Which Canon?

[JoeBloom]

Hoping those with better, more extensive knowledge can help on this subject that although has been massively debated I'm struggling to find a definitive answer.
I'll be looking to get myself a DSLR very soon, and I've narrowed it down to Canon 550d, 600d, or 650d. All of which have excellent video capabilities (its main use for me of course), however other than price and a swivel/pull out viewfinder on the 650d it is difficult to identify what might be best for me. The price isn't such a huge issue between these as they are all fairly close, unless of course saving a few bucks on a cheaper camera makes sense and doesn't remove any important features from me/the kit.
Please share your thoughts, my best thought right now is that since the 650d is a pretty fresh camera at the moment, it might in the long run have a better lifespan in terms of usability for me as I progress as a filmmaker?
Any help appreciated!
Joe.

 

[Zensteve]

I bought the T2i (550D) after the T3i (600D) came out, to save a few bucks. While the T3i had the swiveling flipout screen, I use an external monitor anyway. If you don't plan on getting an external monitor anytime soon, the flipout screen on the T3i could be rather useful and worth the extra bux.

The T4i (650D) has the new "autofocus while shooting video" mode. Dunno how well that works. I'm not sure what the big improvements were between the T3i and T4i.

But yeah, the swivel screen difference between T2i & T3i is something to consider.

 

[JoeBloom]

I bought the T2i (550D) after the T3i (600D) came out, to save a few bucks. While the T3i had the swiveling flipout screen, I use an external monitor anyway. If you don't plan on getting an external monitor anytime soon, the flipout screen on the T3i could be rather useful and worth the extra bux.

The T4i (650D) has the new "autofocus while shooting video" mode. Dunno how well that works. I'm not sure what the big improvements were between the T3i and T4i.

But yeah, the swivel screen difference between T2i & T3i is something to consider.

Thank you. From what I have seen on the autofocus, it works relatively well but is slower than some other similar cameras by Sony and Nikon.

I'm not sure of any other specifications that are different from the three other than swivel screens and autofocus, my only inclination toward the 650d is that (ofcourse other than the swivel screen and autofocus) it is the latest product in the line and this may mean I would benefit from a product that would have a longer lifespan for whatever reason, such as build quality or other features which I am mostly unaware of.

Is it right in thinking that a lot of the variations in specifications would mostly impact photography, which is a subsidiary feature for me and thus not as important, and not necessarily the quality of my video as 550d/600d/650d are all extremely similar.

 

[knightly]

I just did all of that research within the last month. I settled on the T3i as the upgrades to the T4i were mostly on the Photography side of the camera, not enough for me on the video side to justify the extra money. I got the body only from "Get It Digital" on amazon. It was listed as a refurb, but that was so they could buy the body + kit lens ones, strip out the lens and sell them body only. Which dropped the price to $500ish. I don't autofocus, so that's not an issue for me at all. I'm now getting old 35mm cameras from craigslist that folks are getting rid of and not realizing the lenses are worth $$$... so for $30, I get a nice 50-300 EF zoom lens (manual only) and have a 35mm camera body as a prop for films, or a tear apart project for entertainment.

Other brand lenses (I'm currently running Nikon AF lenses that I had around) have mount adapters to EOS body, I've got a $10 AF > EOS adapter ring that works like a champ!

Pawn shops have tons of older Minolta lenses with MC and MD mounts that are cheaper off brand things for <$30 that can be adapted as well.

 

[shuttered]

Just a quick tip, don't count the AUTOFOCUS as you won't be using any auto mode when you do video. i previously had 600D (now upgraded to 5dm2) and i could say i'm satisfied with it. I recommend going for 600D because it's cheaper than 650D and the edge of it versus t2i is that it has flip screen. i am using 5dm2 now and i wish i can have the lcd screen flippable. cos i don't have external lcd yet.

the thing is, you are buying a dslr for you to practice and it wont take long until you will want to upgrade to either 60d or full frame. so better buy the midrange price among the three which is 600D as you will be changing camera sooner than you think when you progress and when you will find out your entry level camera ain't that good anymore

