Ultra Right-Wing Christian Films!

Hmmm, after reading through this thread, it seems to me that a lot of you have had bad experiences with people who tried to jam their faith down your throats. In my experience, there are a great number of people who profess to be Christian, but whose actions clearly testify to the contrary. I would even suggest that the majority of people who claim to be Christian are in fact not, since the Biblical definition of a Christian would be a follower, or disciple of Jesus, yet many professing Chrtistians have not made Jesus Lord of their lives. Jesus' own claims offend many people., particularly his claim to be God and his claim that he is "THE way, THE truth and THE life. No one comes to the Father except through the son."

A real Christian will want to share this with as many people as he/she can because #1) Jesus commanded his disciples to go to all the world and preach the gospel (that is "good news," which, BTW means that there has to be bad news) , and #2) Real Christians truly believe that when we die, we will be judged for our sins and pay an eternal penalty (the bad news) unless Jesus Knows us personally! It is not enough for a person to say with their mouth that they know Jesus. For the Jesus they say they know may not be the Jesus who is God! Jesus said that many will come saying that they knew him and even performed miracles in his name, but that he will say "depart from me, I never knew you."

If Jesus rejects even those who did miracles in his name, won't he reject those that only paid lip service to his name, or even worse, blashemed his name by using it instead of a four letter curse word?

I'm sure for many of you I now fit the bill of the preachy bible thumping Christinan that you can't stand. My apologies if you feel that way. The point is though, the reason a true Christian wants to tell you is because a true Christian cares for your eternal well being as much, if not more than your earthly being.

If you were asked to stand along side a dark road and warn approaching motorists of the fact that the bridge ahead had been washed away and that, should they continue, they would meet certain death, would you use any means to warn those approaching, or would you feel compelled to only tell those who asked, at the risk of offending them or hurting their feelings? This is the delima Christians face in a world that doesn't want to hear about God. Christians do not want to hurt anyone's feelings. The Bible says that we are to "always {be] ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;" Therefore, those that try to beat others over the head with their bibles or films that present the message of the evil unbeleivers versus the "Holyer than thou" Christians are not communicating the message of the bible. No Christian is better than a non-believer, just forgiven. As was once said, we are only beggers trying to tell others where to find bread.

I mentioned some films earlier that I think many of you would enjoy, simply because they are great films, not specifically because they are Christian films. They do what the best films do, they tell a compelling story in an entertaining way. The bonus is, when they are over, you actually have something to take with you to think about. Hope I have too.

regards,
Matthew
 
I think we need to separate between sharing ones beliefs and trying to ram them down someone elses throat.

Personally I have no issue with people asking me if I would like to learn more about their religion (even door to door). It's when the asking about my interest part is neglected that I get pissed (either that or they just wont go away despite repeatedly saying "no." I don't think we can blame people for wanting to share their beliefs - it's when this gets out of hand that the line has been crossed. For me at least.
 
I agree that a main part of being a follower of Christ is preaching the gospel, but I think the word Preach gets a bum wrap. Dictionary.com define Preaching as:

1. To proclaim or put forth in a sermon: preached the gospel.
2. To advocate, especially to urge acceptance of or compliance with: preached tolerance and peaceful coexistence.
3. To deliver (a sermon).

Other definitions include: exhorting, prophesying, reproving, teaching, sharing, etc.

I don't find it necessary, as I am not called of God to be a minister, to get up in front of a congregation and put forth a sermon. Thus I do not follow that meaning. I choose, as a Christian to follow the other mentioned meanings: advocate, teach, and share. Other Christians may look down on me for "preaching" in the way that I feel most comfortable, but honestly that is between me and God.

Now allow me to play Devil's Advocate (or maybe in this case it would be Christ's Advocate...I'm not sure). But could it not be said that by vehemently expressing anger over Christians preaching at you, you are in turn preaching back at the Christians? So is it the preaching you don't like, or the message?

