What do you filmmakers prefer?

H

harmonica44

I have been experimenting with cutting takes in a scene. In a movie, when you watch two people talk to each other from across a desk, let's say... The camera will be on one guy's face, while he's talking, then the other guy, when he is talking. Sometimes though the camera will be on the guy who is not talking and show him listening.

Do you guys find it's best to film both sides of the conversation entirely? Put the camera one guy while the other guy is speaking? Just filming both guys listening without talking, then decide after which scenes of listening only, are best to splice into the cutting? Or do you guys think it's best to come up with a shot list beforehand and decide exactly when in the dialogue, the camera will be on the person listening?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Yeah, The Hurt Locker looks a lot more like film, compared to other digitally shot movies, that go back to film, like say Public Enemies, unless they projected that one from a datacard, through the projector, at the theater.
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Printing digitally shot films onto film is not an attempt to get the look/quality of actual film, it is simply a way of projecting it. The majority of projectors (although this is likely to change in the next year or so) are film rather than digital projectors.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Yeah, The Hurt Locker looks a lot more like film, compared to other digitally shot movies.
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Film negative format (mm/video inches)
16 mm (Fuji Eterna 250D 8663, Eterna 500T 8673)
Video (HDTV)

Cinematographic process
Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format)
HDCAM SR (source format) (high-speed shots)
Super 16 (source format)

Printed film format
35 mm (Fuji Eterna-CP 3513DI)

Aspect ratio
1.85 : 1
 
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indietalk said:
Film negative format (mm/video inches)
16 mm (Fuji Eterna 250D 8663, Eterna 500T 8673)
Video (HDTV)

Cinematographic process
Digital Intermediate (2K) (master format)
HDCAM SR (source format) (high-speed shots)
Super 16 (source format)

Printed film format
35 mm (Fuji Eterna-CP 3513DI)

Aspect ratio
1.85 : 1
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I see. So why don't directors put their shots in shooting scripts then? How do they know who's face they want the camera on in a conversation at what time of the dialogue, if they don't put type in their shots beforehand? I am only going by shooting scripts I've read though.
 
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harmonica44 said:
I see. So why don't directors put their shots in shooting scripts then? How do they know who's face they want the camera on in a conversation at what time of the dialogue, if they don't put type in their shots beforehand? I am only going by shooting scripts I've read though.
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Because adding direction like that to a script makes it cluttered and harder to understand, and because decisions like that are often saved until editing.
 
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But how do they know what they want, if they wait till the editing stage? What if the director said, "okay I want the camera to be on this guy, while this other guy is talking". And then he finds out he has no more footage of that guy, just listening. How do they avoid that, if they wait till post to decide?
 
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@harmonica44

Directors try an imagine all the shots, and create a shot list, however, for interest of safety, time, etc, a technique called "coverage" is often employed. Simply stated, for most shots you get a set of typical angels that you know can be cut many ways and work.

For a dialogue you might do:
  • Master shot, the camera sees both actors the whole time
  • OTS (Over The Shoulder) from A to B
  • OTS from B to A
  • Cutaways of hands, ECU of eyes, ash trays etc..



In editing you can decide how to mix these shots up..

Rules like the "180 degree rule" help keep things "limited" during shooting so you KNOW that the above list of angles will work together without continuity issues.

Sounds a bit boring, but there is an infinity of creative ways to cut a dialogue scene with just those shots.
 
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So you're saying to get a lot of random angle shots to use later then as well as the planned shots, and mix it in, when it works well? So what does a shot list look like, since a lot of shots aren't in shooting scripts?
 
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harmonica44 said:
But how do they know what they want, if they wait till the editing stage? What if the director said, "okay I want the camera to be on this guy, while this other guy is talking". And then he finds out he has no more footage of that guy, just listening. How do they avoid that, if they wait till post to decide?
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It should be in your head. The director has the vision. Make your first film and you will find your style and what you need.
 
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You ask a lot of questions that can be answered by making a short film, and another short film, etc. The best way to learn is to do. Your assignment is to make a short film this weekend. :D Doesn't have to be serious, take a public domain work and make it with some friends, edit it, and you'll start getting the hang of things.
 
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sorry dont mean hijack this thread but how do you edit the audios in an editing software with what harmonica explained in the first post. do you have to cut the audio and try to match it up or is there an easier way?
 
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Ash93 said:
sorry dont mean hijack this thread but how do you edit the audios in an editing software with what harmonica explained in the first post. do you have to cut the audio and try to match it up or is there an easier way?
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The audio track should be able to be "de-linked" from the video track allowing the audio to be laid into one continuous sequence, often with background audio and sound FX layered in.
Meanwhile, the video can be crazy-quilted in any ol' personal preference.

Example of bad editing:
Parent drones on and on about the dangers of drugs and sex to teen, camera stays on parent for entire monologue. Shot switches to kid for rebuttal or inquiry. Back to parent for clarrification of previous statement.
Parent + Teen + Parent = boring as a minister's rubber wrapper.

Example of good editing:
Parent drones on and on about the dangers of drugs and sex to teen, camera follows parent until after first big point made. Shot switches to teen's puzzled reaction as parent moves onto second point, camera goes back to parent's hand gesticulations, switch to kid grinning. Camera back on parent for wrap up before shot switches to kid for rebuttal or inquiry, camera close up on parent's grimace + understanding, then back to teen. Back to parent for clarrification of previous statement, then back to teen as he/she nods.

Parent + Teen + Parent + Teen + Parent + Teen + Parent + Teen + Parent + Teen + Parent + Teen = communicates a broader emotional range an attention deficit viewership won't doze off to.

Audio track plays/times the same for both.


I've cut the audio first and synched video to it second. Conversations have a natural flow to them visuals ought not be buggering with, IMHO.
 
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indietalk said:
You ask a lot of questions that can be answered by making a short film, and another short film, etc. The best way to learn is to do. Your assignment is to make a short film this weekend. :D Doesn't have to be serious, take a public domain work and make it with some friends, edit it, and you'll start getting the hang of things.
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I made one, and will make another one. I will post it once the editing equipment I ordered comes in and I can finish it. So far I've learned it's best to have a written shot list beforehand and shoot whatever extra takes you need, after watching the film on a portable laptop, which you should bring while shooting, to review the footage, before leaving the set.
 
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