First of all, hello! I'm new here. Let's get right to the point! I spent the summer with my cousins in the Bronx. Cursing is part of their vocabulary. They use it as humor also, which gave me an idea for a screenplay. Now..., do I stay true to the character, or is cursing frowned upon. Also, slang. How is that taken.
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Using curse words
- Thread starter dorio
- Start date
I assume this was done purposefully, within lines of dialogue?
In lines of action, this should not be done. Technically, these words do not exist in the English language (although they are found in the OED, they are referenced as being the pronunciation of their construct) - they should read got to, going to, could have (could’ve), should have (should’ve). Your lines of action (or anything written in ‘proper’ English) should be spelled correctly and constructed using the correct grammar.
As far as dialogue goes, using those words is acceptable (somebody please correct me if I’m wrong!). I do this all the time. Same as swearing, it’s about giving your character a voice, making them sound real. I use ‘gotta’ and ‘gonna’ a lot within dialogue.
Just opened the screenplay I’m currently working on; on the first page alone I’ve used ‘gotta’, ‘dunno’, ‘watchin’’, ‘ain’t’, ‘nothin’’ and ‘borin’’. Perhaps I’m wrong to do this? Perhaps these words should be written correctly, to allow a director or actor to make up his/her mind as to how the line should be spoken? Truthfully, I’m unsure on this. Can somebody else clarify?
Bingo!
You're right on it.
Unless... you wanna juss write WeTH you want and then pay someone else to proofread and correct what you could have done yourself.
I guess it's a personal process sort of thing for some.
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That's a good question for all of IT. Anyone sold a script? Please share your story.
Sorry, I don't have one.
Sorry, I don't have one.
Maralyn,
Let's just start by saying it's not my intention to be unreasonably contentious. In general, it's better not to find yourself in a position where you're trying to prove points with someone. Maybe Ray has sold scripts, maybe he hasn't. I wouldn't accept everything he says even if he had sold a script. Even if somebody sold a script, maybe I like different types of scripts. So his experience may not even apply to me. The point is, everybody here, including myself, have opinions. We believe in them so much, we act on them. So when we write about them, they might seem like we think they're facts.
It's up to the rest of us to decide whether we agree with them or not. I disagree with most things I hear from filmmakers. I disagree with my own self from a year ago. It's all part of being an independent filmmaker.
The list of things I disagree with, with filmmakers, I can write a book about. But that's good. We should all disagree. If we all agreed that we knew what we were doing, and then we've all agreed on failed strategies. So it's a good thing to disagree.
Cheers
Aveek
In my humble opinion asking "do you have any experience at selling scripts?" is not inappropriate. If you asked me "Have you sold a script or movie?" I would answer no. It's interesting to hear what experiences others have. If you give advice or even opinion it's perfectly valid for someone to ask about your past experiences. Just my opinion 
Maralyn,
Let's just start by saying it's not my intention to be unreasonably contentious. In general, it's better not to find yourself in a position where you're trying to prove points with someone. Maybe Ray has sold scripts, maybe he hasn't. I wouldn't accept everything he says even if he had sold a script. Even if somebody sold a script, maybe I like different types of scripts. So his experience may not even apply to me. The point is, everybody here, including myself, have opinions. We believe in them so much, we act on them. So when we write about them, they might seem like we think they're facts.
It's up to the rest of us to decide whether we agree with them or not. I disagree with most things I hear from filmmakers. I disagree with my own self from a year ago. It's all part of being an independent filmmaker.
The list of things I disagree with, with filmmakers, I can write a book about. But that's good. We should all disagree. If we all agreed that we knew what we were doing, and then we've all agreed on failed strategies. So it's a good thing to disagree.
Cheers
Aveek
There are more spec scripts written by Tom, Dick, and Harry then subsequently ignored by studios every year than there are feature films made by independent filmmakers that get no distribution.
In my research on how to write and construct a spec screenplay I noted how many films were written by established industry insiders and by those who knew someone already in the biz.
An exclusionary club, a cadre, nepotism, whathaveyou, it shouldn't be surprising - go with what you know, don't waste time looking for "the best".
It's all a crapshoot anyway in this industry.