And concerning my "generalization" comments: I am a true believer that generalization is just about the worst thing you can do when it comes to condemning or admonishing a group for a percieved action. I think that every person has the God given right to be considered a fraud, failure, or fiend or fair, famous, or friend based on their own actions, not on the actions of those that surround them. (and before anyone says, "There's no 'I' in team," I'm not talking sports here I'm talking real world)

Now, for someone who once closed this thread for it not being about film, that's a lot of non-film stuff. So I feel I must bow out of this thread until I have something more filmic to post. Until then, if you feel like asking me questions about my faith but don't have to deal with filmmaking, PM me.

Thanks everyone.

Poke
 
Now, for someone who once closed this thread for it not being about film, that's a lot of non-film stuff. So I feel I must bow out of this thread until I have something more filmic to post. Until then, if you feel like asking me questions about my faith but don't have to deal with filmmaking, PM me.
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Good Poke Sir I wish you didn't feel that you had to bow out of this conversation. I understand your concerns about the lack of releviance to the world of film and respect your decision. However, I believe that this discussion and others like it should be had everywhere and often. As long as it remains constructive and for the most part this one has.

I was initially intending to respond to your last post in a PM however you have made some interesting points that I felt should be discussed further publicly.


And concerning my "generalization" comments: I am a true believer that generalization is just about the worst thing you can do when it comes to condemning or admonishing a group for a percieved action. I think that every person has the God given right to be considered a fraud, failure, or fiend or fair, famous, or friend based on their own actions, not on the actions of those that surround them. (and before anyone says, "There's no 'I' in team," I'm not talking sports here I'm talking real world)
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There is a great differance between generalizing and stereotyping. Perhaps this is just a case of semantics but this is not the first time that I have heard someone make the case that generalizing is a horrible thing. Generalization is the act of grouping based on commonality. It is neccesitated by the very fact that the individuals being grouped are unique. I have always felt comforatable making generalizations because I can not do so without respecting the fact that each individual is unique.

I do not deny the danger inherent in this behavior as our perceptions are tainted by limits in experience and emotional responses which can lead to false and unjust generalizations. However I have yet to meet the individual who could honestly state that they didn't make generalizations. So the challange becomes recognizing unjust generalizations and resisting the urge to force individuals to conform to these generalizations. That would be stereotyping.

But whatever you call it please understand that we are in complete agreement that judging individuals based on the behavior of others in a simaliar grouping is unfair and not acceptable.

Now allow me to play Devil's Advocate (or maybe in this case it would be Christ's Advocate...I'm not sure). But could it not be said that by vehemently expressing anger over Christians preaching at you, you are in turn preaching back at the Christians? So is it the preaching you don't like, or the message?
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Great questions. I really have little to add here I just felt that the questions that Poke asks are worthy of repeating. Now if you'll excuse me I am going to go take a good look at myself in the mirror.
 
I am not religious and I find it annoying when religious people try to convert me. I strongly oppose any form of religion but that's beside the point. If I want to learn about a religion, which most people would say is a personal thing, I would take that mission upon myself in my own time. I find it interesting as a non believer to read the Bible, Koran etc. for educational purposes and to improve my understanding of religion, which plays a very large role in society today.

Getting back to faith in films, I feel that a good religious film shouldn't aim to convert in the same way that a good documentary shouldn't show one side of the story.
 
I'd comment, but i'm currenty writing a script about christianity (specifically the writings of St. Augustine) in america, NASCAR, advertising, highway to heaven, and liberalism v. conservatism, so i'm saving all those words for the script.

but i will say that from what i learned in my 16 years of catholic education, jesus would tend to embrace those most unlike himself, not curse them. see the story of the prodigal son, the conversion of paul, the story of the tax collector, etc...

rants condeming fellow people for their beliefs and/or dismissing them for their beliefs is unchrist-like (not that everyone has to be christ-like... the world needs coke dealers too, you know).

all that is politics. to be truly spirtitual/religious, you need to rise above politics. (that being said, i'm a very political person and do exactly what i say shouldn't be done all the time. but i have a goal i'm working toward.)

so, that's my two cents.
 
WriteumCowboy said:
Poke,

Maybe I owe you an apology. You may have been right the first time.

WC
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No need to apologize. I am rarely ever right about anything.

As a mod, I think this thread has really played itself out. Let's keep all discussion based solely on Christian films or Christianity in films or even religion in films. No more bashing either side of the issue.