 

[MileCreations]

I would reccomend the 600D/t3i. The autofocus sounds like a good pull and I thought it was until recently I saw it in demonstration and quite frankly I was disappointed :/ if you're using video I think manual is the way to go
The swivel screen on the 600D is the reason I'd go with it rather than than the 550D

 

[JoeBloom]

I just did all of that research within the last month. I settled on the T3i as the upgrades to the T4i were mostly on the Photography side of the camera, not enough for me on the video side to justify the extra money. I got the body only from "Get It Digital" on amazon. It was listed as a refurb, but that was so they could buy the body + kit lens ones, strip out the lens and sell them body only. Which dropped the price to $500ish. I don't autofocus, so that's not an issue for me at all. I'm now getting old 35mm cameras from craigslist that folks are getting rid of and not realizing the lenses are worth $$$... so for $30, I get a nice 50-300 EF zoom lens (manual only) and have a 35mm camera body as a prop for films, or a tear apart project for entertainment.

Other brand lenses (I'm currently running Nikon AF lenses that I had around) have mount adapters to EOS body, I've got a $10 AF > EOS adapter ring that works like a champ!

Pawn shops have tons of older Minolta lenses with MC and MD mounts that are cheaper off brand things for <$30 that can be adapted as well.

Thanks, that was my understanding that it was mainly for photography benefits. Interesting advice about getting cheaper kit, however I know nothing about lenses and I'm OK with just buying a kit with the lens to start off so I know what I'm getting, they come with 18-55mm lenses which is suitable for most video correct? I'm not entirely sure on the benefits I would get from any different lenses, I don't plan to zoom much because I just don't think this is good practice unless the shot requires it.

Just a quick tip, don't count the AUTOFOCUS as you won't be using any auto mode when you do video. i previously had 600D (now upgraded to 5dm2) and i could say i'm satisfied with it. I recommend going for 600D because it's cheaper than 650D and the edge of it versus t2i is that it has flip screen. i am using 5dm2 now and i wish i can have the lcd screen flippable. cos i don't have external lcd yet.

the thing is, you are buying a dslr for you to practice and it wont take long until you will want to upgrade to either 60d or full frame. so better buy the midrange price among the three which is 600D as you will be changing camera sooner than you think when you progress and when you will find out your entry level camera ain't that good anymore

Yeah, I understand, autofocus is a feature that only enthusiasts would get enjoyment out of it wouldn't have much application for when I start making actual films.
I like the way you think! Hopefully I will progress quickly and want more power(!!).

I would reccomend the 600D/t3i. The autofocus sounds like a good pull and I thought it was until recently I saw it in demonstration and quite frankly I was disappointed :/ if you're using video I think manual is the way to go
The swivel screen on the 600D is the reason I'd go with it rather than than the 550D

Yes this has become my understanding now.

Thank you all for your input, very helpful! Everyone seems to have the same view. The only two things that are pulling me toward the 650d is the touch screen, I know it's just fancy but I consider it actually a helpful feature to speed up setup, playback, etc, I've seen it demoed and those demoing it have said it does speed up things and when they go back to their other cameras they wish it had the touchscreen too. Also, am I right in saying that the 600d records video in 1080, and that only? Whereas the 650d allows for 1080, 720, or 640, and I'm sure I was told via a youtube video that the fps on 720 was double that on 1080 for when things get quick.
Is this even that important? Should I always be recording in 1080 if I want to get serious one day?

Thanks for your help so far!

 

[8salacious9]

whats your budget? i have a t3i, the t3i is now cheaper than the t2i in england anyway really weird :S if i was in your position now? i would get the t3i body only, and get the 50mm 1.8 mk2 canon lens, or if i had a bit more dosh id get the samyang 35mm 1.4 video lens (declicked) although that lens is really only for video so if you did want to do photography not a wise choice unless your really good at dslr photography skills.