Furthermore, I went and researched the beginnings of many many many screenwriters.
Most started out with little weenie projects.
Additionally I consistently noted the high frequency of writer directors there were for distributed films.
(If you can't get distribution... what's the point? Art for art's sake? Pfft. Yeah. Grow up).
So I went hunting for independent film sites and found IT with the intent & goal of learning the mechanics of HOW to get a film made and distributed myself because there's even less of a chance of selling a spec screenplay.
700 to 800 MPAA rated films annually
+ 500 to 600 non-MPAA rated films annually
Page 13 - http://www.mpaa.org/Resources/93bbeb16-0e4d-4b7e-b085-3f41c459f9ac.pdf
"There are an estimated 4,000 - 5,000 independent films made every single year. Here's the unfortunate truth: Less than 5% of all these movies end up with distribution."
http://www.distribution.la/
Probably not the most reliable source of intel, but it doesn't sound like complete BS.
Maybe this'll be better...
"Only about 40 of the 3,812 finished films that were submitted to Sundance this year will get any kind of distribution at all. That’s slightly over one percent. The other 98% you will never get to see – not even on Netflix."
http://www.culturalweekly.com/indie-films-state-of-the-union.html
Looks somewhat more credible.
And considering that not every indie film gets submitted to Sundance (on a lark) their 3,812 number suggests the previous distribution.la numbers were low balling the total number.
I bet it's closer to 8,000, give or take a thousand. Or two.
Lettuce move onto spec screenplays...
"I often see the figure that 40,000 (or more) scripts are written each year... " (2004 figure)
http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-7081.html
"According to the Writer's Guild of America, 55,000 pieces of literary material are registered annually, 30,00 of which are screenplays."
http://www.screenwritingtostandard.com/
(Ahem. This page specifically cites adhering to industry standards of spec screenplay formatting - as opposed to do whatever you want, standards be damned. But of course this is being presented by oppressive formatting zealots, I'm sure).
"An old adage in Hollywood is that in spite of the hundreds of thousands of rejected scripts every year, a good script will find an audience. Format properly, be professional, and write a killer script, and your chances are maximized for success."
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-spec-script.htm
Perhaps a little melodramatic, but point made - it's more than a few thousand.
Certainly more than the number of never-to-be-seen feature films made.
A LOT more.
If you want to get into the film industry to sell screenplays - the easiest route is be a writer/directer for the sole reason just to get a toehold in the film business.
People are MORE interested in your film than in your screenplay(s).
This is a industry built on networking and relationships - MUCH MORE - than producing a fine product.
Four monkeys that can get a chimp eating a banana on film will do better than a genius pounding out PC/Mac thespian gold.
No.
I haven't sold a thing.
Maralyn -
How many have you bought, produced, and had distributed by a third party?
BTW...
That was tongue in cheek humor, Maralyn.
I was giving you a back door to escape from.
And I'm not even irrirated by this quixotic quest.
Been there. Done that. Not even interested in the T-shirt.
Use proper grammar in your action lines.
Do WeTH you want in the dialog.
Argue w/ me. Don't argue w/ me. Whatever.
In my research on how to write and construct a spec screenplay I noted how many films were written by established industry insiders and by those who knew someone already in the biz.
An exclusionary club, a cadre, nepotism, whathaveyou, it shouldn't be surprising - go with what you know, don't waste time looking for "the best".
It's all a crapshoot anyway in this industry.
Furthermore, I went and researched the beginnings of many many many screenwriters.
Most started out with little weenie projects.
Additionally I consistently noted the high frequency of writer directors there were for distributed films.
(If you can't get distribution... what's the point? Art for art's sake? Pfft. Yeah. Grow up).
So I went hunting for independent film sites and found IT with the intent & goal of learning the mechanics of HOW to get a film made and distributed myself because there's even less of a chance of selling a spec screenplay.
700 to 800 MPAA rated films annually
+ 500 to 600 non-MPAA rated films annually
Page 13 - http://www.mpaa.org/Resources/93bbeb16-0e4d-4b7e-b085-3f41c459f9ac.pdf
"There are an estimated 4,000 - 5,000 independent films made every single year. Here's the unfortunate truth: Less than 5% of all these movies end up with distribution."
http://www.distribution.la/
Probably not the most reliable source of intel, but it doesn't sound like complete BS.