Poke
 
Let me ask you all this:

Would any of you be opposed to a film that demonstrates what it's like for a Christian to go through this life...the temptations, the failures, the hope, and the spiritual clarity that comes with following Christ?

Most Christian filmmakers have rejected my works because they don't aim to convert people to Christianity. I tend to do things edgy. Many Christian distributors have denied "Beating the Bunny" already because they think it's too risque for the Christian market.

My films typically open up taboo topics for discussion or expose a side of Christianity that is usually denied or ignored. My goals are usually to show the faults with man-and-church-centered religion and explore how really difficult it is to follow the ways of Jesus. Not preaching but more showing life's struggles and conquering them with faith, hope, love, and courage.

For those of you who don't follow Jesus, does this style of storytelling insult you?
 
Burnt Scroll, there are lots of examples that take this approach and most of them controversial, largely because of Christian groups that attack them as being anti-Christian.

To a large extent, you're just going to have to stop worrying about what other people think and just tell your story. With a charged topic like religion, you're simply not going to get approval from everyone.
 
Too true...

Since you profess Chritianity, I am going to assume that you feel filmmaking is a purpose that God has laid at your feet. This is at least how I feel about my chosen path in life.

If that is the case, then you must feel like "Beating the Bunny" and other tales untold are what God is telling through you.

Am I still correct in my assumption?

Poke
 
I'm a very open minded liberal Christian, which basically means that I believe and have accepted Jesus but my practices don't always match up because of my open mindedness and earthly interests, like filmmaking and rated 'R' films--love to watch em, love to make em.

Burnt Scroll is positively, absolutely 100% right. The churches are filled with hypocrisy and religious "propaganda". Now, on the subject of films...

I'm not Kubrick and we certainly can't dig him up and ask him, but do you guys remember that scene in Clockwork Orange when Alex is running the projector at jail church. The preacher talks about repenting from sin, but when someone laughs he says "Damn you." I analyzed this scene long and hard and I find it to be one of my favorite scenes ever shot because of what it means to me...I think that scene was Kubrick's way of showing us hypocracy in the church...because the same man who's trying to 'save' prisoners is also saying 'damn you' which is the exact opposite of being 'saved.' I think the scene was trying to show that everyone in church expects everyone in church to smile and always put God first, and they do......at church. Then Kubrick began showing us what you don't see in people at church...what they're really like...again, I'm not Kubrick--but that's how I figure it and I love that scene...
 
Burnt Scroll said:
Would any of you be opposed to a film that demonstrates what it's like for a Christian to go through this life...the temptations, the failures, the hope, and the spiritual clarity that comes with following Christ?
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....the problem you will most likely run into is your character's possibility of becoming a martyr or some pillar of virtue. That will probably turn quite a few people off. The trick is to make him/her human. I think that sometimes people forget that being Christian does not mean you are infalible. People are people and Christian or not Christian we are all flawed. If you can make that clear, then what you will have is a story about a person trying to get through their day as they try to be a good person and the problems that they come across in their attempts, successes and failures. Come up with a compelling story line and I'll pay my $8 to go see it....

--spinner :cool:
 
Poke said:
Too true...

Since you profess Chritianity, I am going to assume that you feel filmmaking is a purpose that God has laid at your feet. This is at least how I feel about my chosen path in life.

If that is the case, then you must feel like "Beating the Bunny" and other tales untold are what God is telling through you.

Am I still correct in my assumption?

Poke
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Holy Crap! You and Beeblebrox are right. "Beating the Bunny" has become hideously, hideously controversial. Either people love it or hate it. Either they think it's going to open wounds and help the healing process or it's a damned tool of satan.

I went to a youth group meeting tonight (not my usual group). I had reccommended earlier that they play "Beating the Bunny" to the students to launch a discussion about porn. They watched it beforehand. Several of the student leaders walked out after the first scene (which is nothing more than a dancing girl in a bikini transforming into a giant, evil, pink bunny). Apparently, they thought it wasn't appropriate.

