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To the filmmakers, who HATE piracy...
- Thread starter ntpiracy.com
- Start date
I think more films should do this. The film industry needs to adjust to the digital age just like the music industry has been doing. There's no advantage to watching a movie on a 20 inch monitor over a big movie screen- the filmmakers and distribution companies just need to make sure that the average moviegoer remembers that.
Piracy hurts all films in some degree, but I think quality does a play a part. At least for big budget films, if the movie gets good reviews or good word of mouth, then the effect from piracy is typically not going to be as noticeable (if at all). For many people, the decision whether or not to pay for a film comes down to if they feel like it's worth seeing on a big screen (it's not necessarily right, but that's how it is)
TJones05, no advantage? What about the fact you don't have to deal with rude people like you do at the theater, you have control over the audio at all times, you can use the bathroom and not miss anything (pause the movie), don't have to deal with little kids. Lets not forget when watching at it home you can watch a movie in any type of light since you aren't watching it on a projector (unless you have a projector at home and that's how you watch them.)
For anyone interested in listening... I'm going to speak my mind as I always do in these forums because I'm pretty damn good at it 
I'm not going to say if piracy is a good thing or a bad thing. But I will say this about media piracy. It has happened, it is happening and it will continue to happen and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. So, instead of b!tching about it why not use it to your advantage. Where are all the creative minds!? For real...
tick.tock.tick.tock.
I'm not going to say if piracy is a good thing or a bad thing. But I will say this about media piracy. It has happened, it is happening and it will continue to happen and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. So, instead of b!tching about it why not use it to your advantage. Where are all the creative minds!? For real...
tick.tock.tick.tock.
These are incredibly subjective, one sided arguments - which are about about home video watching and not at all about piracy or what makes piracy a benefit....
Most times I go to the theater, it is an amazing and great experience. I think pausing the movie to take a wizz is ruining the movie experience. How into the movie can you be if you can have all the distractions of turning on lights seeing other things, stopping to talk a phone call, or pause to do something else? That has destroyed the entire movie watching EXPERIENCE, at least to what that means to me. I can only speak for myself. To each his own...
I love going to the theater to watch movies- it's the reason I want to make movies. To me, it's an experience that can't be replicated on any home theater system. I like being around other people and sitting in my favorite seat for a couple hours. I agree it's annoying when people use their cell phones or bring kids, but whenever I have the opportunity to go see a movie at the theater, I'll always pick that over downloading it
There is no argument to piracy. Sales have declined ever since Napster. Record companies have laid people off like crazy. Labels have had to rethink their whole business model -- Now it's about making money from touring.
Movie companies no longer have the sales stats that they used to have, especially in Europe.
To say "it's promotion" is ridiculous. Ever heard of a "trailer"? That's promotion that gets people to buy.
Proof is in the pudding. If filmmakers and record companies thought that piracy was a good thing then they would have accepted it. Instead they have fought it and continue to fight entities like Pirate Bay.
Movie companies no longer have the sales stats that they used to have, especially in Europe.
To say "it's promotion" is ridiculous. Ever heard of a "trailer"? That's promotion that gets people to buy.
Proof is in the pudding. If filmmakers and record companies thought that piracy was a good thing then they would have accepted it. Instead they have fought it and continue to fight entities like Pirate Bay.
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You're right it has nothing to do with piracy but I was just stating my mind on what he brought up.
Very subjective but still very valid arguments. I wasn't talking about taking a wizz I was actually talking about talking a crap. Some of us have unfortunate digestive issues and can't hold it, like me who has a bad case of IBS.
I speak from my own personal experience over the past 35 years.
I went into OWL recording studios and cut an LP in 1975 called One St. Stephen (was to be used for a soundtrack I had submitted a script for, trying to get an AFI grant in 1975). By 1991 it was one of the most sought after LPs by collectors, classic LP reviewers called it "one of the best psychedelic albums of the 70's". Still LOL about that.
That is the backstory. point is, the LP was converted to CD by Radio Active Records in England in the late 90's without my permission. Never saw a dime. The Jimi Hendrix Estate sued Radio Active Records and won for Radio Active's theft of Hendrix material. The Hendrix Estate spent a fortune in litigation but never saw any money for their litigation because Radio Active cleared out their warehouses, selling everything to other companies and vanished into the wood work.
I still have yet to see a dime from those illegal bootlegs of my work.
Anazitisi Records in Greece, contacted me to get the rights for a re release of the LP last year (for the demand by collectors). Yes, there are some very honest entrepreneurs out there... and they paid me for LPs pressed.
My original fine art (award winning work -- images) has been copied and stolen over the years as well. Never saw a dime.
My movies made, have not yet been stolen (guess I am not that good of a film maker?)... my scripts I share for reads, because they are copyrighted @ LOC and registered with WGA West.
My final point is, it is easy to say or write "I think piracy helps the entertainment world in the long run," until you get your hard work and the hard work of others, that has cost you money, time and great effort -- that you have created only to be stolen for a profit by the thief. I don't mind a few people sharing my work for free on a small scale "share" (song here or image there) -- it is when profits are made at my expense on a large scale... wholesale theft. At the same time, even when protecting yourself with copyrights -- one can't control the culture of theft. AND IT IS STEALING.
I went into OWL recording studios and cut an LP in 1975 called One St. Stephen (was to be used for a soundtrack I had submitted a script for, trying to get an AFI grant in 1975). By 1991 it was one of the most sought after LPs by collectors, classic LP reviewers called it "one of the best psychedelic albums of the 70's". Still LOL about that.