 

[8salacious9]

Also, am I right in saying that the 600d records video in 1080, and that only? Whereas the 650d allows for 1080, 720, or 640, and I'm sure I was told via a youtube video that the fps on 720 was double that on 1080 for when things get quick.
Is this even that important? Should I always be recording in 1080 if I want to get serious one day?

Thanks for your help so far!

wrong the 600d records 1080p 25fps 24fps pal, 720p 25fps 50fps, and sd format also but i never use that.

if your saying a touchscreen is worth that much more money then your wrong, it still takes the same amount of touches to change settings does it not? or even if it was quicker, is 2 seconds of your life really that much of a difference? probably not.

heres a good comparison:

600d from digital rev £359.00
http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-eos-600d-dslr-body/MTExMDU_A

50mm mk2 £75
http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-ef-50mm-f-1/NTgy

total cost: £434

if you want a better lens then go for this lens: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samyang-3...=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item19d2fce24b

£359.99

total cost would be £718.99 which is the lens that im next aiming for..

before you ask, lens is more important than body, t4i has no hold over t3i the extra cost isnt justified in my opinion

 

[MileCreations]

The only two things that are pulling me toward the 650d is the touch screen, I know it's just fancy but I consider it actually a helpful feature to speed up setup, playback, etc, I've seen it demoed and those demoing it have said it does speed up things and when they go back to their other cameras they wish it had the touchscreen too. Also, am I right in saying that the 600d records video in 1080, and that only? Whereas the 650d allows for 1080, 720, or 640, and I'm sure I was told via a youtube video that the fps on 720 was double that on 1080 for when things get quick.
Is this even that important? Should I always be recording in 1080 if I want to get serious one day

I'd forgotten about the touch screen update. I don't want to sound like a 'fanboy' but I would only get a non-apple with touch if I had thoroughly tested it. Personally on cameras I'm for all the buttons.

600D definitely allows 1080p and 720p (720p is also at 50fps or 60fps depending on the country) and I think it has 480p but I'm not near my camera at the moment but can check tomorrow.

Since getting it I've never shot below 1080 except to test the higher frame rate. And I don't see a reason to... Always record at 1080, you might end up regretting not doing it one day

 

[JoeBloom]

whats your budget? i have a t3i, the t3i is now cheaper than the t2i in england anyway really weird :S if i was in your position now? i would get the t3i body only, and get the 50mm 1.8 mk2 canon lens, or if i had a bit more dosh id get the samyang 35mm 1.4 video lens (declicked) although that lens is really only for video so if you did want to do photography not a wise choice unless your really good at dslr photography skills.

Thanks for the input, I don't have an exact budget, I am a student and the funds for it are most likely going to come from my mother, she knows I need one for my studies so she wants to help. I mentioned around £500 to her, but the cheaper the better really.

Could you please explain in any lamens terms why that lens you suggested (the first one) would be better than the one that comes with the 600D kit, I haven't used a DSLR for some time and I forget the benefits of varying lenses, forgive me.

wrong the 600d records 1080p 25fps 24fps pal, 720p 25fps 50fps, and sd format also but i never use that.

if your saying a touchscreen is worth that much more money then your wrong, it still takes the same amount of touches to change settings does it not? or even if it was quicker, is 2 seconds of your life really that much of a difference? probably not.

heres a good comparison:

600d from digital rev £359.00
http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-eos-600d-dslr-body/MTExMDU_A

50mm mk2 £75
http://www.digitalrev.com/product/canon-ef-50mm-f-1/NTgy

total cost: £434

if you want a better lens then go for this lens: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samyang-3...=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item19d2fce24b

£359.99

total cost would be £718.99 which is the lens that im next aiming for..

before you ask, lens is more important than body, t4i has no hold over t3i the extra cost isnt justified in my opinion

Thanks for this info too. £434 for the body and the lens seems a good deal. Glad I was wrong about the recording formats, and I accept that I am probably wrong about the benefits of the touchscreen etc. Again, why might the lens you suggested be the right option?

I'd forgotten about the touch screen update. I don't want to sound like a 'fanboy' but I would only get a non-apple with touch if I had thoroughly tested it. Personally on cameras I'm for all the buttons.