Maybe this'll be better...
"Only about 40 of the 3,812 finished films that were submitted to Sundance this year will get any kind of distribution at all. That’s slightly over one percent. The other 98% you will never get to see – not even on Netflix."
http://www.culturalweekly.com/indie-films-state-of-the-union.html
Looks somewhat more credible.
And considering that not every indie film gets submitted to Sundance (on a lark) their 3,812 number suggests the previous distribution.la numbers were low balling the total number.
I bet it's closer to 8,000, give or take a thousand. Or two.
Lettuce move onto spec screenplays...
"I often see the figure that 40,000 (or more) scripts are written each year... " (2004 figure)
http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-7081.html
"According to the Writer's Guild of America, 55,000 pieces of literary material are registered annually, 30,00 of which are screenplays."
http://www.screenwritingtostandard.com/
(Ahem. This page specifically cites adhering to industry standards of spec screenplay formatting - as opposed to do whatever you want, standards be damned. But of course this is being presented by oppressive formatting zealots, I'm sure).
"An old adage in Hollywood is that in spite of the hundreds of thousands of rejected scripts every year, a good script will find an audience. Format properly, be professional, and write a killer script, and your chances are maximized for success."
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-spec-script.htm
Perhaps a little melodramatic, but point made - it's more than a few thousand.
Certainly more than the number of never-to-be-seen feature films made.
A LOT more.
If you want to get into the film industry to sell screenplays - the easiest route is be a writer/directer for the sole reason just to get a toehold in the film business.
People are MORE interested in your film than in your screenplay(s).
This is a industry built on networking and relationships - MUCH MORE - than producing a fine product.
Four monkeys that can get a chimp eating a banana on film will do better than a genius pounding out PC/Mac thespian gold.
No.
I haven't sold a thing.
Maralyn -
How many have you bought, produced, and had distributed by a third party?
BTW...
IMHOpine, but of course.
That was tongue in cheek humor, Maralyn.
I was giving you a back door to escape from.
And I'm not even irrirated by this quixotic quest.
Been there. Done that. Not even interested in the T-shirt.
Use proper grammar in your action lines.
Do WeTH you want in the dialog.
Argue w/ me. Don't argue w/ me. Whatever.
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I think this sums up the rules of script writing very well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvxl9KtgKXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvxl9KtgKXE
In my humble opinion asking "do you have any experience at selling scripts?" is not inappropriate. If you asked me "Have you sold a script or movie?" I would answer no. It's interesting to hear what experiences others have. If you give advice or even opinion it's perfectly valid for someone to ask about your past experiences. Just my opinion
You're absolutely right my friend. No argument from me. But the nature of surrounding yourself with independent filmmakers is that you'll find that everybody has an opinion that is not necessarily based on experience. Sometimes those opinions don't hold water, and sometimes they're valid even if they are not based on experience.
I'll give you a small example of what this discussion reminds me of:
in a film class the professor, who was known for one documentary that he was part of, said things I hear here all the time, namely that film is a "visual" medium, and therefore... thus and so (By the way, I'm beginning to believe that it is a 60% audio/aural medium). He went on to say that therefore voice over was a crutch used by second rate filmmakers who didn't have the ability to tell the story visually. Now I happen to like Martin Scorsese a lot. And Goodfellas is my favorite film of all time. So when this professor said that, I wondered what the fuck he was talking about. I could have said to him, "tell that to scorsese," or "what story have you told that's so amazing.?" Instead I decided not to pay further attention to this "schnuck" (a term I learned in goodfellas). I wrote my final paper on how voiceover was the greatest tool a filmmaker had at his disposal who was trying to tell a complex story in a limited amount of time.
My point is, follow your own instincts no matter what anybody says. You definitely don't have to agree. I would have disagreed with that professor on voiceover even if he had sold five films. That's not necessarily the point, is what I'm saying. The other thing is that while you may not agree with Ray in this instance, even if he sold a script shouldn't mean you should automatically agree.
