Ultra Right-Wing Christian Films!

I'm bringing a topic to the table that's pretty important. Understandably, you probably entered this discussion because you are quite annoyed at what the Christian right wing does. You probably hate all the hypocritical crap that religious people do...saying not to do one thing and then doing the 'sin' themselves...and how they blame all the evil in this world on the anti-Christ that is composed of homosexuals, Hollywood, and Democrats. Ticked off?

Me too, and I even grew up in the church.

And I still go to church. On my own.

Unfortunately, Republican agenda (specifically, the link with GWB) and other stupid actions have completely skewed what true Christianity is about. It's perceived as this go-to-church-or-go-to-hell message that is SO WRONG. The Bible says that Jesus is really about love, compassion, forgiveness, and sacrifice...and the ONE purpose of a Christian is to surrender his life to those teachings.

But it's instead perceived as a kitschy group of bellyaching, hypocritical, fire-and-brimstone churches that serve to suck in emotionally depraved people. Then they can be drained of their money to lift child molesting pastors into the stratosphere of economic prosperity.

This really hurts me because I have a personal relationship with God (which is the heart of true, honest, Biblical Christianity), and it is so different than what most of the world thinks. I want to change that perspective...to heal our image...but I'm trying to figure out how to do it without setting off people's "religion propaganda" alarms. I find there are a few things that often tick people off about Christian messages in films.

1) They come up from behind and rape you with no warning, leaving the audience feeling cheated.
2) They don't take into account authentic human emotions and aren't relevant to people.
3) They PREACH. Do people really preach to each other in life?!
4) The stories in these films SUCK or are BORING!
5) The style of the film is so "inspirational" (ie cheesy in a bad way) that they make you make you want to watch a soft core horror flick just to balance out the queasy feeling you get inside.
6) They're about the end times (puh-leez that's not what the Bible's about!)
7) They threaten you with the go-to-church-or-go-to-hell message
8) No humor...at all... Isn't most of life here on earth a joke anyway? (this statement actually agrees with the Bible, believe it or not)

I show my faith in my films, as it is. Jesus Christ is so very special to me, in that following him has completely changed my life. Why wouldn't I want to tell the world about it? Isn't art a form of self-expression? If I didn't put a strong element of change through faith in my characters, I would deny the very core of my existence. My art would become cheap.

I'm trying to make films that are able to authentically express what I feel about faith, but a lot of people in the independent film community seem so hair-triggered to anything that even smells of Christianity. How do I portray my personal faith without getting snickered into a hole of being a right-winger? My goal is not to preach or get people 'converted.' I only want to show a perspective on life that is sorely missed by a great deal of humanity. Isn't that what films are supposed to do? To provide new experiences that you've never had... to realize authentically what goes on in peoples' lives other than your own...

I just watched "Pieces of April." That's probably closer to the Christian faith than many elements of the Passion of the Christ IMO.
 
I just watched "Pieces of April." That's probably closer to the Christian faith than many elements of the Passion of the Christ IMO.

I think you bring up an interesting point here that is missed by the right-wing Christians who constantly bellyache about Hollywood. For all their whining, the fact is that most Hollywood films that portray religion at all do so relatively positively; certainly spirituality is looked on quite favorably.

That's largely missed by the political religious right because a) they are looking for their particular "brand" of Christianity, which is often ignored or portrayed (rightly, IMO) as hypocritical and judgemental and b) they like to play the persecution card at every opportunity.

I think the problem with the films they make to cater to the market they argue is neglected by Hollywood is two fold: First, I think that the talent needed to make a good movie is simply not drawn to that market for the most part. There are exceptions, of course, but not many. Mel Gibson would be one of them, although while the Jesus Chainsaw Massacre appealed to right-wing Christians, it wasn't particularly directed at that audience in terms of message. The other reason is that films directed at that audience does, by its nature, carry a very specific message. And since that message is religious, the content leans toward the preachy.

