs I used. I leave my Mac Pro up and running for months, and rarely have to reboot it.
PC? Never again.
I'm sticking with FCP for the foreseeable future. I do have CS5, integrating Adobe After Effects into my workflow. And I use Premiere -- to convert AVCHD footage to ProRes for FCP.
When is the last time you did serious work on Windows? I have never had Windows 7 crash, and I use it for intensive work on a daily basis. Sure, the occasional program has crashed, but never the entire system. I'm not trying to say Windows is better; I love my MacBook Pro. The simple fact of the matter is that Windows has come an incredibly far way from where is was years ago, as far as stability is concerned. A properly configured system is just as stable as any Mac I've ever used.
AVID supply a list of tried and tested machines that they strongly suggest you use. Stick to them and that worry is gone. Keep a clean machine setup only for editing and that'll solve a lot of issues with background services. My PC has never crashed out while editing.
That is an incredibly SUBJECTIVE statement and not an OBJECTIVE truth.
This is the perfect example of the kind of statement that is purely opinion being expressed as an absolute. Not everyone with a Mac has a flawless, crash free experience. And sometimes people with Windows DO have a perfect experience with no hiccups. All you can say is your personal opinion that may or may not be the same for other people.
I have nothing bad to say about Macs or PCs. I have plenty to say to zealots who think their opinions are indeed facts.
Where is the "like" button?
Yep, there are good and bad points to both OSs. I just work on a PC all day M-F for my job and I have no desire to have to switch gears to another operating system for my film work, so it's PC for me.
LOL. Hilarious.
I use both Mac and PC.
Macs dont have the horsepower or versatility of a PC and they never will. Why? Because everything about a Mac is geared toward entry level users, from marketing all the way down to how the software works. The last release of FCP proves that.
Mac people bad mouth PCs a lot... Its usually because of what some salesman has told them, what the guy on the commercial said and/or they are computer illiterate. Case in point; when needed I hire on more freelancers to help with bigger projects (usually post/FX work). If theres ever any problem in the pipeline, the PC people have always been the ones to troubleshoot and problem solve. This is true in anything from networking issues to production workflow. The Mac people cant break out of the box that Mr. Jobs told them to stay in. Their solution is usually "call the help line"..... Maybe all the mouse buttons confuse them?
And Macs crash just as much if not more than PCs. Period. AAMOF, the Adobe Suite crashes more on my Macs than my PCs.
Not to mention the cost versus performance issues. Look at Pixar, WETA and ILMs render farms.... You wont see an apple logo in there...
I'm not against anyone using a Mac, I'll use which ever the client pays me to use..... but for computing/graphics power theres no comparison. I would put any of the "mutts" from varied vendors I have built against any Mac any day of the week.
Dont drink the apple flavored kool-aid.
But back to the original topic.........
Most of the production companies/individuals I work for/with have migrated to Premiere or Avid......same for me.
On this thread only one person could be thought of as bad mouthing
PC's while three bad mouthed Mac.
Including you.
Okay, to be fair you did not bad mouth Mac - you insulted everyone who
uses a Mac. I gotta tell you, I just don't get it.
Wasn't it Pixar who commissioned a custom coded Linux system? The ease of setting up render farms on Linux would make sense for an animation company.
Personally I quite life FCP. It's great and intuitive on a personal level. Where AVID has the definite edge is in the larger facility installation. Excellent asset networking and professional support service. That is why it is the industry standard and I wanted to learn it. Of course AVID does run on a Mac but I did hear something about not supporting mac systems fully, worth checking out.
I don't really like Macs though myself. There was a time though that I was promising myself one as my next box but when push came to shove I couldn't justify the loss of power buying a mac would of meant due to the price.
IMO they deserve eternal ridicule and scorn for bringing out that terrible round mouse. They do have gorgeous screens though.
Personally I quite life FCP. It's great and intuitive on a personal level. Where AVID has the definite edge is in the larger facility installation. Excellent asset networking and professional support service. That is why it is the industry standard and I wanted to learn it. Of course AVID does run on a Mac but I did hear something about not supporting mac systems fully, worth checking out.
I don't really like Macs though myself. There was a time though that I was promising myself one as my next box but when push came to shove I couldn't justify the loss of power buying a mac would of meant due to the price.
IMO they deserve eternal ridicule and scorn for bringing out that terrible round mouse. They do have gorgeous screens though.
Not sure if I'm being included in the three, but...I didn't bad-mouth Macs. I would gladly do all of my editing on one. I only bad-mouthed the relative high-cost of Macs, and that's a very objective observation.
With Windows 7 the reliability issues may have been worked out. You gotta admit though that before 7 PC's had a pretty big chunk of issues. When I switched it was because I was tired of my computer crashing 8-12 times a day. It was built using the "approved componets". I switched to a Mac Pro and it crashes about once a week.