Anyway
... my point is that most people here are trying to help. And Ray is extremely helpful, if you're researching something. He'll give you 10 links, you've not seen anywhere else, especially if it involves visual images that you cannot look at a second time.Cheers,
Aveek
Bingo.
Agree.
Don't agree.
Do what makes sense to you.
Experience doesn't mean omnipotent wisdom.
No experience doesn't mean omnipotent ignorance.
No experience doesn't mean omnipotent ignorance.
I've never been shot or run over by a train.
But I've seen a few of these idiots in person and it doesn't look like something I'm interested in.
However, if someone were to ask me "Have YOU ever been shot or run over by a train? Well, have YOU!" implying that I'm full of baloney to suggest to others "Don't get shot or run over by a train" - well...
I can go scrounge up a few NSFW pictures, let anyone take a gander, and see if those that object want me to come by and pop a cap in dey asterisk an' toss 'em over the bridge onto the RR track.
Toot! Toot!
Cheers, Aveek!
(PS, I saw a video the other day of some poor police officer that had been torn in half in a vehicle collision. He was still alive, laying in the street, arms slowly exploring WTH had happened as his head bobbed around, people standing around pointing and gossiping, basically not knowing WTH to do. Horrifying).
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Well, but the thing is, some people may be taking your advice on board. And I believe you're sending them off track. I think you're doing damage, possibly even ruining them as writers.
What you feel you have learned from other people's experience is just that.
But you are claiming authority over other writers freedoms. You are telling them how they MUST write, and how they MUST think, but you are forcing theories down their throats that haven't worked for you, and in such persistent quantities.
You're not hearing yourself, rayw. And you simply refuse to consider the possibility that your advice may be wrong. In fact the suggestion causes you to take offense.
Developing writers are delicate. They are easily poisoned, trampled, and led astray.
And yes, I have had some success as an indie screenwriter.
My graduating film school film won an award at festival, and from there was picked up to be part of a collection of short films and screened internationally. Remarkably, it got some cult status in Europe.
And that opened a lot of doors.
Then I got Film Commission script development budgets, three all up. And one of those scripts was referred to a much loved indie director, so that's how one script was placed.
I found a home for another script just by querying.
The thing is, I speak from my own experience, not of my analysis of the experiences of others. I find it disturbing that you can't see the difference.
What you feel you have learned from other people's experience is just that.
But you are claiming authority over other writers freedoms. You are telling them how they MUST write, and how they MUST think, but you are forcing theories down their throats that haven't worked for you, and in such persistent quantities.
You're not hearing yourself, rayw. And you simply refuse to consider the possibility that your advice may be wrong. In fact the suggestion causes you to take offense.
Developing writers are delicate. They are easily poisoned, trampled, and led astray.
And yes, I have had some success as an indie screenwriter.
My graduating film school film won an award at festival, and from there was picked up to be part of a collection of short films and screened internationally. Remarkably, it got some cult status in Europe.
And that opened a lot of doors.
Then I got Film Commission script development budgets, three all up. And one of those scripts was referred to a much loved indie director, so that's how one script was placed.
I found a home for another script just by querying.
The thing is, I speak from my own experience, not of my analysis of the experiences of others. I find it disturbing that you can't see the difference.
Really?
By saying a writer should use proper grammer in the action
lines of a script that is sending a writer off track? And even
ruining them as writer? Proper grammar can ruin a writer?
Here is the quote:
And you did not use proper grammar in the action lines of this
script?
So this is "fact" and not opinion. So you never use proper grammar in
the action lines of any of your script? After all it is a fact that good
screenwriting is dependent on not adhering to grammatical rules.
So proper spelling is not only not important, it is a rue that could
ruin screenwriters?
The formating rules (not structure - format) are not only not
important, they can ruin writers?
You didn't answer my other questions so I suspect you will not
answer this one, but I'm going to ask: Did you follow the rules
of format (sluglines, action paragraphs, dialogue placement) as
an indie screenwriter?
I'm curious as to what you mean by this. No disrespect intended; you seem to be doing pretty well and that's awesome. I'm not sure I quite get your philosophy though.