I would say that if you want to make films that express your religion, there are ways to do it that don't seem preachy. I think "Saved" is a good recent example that deals with the negative political issues you discuss but ultimately portrays Christianity and Christians in a positive light.
 
give it a rest...

I lean to the right politically and I believe in Jesus Christ but I don't believe in organized religion of any kind...

I should add that organized religion of all faiths have both left and right wing believers as well as many other politically different beliefs...

I think I will go through your list one by one but ultimately, I wish you would have simply asked the question you ask without bringing your personal political views into it. LOL.

Burnt Scroll said:
Understandably, you probably entered this discussion because you are quite annoyed at what the Christian right wing does.

Christian right wing? LOL. What about the Christian left wing? No, I did not get into this thread because I am annoyed... I'm annoyed by a lot of crap out there... Organized religion being one of them but hey... It's a free country, right? Who cares? Live and let live...

Burnt Scroll said:
You probably hate all the hypocritical crap that religious people do...saying not to do one thing and then doing the 'sin' themselves...and how they blame all the evil in this world on the anti-Christ that is composed of homosexuals, Hollywood, and Democrats. Ticked off?

Hate is actually a little extreme... I will stick with being annoyed at organized religion but truthfully, I really don't listen to people who preach to me anyway... At 47, you tend to have lived enough life to believe in what you believe and fuck everyone else... Notice I did not agree with the right wing part of this thread and simply reiterated religious people... Additionally, I don't hate religious people either... I don't hate anyone but my ex-wife... LOL. Religious people have the right to their own opinion, correct? I know plenty of people that are right wing and Christian who do not condemn homosexuals, Hollywood, or Democrats but to be honest, most democrats I know seem to always bad mouth right wing believers... That could just be my own impression of course as I have no scientific data to back it up. But rather than get into a political debate, who really cares what sins people carry out? You can't stop it. As soon as one person stops sinning (that will rarely ever even happen), there are thousands of others right behind him or her to take up the slack... We are human... Flesh and blood. We were built to SIN. LOL. So am I ticked off? Nope. Not about your subject matter anyway... I'm more ticked off about the current state of affairs with studio film product than I am about any organized religion member preaching to the choir... LOL.

Burnt Scroll said:
Unfortunately, Republican agenda (specifically, the link with GWB) and other stupid actions have completely skewed what true Christianity is about. It's perceived as this go-to-church-or-go-to-hell message that is SO WRONG.

Say what? Hmmm. I read a lot of news every day and I listen to the news all the time and I've never once got that impression... LOL. Having said that... I always hear the left stating exactly what you say in your post that I just quoted... Are you sure you're not just reiterating something you've heard? Nobody in the Republican party has ever once told me that I had to go to church... In fact, nobody in my entire LIFE has told me I have to go to church... LOL. I guess I'm out of the loop... LOL. But to take your stance a little further... I have never once heard a republican, democrat, right or left winger, Christian (left or right) tell anyone they were IN FACT going to HELL. Where do you get your information? What newspaper was that article in? What magazine? What television show? LOL. I feel cheated.

Burnt Scroll said:
The Bible says that Jesus is really about love, compassion, forgiveness, and sacrifice...and the ONE purpose of a Christian is to surrender his life to those teachings.

Does the bible really say that? Or, is it open to interpretation? I have read the bible three times and I use the Strongs Concordance to translate it and I don't really think it says all that... That sounds like something an organized religion would teach its followers... LOL. I will admit that Jesus did a lot of that in the bible... But for you to tell us that the ONE purpose of a Christian is to surrender his or her life to those teachings is ridiculous... If you want to do that, great... No problem but don't give us Christian lessons... I would rather talk about filmmaking and screenwriting if you don't mind.

Burnt Scroll said:
But it's instead perceived as a kitschy group of bellyaching, hypocritical, fire-and-brimstone churches that serve to suck in emotionally depraved people. Then they can be drained of their money to lift child molesting pastors into the stratosphere of economic prosperity.