600D definitely allows 1080p and 720p (720p is also at 50fps or 60fps depending on the country) and I think it has 480p but I'm not near my camera at the moment but can check tomorrow.

Since getting it I've never shot below 1080 except to test the higher frame rate. And I don't see a reason to... Always record at 1080, you might end up regretting not doing it one day

That's fair. Thanks yeah it doesn't matter about the 480 was just wondering but that's cleared up now thanks.
That's a very good point, I wouldn't want to wish I had better image quality in some footage that I use at a later date or etc, I'm not completely aware of the benefits of higher FPS other than the obvious but lacking a better image resolution when I might want it later would be silly, as I can always size down in edit but not up (right?) for internet sharing etc, but definitely would want decent film works available in the highest resolution for possibly playing up on my HDTV for a start, maybe one day even greater platforms, you get the idea.

Thank you everyone for your help on this, you're all awesome, didn't expect such quick and educated responses, so thanks.

 

[knightly]

55mm with the 1.6x crop from the sensor (APS-C) will get you to 80mm which is a decent range for a closeup... the 18 is a decent wide shot. For more of the 70's aesthetic (backgrounds brought really close to the subject and the image really compressed flat), you'll want a longer lens (better for nature photography as well as you can't get close to those subjects). Adding a 55-250mm (or thereabouts) will get you that set of distances.

I'm using prime (no zoom) lenses to get more control over DoF so I have options when composing a shot. The lower f-stop options give more freedom to choose the amount of blur in the backgrounds.

 

[8salacious9]

Thanks for the input, I don't have an exact budget, I am a student and the funds for it are most likely going to come from my mother, she knows I need one for my studies so she wants to help. I mentioned around £500 to her, but the cheaper the better really.

Could you please explain in any lamens terms why that lens you suggested (the first one) would be better than the one that comes with the 600D kit, I haven't used a DSLR for some time and I forget the benefits of varying lenses, forgive me.



Thanks for this info too. £434 for the body and the lens seems a good deal. Glad I was wrong about the recording formats, and I accept that I am probably wrong about the benefits of the touchscreen etc. Again, why might the lens you suggested be the right option?



That's fair. Thanks yeah it doesn't matter about the 480 was just wondering but that's cleared up now thanks.
That's a very good point, I wouldn't want to wish I had better image quality in some footage that I use at a later date or etc, I'm not completely aware of the benefits of higher FPS other than the obvious but lacking a better image resolution when I might want it later would be silly, as I can always size down in edit but not up (right?) for internet sharing etc, but definitely would want decent film works available in the highest resolution for possibly playing up on my HDTV for a start, maybe one day even greater platforms, you get the idea.

Thank you everyone for your help on this, you're all awesome, didn't expect such quick and educated responses, so thanks.

well to be honest its down to personal preference and an accumulation of knowledge.

so kit lens is 18-55, image quality is good, but not really that great but still acceptable.

i am wanting to build what everyone called a set of primes, why primes? well (not saying this is 100% accurate) but prime lenses are generally cheaper, also have better image quality, than zooms for price comparison.

the 50mm 1.8 mk2 is cheap as hell, also in my opinion holds very high quality more so than the kit lens, then again thats my opinion.

the kit lens was good when i first used it, its also ok for tight situations, but other than that, iv probably used it 3 times in 4 months, whereas the 50mm is on my camera about 99% of the time.

also for learning about shots id say your better off with the 50mm, then you can learn more from the bokeh effect, also you can judge the focus better as you make mistakes, i probably had 3 pics out of every 20 in focus when i first started, im now getting at least 13 shots out of 20 in focus, (iv only ever used dslrs since april this year)

as you build confidence with the 50mm you could look to other lenses, i wish i knew what i did now and i wouldnt have bothered getting kit lens coulda saved so much.