Say I was doing music for your film. I gave you drafts that were horribly out of tune, and stuck to no structural conventions. Could it be good? Maybe (Jandek's made a career out of it). But you liking it would be the exception rather than the rule.
Can you write a good screenplay in crayon on napkins in txt spk? Sure thing. But what are the odds that a total stranger is going to read it, let alone want to produce it. If someone is just starting, wouldn't it make sense to learn the "rules" to increase the odds someone will want to read it, rather than having to reinvent the wheel every time?
Again, interested in your perspective. My personal philosophy is that you can learn something from everyone, regardless of relative skill or knowledge, if you are open to it.
two points:
@rayw: I think the insider/exclusivity within the industry has more to do with reducing financial risk than anything else from a purchasing/investment standpoint... and known successful commodities are generally safer than unknowns.
@trueindie: Having put out a call for scripts once upon a time, I've read ALOT of scripts... 99% of them are completely horridly written, good story or not, they would have taken more time to turn into a produceable script (able to present to a DP, Actors, Investors, Location Owners, Draw up a schedule from, etc...) than it would take to actually produce. If I weren't a microbudget filmmaker, I'd be spending someone else's money to do that, and that's a piss poor use of funds when there are slightly less good stories that are immediately produceable.
Key indicators for me that a script is literally not worth my time slogging through (won't even go 2 pages on it)... corny bad VO at the open, bad grammar that doesn't fit the setting/characters, and bad format... and I can't afford to be too picky at my current budget levels, but working through 100+ scripts was painful. I ended up spending months working with a writer trying to get a script produceable only to have it pulled as "unchangeable" and "perfect as is" I welcomed him to use my 6 months of work for free to change what he needed but that we were no longer interested in working with him on this project.
There's so much that is not "art" in this craft that seems to be ignored by writers who are starting out and wondering why no one's looking at their work. Attempts to help are often met with anger at the criticism. I think there's a huge difference between a writer director who is forced to work with others... and a single writer in a room thinking their effort will be received as brilliant by everyone who reads it as they are after living with it for so long (hopefully through a ton of revisions/edits).
My personal experience is that this is not the case with beginning script writers.
@rayw: I think the insider/exclusivity within the industry has more to do with reducing financial risk than anything else from a purchasing/investment standpoint... and known successful commodities are generally safer than unknowns.
@trueindie: Having put out a call for scripts once upon a time, I've read ALOT of scripts... 99% of them are completely horridly written, good story or not, they would have taken more time to turn into a produceable script (able to present to a DP, Actors, Investors, Location Owners, Draw up a schedule from, etc...) than it would take to actually produce. If I weren't a microbudget filmmaker, I'd be spending someone else's money to do that, and that's a piss poor use of funds when there are slightly less good stories that are immediately produceable.
Key indicators for me that a script is literally not worth my time slogging through (won't even go 2 pages on it)... corny bad VO at the open, bad grammar that doesn't fit the setting/characters, and bad format... and I can't afford to be too picky at my current budget levels, but working through 100+ scripts was painful. I ended up spending months working with a writer trying to get a script produceable only to have it pulled as "unchangeable" and "perfect as is" I welcomed him to use my 6 months of work for free to change what he needed but that we were no longer interested in working with him on this project.
There's so much that is not "art" in this craft that seems to be ignored by writers who are starting out and wondering why no one's looking at their work. Attempts to help are often met with anger at the criticism. I think there's a huge difference between a writer director who is forced to work with others... and a single writer in a room thinking their effort will be received as brilliant by everyone who reads it as they are after living with it for so long (hopefully through a ton of revisions/edits).
My personal experience is that this is not the case with beginning script writers.
Since maralyn won’t engage in a discussion I’ll ask you,
trueindie.
If a screenplay isn’t about words what is a screenplay? I have
always felt the screenplay is how the writer communicates their
ideas to the actors, director, producer, composer, editor and
everyone involved in making a movie. Even if that movie is being
made as a true indie with only three or four people. And they way
the screenwriter expresses those ideas and dialogue and story is
through words.
So what is a screenplay to you?
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I don't know about 'right' or 'wrong,' but check out the libretto of Oklahoma! It's written in a southern dialect.