Only to the extreme left... LOL. What about all the Christian democrats out there? Geez... There are thousands of fire and brimstone churches out there that do exactly what you say... Are you trying to tell us that the republican party is behind all this? LOL. I've been to churches where the pastor was the one that made the rules... The one that interpreted the bible for his followers... Notice I say his followers and not the church's followers because that's pretty much how it is with these kinds of churches... But that is not the Christian way or whatever... Christians simply believe in Jesus Christ. No more -- no less. We're always going to sin (according to the bible)... The best we can do is to try to sin less.

Burnt Scroll said:
This really hurts me because I have a personal relationship with God (which is the heart of true, honest, Biblical Christianity), and it is so different than what most of the world thinks. I want to change that perspective...to heal our image...but I'm trying to figure out how to do it without setting off people's "religion propaganda" alarms. I find there are a few things that often tick people off about Christian messages in films.

1) They come up from behind and rape you with no warning, leaving the audience feeling cheated.
2) They don't take into account authentic human emotions and aren't relevant to people.
3) They PREACH. Do people really preach to each other in life?!
4) The stories in these films SUCK or are BORING!
5) The style of the film is so "inspirational" (ie cheesy in a bad way) that they make you make you want to watch a soft core horror flick just to balance out the queasy feeling you get inside.
6) They're about the end times (puh-leez that's not what the Bible's about!)
7) They threaten you with the go-to-church-or-go-to-hell message
8) No humor...at all... Isn't most of life here on earth a joke anyway? (this statement actually agrees with the Bible, believe it or not)

I show my faith in my films, as it is. Jesus Christ is so very special to me, in that following him has completely changed my life. Why wouldn't I want to tell the world about it? Isn't art a form of self-expression? If I didn't put a strong element of change through faith in my characters, I would deny the very core of my existence. My art would become cheap.

First of all... Most of the world doesn't think that at all... Most of the world could give a shit so don't worry so much and go do your films the way you want... Do them your way... I guess you should do them the opposite of the way you see others doing them as you say in your post... Be true to your own vision and let the chips fall where they may...

You act like everyone has a problem with the way YOU want to make your films... We don't care! Just do it the way you want. Make yourself happy and hopefully, you'll make others happy with your vision... It sounds like you need to direct your tirade at whomever pissed you off... Not at us and not at the people with the labels... i.e., right wing christians... LOL.

Burnt Scroll said:
I'm trying to make films that are able to authentically express what I feel about faith, but a lot of people in the independent film community seem so hair-triggered to anything that even smells of Christianity. How do I portray my personal faith without getting snickered into a hole of being a right-winger? My goal is not to preach or get people 'converted.' I only want to show a perspective on life that is sorely missed by a great deal of humanity. Isn't that what films are supposed to do? To provide new experiences that you've never had... to realize authentically what goes on in peoples' lives other than your own...

Again, you are overstating your opinion/impression... You need to relax and make your own film the way you want. If you do it right, you will reach the people you want to reach... If you don't do it right, then you have to start over I guess... It's obvious from your post that you lean to the left... At least that's MY impression... So, I assume you'll end up making that clear in your films as well... LOL.

Burnt Scroll said:
3) They PREACH. Do people really preach to each other in life?!

You're kidding, right? Half the people I know preach to me in one way or another... It's all a matter of trying to persuade you to believe in what they're telling you no matter what the subject is... Yes! People do really preach to each other. Not all but a lot do.

Take your passion and get to work and don't worry about what the independent film community feels or thinks... I don't think Jesus cares so why should you?

Good luck with it,
filmy
 
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I'm not going to waste space reiterating what Filmy said, cause he's right on the money here.

All I would like to add is: when I feel the need to touch the godhead, I look at the stars.
 
FilmJumper, good post.

Me, I believe in the First Ammendment, the Replacements, and brick oven pizza.