 

[icba pictures]

Advantages of the Canon T4i vs T3i:

Has a touch screen Yes vs No

Fewer buttons to worry about and direct interaction with camera menus
Video autofocus Phase detection vs None

Automatically focuses shooting video
Many more cross-type focus points 9 vs 1

Grab focus in difficult situations
Has in-camera HDR Yes vs No

Combines multiple exposures to capture high dynamic range
Better maximum light sensitivity 12,800 ISO vs 6,400 ISO

The T4i's maximum light sensitivity is 1 f-stop better
Less startup delay 700 ms vs 1500 ms

2.1x less delay when turning on
Shoots faster 5 fps vs 3.7 fps

Around 40% faster continuous shooting
Better boost ISO 25,600 ISO vs 12,800 ISO

The T4i's boost ISO is 1 f-stop better

The ISO was why I chose to give it a go, also the price dropped to $599 no shipping or tax...
I guess it doesn't hurt any to have the T4i. I was going to get a refurb T3i from Canon but they sold out before I decided to click buy, so I had to "settle" for the T4i off Ebay.
Prime lenses are the way to go, the nifty 50 is a great place to start, but I may pony up the extra few bucks for the 40mm STM as well, if I can see more examples that would justify it's use. The Samyang 35mm would be next if the 40 doesn't seem useful.

 

[MileCreations]

That's a very good point, I wouldn't want to wish I had better image quality in some footage that I use at a later date or etc, I'm not completely aware of the benefits of higher FPS other than the obvious but lacking a better image resolution when I might want it later would be silly, as I can always size down in edit but not up (right?)

Right. Main benefit of a higher frame rate is that you can pull off slightly better slow motion. But really only a little because its not like 120fps or faster even like why you see in some amazing Rd slow motion.

I think I'd personally still get the kit lenses, you can still do a lot with them with practice, and it helps to already have a lens that can zoom. I guess that all depends on your budget

 

[brunerww]

Hi Joe, if you want a Canon, you have gotten some good advice here. For what it's worth , here is a short test I did of the £524 T4i/650D's touchscreen autofocus function using the £171 40mm STM "pancake" lens. Good touchscreen sensitivity (much better than my Panasonic GH2). Fairly quiet autofocus motor (but not as good as Panasonic video optimized lenses). Please watch in 1080p :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-V3KhH_GI

Unlike most shooters here, I use video autofocus a lot, so I wouldn't buy a camera without it.

Also, please note the "moire" in the green screen background (patterns in the fabric created by the camera). This is a problem for Canons. This problem is absent from the same test shot with my Panasonic GH2. Again, please watch in 1080p:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWHom1WjgWE

I have shot with both the T2i/550D and the T4i/650D and, for me, the T4i/650D is a lot easier to use due to its more modern features. If you get the 650D, your first lens should be the 40mm f2.8 STM pancake. It is a good-value-for money prime lens with relatively quiet autofocus.

Cheers and good luck with your decision,

Bill

 

[MileCreations]

Hi Joe, if you want a Canon, you have gotten some good advice here. For what it's worth , here is a short test I did of the £524 T4i/650D's touchscreen autofocus function using the £171 40mm STM "pancake" lens. Good touchscreen sensitivity (much better than my Panasonic GH2). Fairly quiet autofocus motor (but not as good as Panasonic video optimized lenses). Please watch in 1080p :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-V3KhH_GI

This is what I don't like. Because it's an SLR you'll probably be shooting with external audio but if you're not then you are screwed as you can hear in this video.

If you don't trust your eye for judgment it is quite easy to switch the 600D or 550D to auto on the lens then hold the phot capture button half down which will focus for you. The only thing is the 650D focuses WHILE recording, so would only be good if you were getting closer or further away from an object. I would like to see tests of this

 

[8salacious9]

do not autofocus your videos, if you do, then dont bother calling yourself a wannabe filmmaker, learn how to manually focus, auto-focus is for photography, ask any professional filmmaker, do you auto-focus? its like asking the pope if hes muslim.

 

[TheArtist]

The pope is actually Muslim, literally speaking.

For Canon, go for the T3i.

 

[8salacious9]

The pope is actually Muslim, literally speaking.