Later, I talked to one of them, who was a friend of mine. He told me he was offended on how I presented it. (For example, in one scene I show the dad finding a tube of lube jelly on the bathroom sink as his son takes his shower.) Showing (non-explicitly) instead of saying. The guy told me that his mother and father never brought up the topics of pornography or sex, that it was never an issue for them, so the film was thus inappropriate for them. He thought it wasn't right to talk about sex. I have never been so disheartened to hear those words.

It's almost as if he would have rather watched a scene where the main character sits on his bed, writing in the journal with a gentle voice narrating, "Oh sorrow I have on myself, for yesterday I caught myself looking at profane images and committing self-abuse." Creepy.

I've had guys literally tell me that they've never masturbated...EVER! Come on, if you know what it is, and you're a guy, you've probably tried it (I can't say the same thing about drugs, because you have to consciously buy them from someone or make them yourself...for masturbation, it's so much more easy to end up trying it.) And out of ignorance you probably figure out how addictive it is, and you end up doing it everyday secretly. That's the trap we get in. It's real.

I believe I have a real close relationship with Christ, but I still struggle with porn. When I go to these church meetings and hear that porn really isn't an issue for a lot of people, it either 1) makes me feel like I'm a real sicko while everyone else is all righteous with God or 2) people are in some SERIOUS denial and choose to ignore the issue. Ugh...I have a really sick feeling in my stomach tonight.
 
Burnt Scroll said:
I believe I have a real close relationship with Christ, but I still struggle with porn. When I go to these church meetings and hear that porn really isn't an issue for a lot of people, it either 1) makes me feel like I'm a real sicko while everyone else is all righteous with God or 2) people are in some SERIOUS denial and choose to ignore the issue.
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I'd bet my money on #2.

Honestly, I wouldn't get too bothered over it. Where in the Bible does it say anything about porn? Where does it say anything about half the stuff that's associated with so-called Christian morals these days?

And before these guys who their panties in a wad about sex in a movie, I'd point out to them that if anyone ever did a TRUE adaptation of the Bible, it would be the most vile x-rated film (for gore, violence, sex, rape, incest, sodomy, infanticide, genocide, and so on) ever made.
 
The way I see it there isn't anything you could possibly do which hasn't been done numerous times by just about everyone. What is freedom if it precludes the freedom to make mistakes?
 
I think it is important here to state that all manner of "Christian" immorality can be handled tastefully. Many people have mentioned the "vile" and "x-rated" status that a Bible-movie would encompass. What hasn't been mentioned much is the fact that a GOOD script CAN handle rape, violence, sex, and even dialogue without being rash, or even brazen. If blatant nudity or profane language is somehow related to the ART of a film, then so be it.

The problem is that those things are becoming commonplace. I can't count the movies I've seen where there is a sex scene here, the F-word there, and it really had no bearing on the concept or art of the film whatsoever. It left me asking WHY. Why was that even in there? Did they need a time filler? Could the writer not think of a better way to express love, anger, or rage?

As a Christian, I choose to obstain from swearing and sex, but sometimes a word slips out and no, I am not a virgin. Right wing, left wing, liberal, or Christian -- even Jesus got mad and ransacked the temple. And for good reason.

I guess all I'm saying is that a good script won't preach or have NEEDLESS scenes of blatant eroticism. The message should speak through the characters and plot, not through tedious monologues, curse words, and sex.
 
"I guess all I'm saying is that a good script won't preach .... The message should speak through the characters and plot, not through tedious monologues."

This is the #1 reason that Dogma sucked.
 
I believe I have a real close relationship with Christ, but I still struggle
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...I would think that life in itself is a struggle regardless of what the struggle is. The trick is to not be judgemental about other people's struggles and try to relate since you have struggles of your own. Just 'cuz your blues ain't like mine, don't mean they ain't the blues....

...this thread could be a good basis for a film....and btw, I LOVED Dogma...

--spinner :cool:
 
writersblock said:
As a Christian, I choose to obstain from swearing and sex, but sometimes a word slips out and no, I am not a virgin.
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What does being a Christian have to do with swearing and sex? I'm just wondering where this kind of modern morality got tied up with Christianity. Am I less of a Christian because I swear like a sailor? Would my films violate some passage in the Bible because of profanity or depiction of sex?
 
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