Beyond that, everything is in doubt.
 
Hmm... you know, I've always found the term "personal relationship with God" somewhat amusing.. it's like... umm, can you have a personal relationship with someone you've never met?

But, hey, that's cool. More power to you. :) I mean no offense by this post.. just .. blah whatever. who cares. I'll sin enough for the both of us. ;)

Oh, yeah.. by the way, I agree with most of what Filmy said.
 
Will Vincent said:
I've always found the term "personal relationship with God" somewhat amusing.. it's like... umm, can you have a personal relationship with someone you've never met?


Will, I've met Tommy Stinson...does that allow me to have a personal relationship with the Replacements. I mean, it's not Westerberg...but I guess it would go: in the name of Paul, Tommy, Chris and Bob/Slim....so, he is the number two go-to guy?

Just wondering.

:)
 
....well, heck! a good rant never hurt anybody....well, anyway...

Billy Joel in "Only The Good Die Young" has a line where in talking to Virginia about her mother says: "she never cared for me, but did she ever say a prayer for me?" I kind of think that this is the problem with 'bible-thumpers' be they right or left wing. Who really cares which?

...I think that people sometimes tend to forget to take the good things from religion and dwell on the 'I'm right, you're wrong and YOU are going to hell part. You aren't supposed to be judgemental, but bible-thumpers are. You are supposed to be tolerant, but we know that the results of intolerance are why our globe is in turmoil.

...and I think that people sometimes forget that they are not perfection personified...

Look, if you want to have a particular spin on your filmatic endeavors, Scroll, that's cool. The first thing I would suggest is to WRITE A GOOD STORY. Just because you say everything you need to doesn't make the story good, and we all know that a good story will put people in the seats. Tell a crap story and it won't matter what your views are because no one will care or want to watch. (I haven't seen Saved yet, but I hear its great.)

...there are more than enough places to show a religious ideology. The Matrix (the first) did that well, but the other movies (2&3) got bogged down in CGI and inevitably lost the thread of the idea...

...what you write doesn't have to be overt. You want to make people think, not feel as though they are being preached to. Not that there is anything wrong with alittle preaching, every good discussion has this element. The trick is to recognize and accept that everyone is not going to see your point of view. That doesn't make them bad or spell out their impending hellbound doom. It just means that maybe there are other circumstances that should be considered.

...about the child molesters, you're pissed, I'm pissed, everyone should be pissed and the perpetraters regardless of who they are should be in prison. That's not judgemental, its the law and no one should get away with harming a child...

...Have you seen Dead Man Walking? Good film that to my mind has more to do with religion than the murderer it portrays so well...

...And before I get off of my soapbox, let me just conclude by saying, there's nothing in the bible that says we all have to be the same, or live the same, or behave in one homoginized fashion. It makes more sense to me to try to be a good person and be aware of how I am to other people. Its easier to say than to do, but the effort must count for something. (I won't apologize for being a new fan of Black Sabbath and I shouldn't have to :evil: ) but that has nothing to do with who I am or what I think of God or Jesus or anything really.

...pardon my rant, and my kind of getting off the subject. Discussions like this get me going and I think there should be more or 'em...

...oh, and can I get a 'amen' for good pizza :lol:

--spinner :cool:
 
YouAreAloneMOVIE said:
Will, I've met Tommy Stinson...does that allow me to have a personal relationship with the Replacements. I mean, it's not Westerberg...but I guess it would go: in the name of Paul, Tommy, Chris and Bob/Slim....so, he is the number two go-to guy?

Just wondering.

:)

Gorman...you forgot the guy who replaced Chris for the last tour. He should probably be listed after Slim...(if only I could remember his name) ;)

"One foot in the door...the other foot in the gutter"
 
John, I can't even count that other drummer. (Don't remember his name either.) If nothing else he proved what a great drummer Mars was. To see the band back in 82 (with Bob wearing a dress) vs. that last tour where they opened a lot for Elvis Costello...quite a difference.