It's true, PC get's more power for less. Still, clients a lot of time are a bit more wide-eyed seeing the Mac tower. I build all the accessories on the camera when I shoot too; rails, monitor, FF, etc even if I don't really need it for the shoot. It increases client satisfaction haha. That "I'm getting more that what I'm paying for" feeling. Everyone has heard the "Mac is more professional/artistic" propaganda. Even if you don't believe it, there's a fair chance your client does.
There's rumors of Apple stopping the Mac Pro line. If that happens before my next upgrade then I'll probably switch back to PC. Honestly, dreading it just a little. I really like all the tid bits that OSX has like spaces, quick preview, everything working without installing a driver... The little things.
Professional Mac users know that it's not for the hardware (though it is aesthetically pleasing ) but the software. OSX goes through a major upgrade once a year or so and it's less than $30 to upgrade. Windows is every several years and it's like $100-400 to upgrade.
It's true, PC get's more power for less. Still, clients a lot of time are a bit more wide-eyed seeing the Mac tower. I build all the accessories on the camera when I shoot too; rails, monitor, FF, etc even if I don't really need it for the shoot. It increases client satisfaction haha. That "I'm getting more that what I'm paying for" feeling. Everyone has heard the "Mac is more professional/artistic" propaganda. Even if you don't believe it, there's a fair chance your client does.
There's rumors of Apple stopping the Mac Pro line. If that happens before my next upgrade then I'll probably switch back to PC. Honestly, dreading it just a little. I really like all the tid bits that OSX has like spaces, quick preview, everything working without installing a driver... The little things.
Professional Mac users know that it's not for the hardware (though it is aesthetically pleasing
) but the software. OSX goes through a major upgrade once a year or so and it's less than $30 to upgrade. Windows is every several years and it's like $100-400 to upgrade.
I've used and owned both Macs and PCs for many years. Never been a zealot for either but have always enjoyed editing on the Mac. I've been using Final Cut since 98 although I would periodically pick up the latest version of Premiere after hearing good things, only to pull my hair out until I switch back to FCP. Could just be me. Premiere and I have just never gotten along. I was very happy with Final Cut - until X came out. On a basic level, the inability to load an existing FCP file was pretty unforgivable. The worst part was Mac addicts viciously defending the new software and stating emphatically that anyone who expected it to be a 64bit version of the old FCP was an idiot. This new one of course was better, because Apple said so. <sigh> If they had called it iMovie Pro I wouldn't have had any problem with it. The fact that it was honestly intended to replace the Final Cut line I guess shows Apple's continued focus towards over simplification. The OS Lion's visual similarities to iOS only reinforces that to me personally. Why I would want my 27" desktop monitor to have a grid of giant candy colored icons like a touch screen phone when it's not a touch screen or a phone makes no sense to me. But that's me.
I can't say as I blame them though as their devices audience very quickly eclipsed their MacPro market. Just personally bummed. I have a very nice MacPro currently that I will continue to use through our next short project but will likely take another look at the tea leaves before our next feature. Might be time to take another look at the Avid I suppose. Just please don't make me try Premiere again.
I can't say as I blame them though as their devices audience very quickly eclipsed their MacPro market. Just personally bummed. I have a very nice MacPro currently that I will continue to use through our next short project but will likely take another look at the tea leaves before our next feature. Might be time to take another look at the Avid I suppose. Just please don't make me try Premiere again.
Windows XP was pretty damn reliable, actually. Anyway, I'm on Windows 7, have had my computer for 1.5 years, edited a feature film on it, and it has crashed once. While doing some random internet surfing. Never crashed during any of the editing (and the movie is 84 minutes long).
I do appreciate what you're saying about impressing customers, though. Let them sip that Kool-Aid!
Macs trade versatility for reliability, efficiency, and good-looking-ness.
While PC on the other hand, gives more power for less dollar with more software choice.
As for crashing, from my experience, Mac definitely crashes much less than PC. by crashing, i don't mean certain software crashing, because those softwares are always made by 3rd party, so it's not really apple or microsoft's fault. I mean the operating system crashing, PC far more than Mac.
It's understandable too, since Windows has to be able to run on all sorts of machines, while Mac are customized to work perfectly with the very limited number of machines apple sells.
There is nothing one can do that the other can't.
You can buy good monitors, towers, and install themes, as well as add-ons to make your PC look as good as Mac's interface, but Mac comes with all those built in, and it just works. And sure you can tweak your setttings to make it more secure and reliable, but the tweaking itself means more work.
As for Macs, you can also customize your Mac to be as powerful as a PC, but at extra cost, and unless you've a mac Pro, it's a pain to upgrade, change harddrive, add ram, and what not. There is a Mac replacement to just about any windows software, but most softwares comes out for PC a few months before Mac. Sure it's there, but it means extra waiting.
As for Apple likes over simplification. It's a perspective thing. When graphical user interface first came out, the command line loving geeks called it over-simplification, appealing only to the most basic users, and look what it has grown to now. It's like if you want to drive manual or automatic. Manual gives better acceleration, better fuel economy, and tends to be cheaper, but most cars on the roads are automatic anyway. It's just all about being user-friendly.
In regard toFCP X, i agree, it definitely does not satisfy the need of professionals now. But it's paving the way. But an analogy would be that, everyone wanted a faster horse, but apple hit you with a car. Now this is not a modern sport car apple hit you with, but an old 17th century steam powered vehical. It's not faster than horses, it over heats, there's no road for it to run on, but it's still a car. In due course, it will replace horses, but for now, all it has is a lot of potential.
The two systems are really just a matter of personal preferences.
Some people want to be able to change their system to exactly how they want it to be, while others, such as myself, would rather spend more money, and not worry about the technical aspect of things and just get creative.
As for the really, really proffessionals, there's no difference. Some of them want to customize their work flow so perfectly that they invest in their own linux based operating system, while others want something that's familiar and just works, in which case they have spec-ed out mac pros.
I don't see how one is any better than another. All i see is how one is better suited than another for any one individual.
While PC on the other hand, gives more power for less dollar with more software choice.
As for crashing, from my experience, Mac definitely crashes much less than PC. by crashing, i don't mean certain software crashing, because those softwares are always made by 3rd party, so it's not really apple or microsoft's fault. I mean the operating system crashing, PC far more than Mac.
It's understandable too, since Windows has to be able to run on all sorts of machines, while Mac are customized to work perfectly with the very limited number of machines apple sells.
There is nothing one can do that the other can't.
You can buy good monitors, towers, and install themes, as well as add-ons to make your PC look as good as Mac's interface, but Mac comes with all those built in, and it just works. And sure you can tweak your setttings to make it more secure and reliable, but the tweaking itself means more work.
As for Macs, you can also customize your Mac to be as powerful as a PC, but at extra cost, and unless you've a mac Pro, it's a pain to upgrade, change harddrive, add ram, and what not. There is a Mac replacement to just about any windows software, but most softwares comes out for PC a few months before Mac. Sure it's there, but it means extra waiting.
As for Apple likes over simplification. It's a perspective thing. When graphical user interface first came out, the command line loving geeks called it over-simplification, appealing only to the most basic users, and look what it has grown to now. It's like if you want to drive manual or automatic. Manual gives better acceleration, better fuel economy, and tends to be cheaper, but most cars on the roads are automatic anyway. It's just all about being user-friendly.
In regard toFCP X, i agree, it definitely does not satisfy the need of professionals now. But it's paving the way. But an analogy would be that, everyone wanted a faster horse, but apple hit you with a car. Now this is not a modern sport car apple hit you with, but an old 17th century steam powered vehical. It's not faster than horses, it over heats, there's no road for it to run on, but it's still a car. In due course, it will replace horses, but for now, all it has is a lot of potential.
The two systems are really just a matter of personal preferences.
Some people want to be able to change their system to exactly how they want it to be, while others, such as myself, would rather spend more money, and not worry about the technical aspect of things and just get creative.
As for the really, really proffessionals, there's no difference. Some of them want to customize their work flow so perfectly that they invest in their own linux based operating system, while others want something that's familiar and just works, in which case they have spec-ed out mac pros.
I don't see how one is any better than another. All i see is how one is better suited than another for any one individual.
with great power comes great responsibility.... to manage your system...
I constantly bad mouth PCs... specifically Windows PCs... I cut my teeth on the VAX with punch card programmed fortran on a teletype. Then onto the TRS-80 (had to program my on interface to the disks to have a more menu driven experience - although at first, it was audio casette based storage) where I switched to BASIC... skip a bit... 10 years as a network admin/ system admin doing high end security kinda stuff.
7 years of it, I held Apple Systems, Desktop and Portables certifications. I've worked on just about every system out there and don't consider myself computer illiterate at all.
I prefer the interface on the Apple side of things and can give you specific issues I have with the Windows and *nix side of the PC (Macs are PCs as well, they're even intel based now), but won't bore you with the details. "Death of a million papercuts" is the most apt description I can give to my problems with windows... but that aside;
the interface for FCP X is too far removed from the standard way of working to be effective. The technology was half assed (although wonderful in its vision) in its scope and the fact that they thought they could just drop the old version is rediculous. If FCP were the only thing I used a computer for - and I never had to touch the rest of the OS at all, I'd be on Windows for certain... but the fact is, I use the web and e-mail and word processors and program and ... and... and ...
I'm still running Final Cut Studio 1 and it seems to still work or me, it didn't stop working when FCS2 or 3 or X came out... so I don't see what the big hub-bub is.
Oh, and apple is not and never has been a software company... it's a hardware company, like dell and HP, not competing with MS or Adobe at all... they just make the "whole widget" and no one else does... which seems to confuse folks trying to make the comparisons.
Software is meant to drive hardware sales, period.
Software is meant to drive hardware sales, period.