Though I did like Slim. My favorite tour was the PTME tour.

Whenever I do book signings, and people always ask what writers have influenced me most. My answer: Westerberg and Costello.



http://www.gormanbechard.com
 
Nice trick going on here. The thread title makes you think that there's a film discussion going on, but once you look inside it's a rant about religion and politics.

We really strive to have a forum here that is void of the ideological traps that other forums fall into. If you want to discuss this topic further, I'd suggest utilizing the Personal Message feature.

Thread locked.

Poke
 
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Poke said:
Thread locked.

Poke

After much thought, and a few nudges from some members, I have decided to reopen this thread. Maybe locking it was a rash decision to begin with. I just want everyone to try to remain friendly towards the viewpoints of others. I see no reason why we can not discuss Christian themed films without resorting to bashing other member's religions or beliefs.

Thanks for the patience everyone.

Poke
 
Actually, I was a little surprised because I thought John and I had turned it into a discussion about the Replacements, which is a much more interesting and important topic.

I mean really...Paul Westerberg vs. Jesus Christ

No contest.

JC didn't write HERE COMES A REGULAR.

:)

And Goat to answer your question, a definite example is THE PASSION OF THE WESTERBERG, I mean, CHRIST...

Gibson's religious beliefs are frightening, to say the least. (And that I say without sarcasm...really, check into his beliefs, and the Catholic sect to which he belongs...scary crap!)
 
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Poke said:
After much thought, and a few nudges from some members, I have decided to reopen this thread. Maybe locking it was a rash decision to begin with. I just want everyone to try to remain friendly towards the viewpoints of others. I see no reason why we can not discuss Christian themed films without resorting to bashing other member's religions or beliefs.

Thanks for the patience everyone.

Poke

...were we bashing? I didn't feel I was... I think (I hope) we are grown up enough to have a discussion without anyone being unkind. My intention was to say that people should be alittle more tolerant and not force their belief on others and in that regard we can agree to disagree and all part with a bit more information about the other persons opinion. I think this is the only way to learn to become open to other people and other walks of life.

...and I reiterate that it won't matter what your beliefs are from religion to little green men, if your story is crap, nobody is going to care about what you put on film...

...and Poke, at least we know someone is making sure everyone is treated well on the boards... :)

--spinner :cool:
 
I think the movies that Burnt Scroll was speaking of is the kind you'd find at the local Christian Bookstore. A lot of them are porrly made with money donated by a church or churches. There are a few Christian themed Production companies, but they tend to stick to adaptations of best selling Christian themed books such as the "Left Behind" series. A lot of them are made solely for the purpose of being shown at church gatherings.

My opinion of this section of the movie universe is that there is a place for eveything under the sun. I do not particularly like some of the Christain movies I have seen, but I do not hold any anger of annoyance towards them. They set out to make a film with a purpose, I don't think any indie filmmaker should begrudge them simply because their ideals are different. Indie film is mainly about this very thing...making films that speak to us and not having our vision corrupted by other interests.

And blaming the ultra conservative movement on Bush is a weak argument. I was growing up in an ultra conservative environment about the same time Bush was trading Sammy Sosa, so he didn't start the fire.

Poke
 
Well, the ones from the 70's can be quite fun. Thief in the Night and it's sequels, If Footmen Tire You... What Will the Horses Do?, The Late Great Planet Earth... Aside from the last, starring Orson Welles, the rest have exceptional camp and violence, resembling a bottom-barrel grindhouse exploitation film. There was even a Christian slasher film called The Stormbringer (known more commonly by another title, but I can't remember what it is at the moment) where sinners aresliced and diced by a grim reaper character only to have the opprotunity to repent before the fires of hell, then credits roll by over a picture of a church steeple.

I've yet to see If Footmen Tire You?, but the review for it at brainsonfilm sounds simply insane! I keep meaning to track it down.
 
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