That is the backstory. point is, the LP was converted to CD by Radio Active Records in England in the late 90's without my permission. Never saw a dime. The Jimi Hendrix Estate sued Radio Active Records and won for Radio Active's theft of Hendrix material. The Hendrix Estate spent a fortune in litigation but never saw any money for their litigation because Radio Active cleared out their warehouses, selling everything to other companies and vanished into the wood work.
I still have yet to see a dime from those illegal bootlegs of my work.
Anazitisi Records in Greece, contacted me to get the rights for a re release of the LP last year (for the demand by collectors). Yes, there are some very honest entrepreneurs out there... and they paid me for LPs pressed.
My original fine art (award winning work -- images) has been copied and stolen over the years as well. Never saw a dime.
My movies made, have not yet been stolen (guess I am not that good of a film maker?)... my scripts I share for reads, because they are copyrighted @ LOC and registered with WGA West.
My final point is, it is easy to say or write "I think piracy helps the entertainment world in the long run," until you get your hard work and the hard work of others, that has cost you money, time and great effort -- that you have created only to be stolen for a profit by the thief. I don't mind a few people sharing my work for free on a small scale "share" (song here or image there) -- it is when profits are made at my expense on a large scale... wholesale theft. At the same time, even when protecting yourself with copyrights -- one can't control the culture of theft. AND IT IS STEALING.
Ok fine, maybe everyone should look at Google or any other search engine that ALLOWS the listing of these illegal sites and have them take the listing down. I mean, that's the justification I have gotten from people.
You can rant and rave on this board or any other all you want. You're fighting a majority. You're not going to win. Piracy exists and you can't do a damn thing about it.
Oh, and my investors know about the piracy deal, and they don't blame me one bit. After all, I'm not giving it away, it's being taken. (I think)
People have become tired of and pissed at the huge profits big company's have made over the years from their product. They have waken up to the method of free enterprise, and since the general public outnumbers the artists, well...
You can rant and rave on this board or any other all you want. You're fighting a majority. You're not going to win. Piracy exists and you can't do a damn thing about it.
Oh, and my investors know about the piracy deal, and they don't blame me one bit. After all, I'm not giving it away, it's being taken. (I think)
People have become tired of and pissed at the huge profits big company's have made over the years from their product. They have waken up to the method of free enterprise, and since the general public outnumbers the artists, well...
Piracy can be curbed and it can be stopped,.first and foremost by the general public. Once the understanding that it's no different than stealing from someone else. Just because it's on a computer instead of picking a lock doesn't change anything about the FACT that it's illegal and wrong.
This is what is hard to comprehend. You don't feel it's okay to walk into someone else's house and steal their DVD's, but it is okay to go to a website, download someone else's movie illegally... How do you live with yourselves morally and ethically? Because it's hard to stop, that makes it okay? Because the copyrights are owned by a corporation that has profit, this makes it okay to steal from them?
two points here:
Point the firstly, Big numbers stated as fact with no source material and hatred at big corporations don't give SB's mom her pension money (an example with as much fact finding employed as the other numbers thrown out) back that she lent him in good faith... and SB, having not broken even or better yet, made a profit, can't make his next film as investors for future projects look at little things like ROI and P&L when considering an investment. Unfortunately, the criminal world doesn't see the harm they're doing.
Let's use those same big numbers to work this out. If the 10% of 600,000,000 viewers @ $10/ DVD were to pay, then Big company X would see a revenue of $600,000,000 --- and SB's pressing of 1000 DVDs with that same return sits in boxes and cost him 50% of his budget to make and market. Your arguments of the numbers support that it's OK is extremely short sighted as the fallout kills off the "democratization of cinema" that all of here are supposed to support as the democracy of that mode of cinema... to paraphrase "Tod the Destroyer" - "Shoot yourself in the [artistic] head." You're killing the possiblilty that your art can ever be something you make a living doing as you'll never get past the hobbyist money-losing point that we all have to start out in hoping someday to be able to make a profit so we can continue doing this as a career. If you choose to copy left or open source your works, do so... but do it with your works, not mine or SB's or Sony's as we've all got the same right as you to choose how our works are shown. Unless you want to shell out for the losses, then by all means, steal my stuff, I'll send you a bill and my lawyer!
B) I've gone all frothy and forgotten my second point, just assume it was well argued and poignant please.
Point the firstly, Big numbers stated as fact with no source material and hatred at big corporations don't give SB's mom her pension money (an example with as much fact finding employed as the other numbers thrown out) back that she lent him in good faith... and SB, having not broken even or better yet, made a profit, can't make his next film as investors for future projects look at little things like ROI and P&L when considering an investment. Unfortunately, the criminal world doesn't see the harm they're doing.
Let's use those same big numbers to work this out. If the 10% of 600,000,000 viewers @ $10/ DVD were to pay, then Big company X would see a revenue of $600,000,000 --- and SB's pressing of 1000 DVDs with that same return sits in boxes and cost him 50% of his budget to make and market. Your arguments of the numbers support that it's OK is extremely short sighted as the fallout kills off the "democratization of cinema" that all of here are supposed to support as the democracy of that mode of cinema... to paraphrase "Tod the Destroyer" - "Shoot yourself in the [artistic] head." You're killing the possiblilty that your art can ever be something you make a living doing as you'll never get past the hobbyist money-losing point that we all have to start out in hoping someday to be able to make a profit so we can continue doing this as a career. If you choose to copy left or open source your works, do so... but do it with your works, not mine or SB's or Sony's as we've all got the same right as you to choose how our works are shown. Unless you want to shell out for the losses, then by all means, steal my stuff, I'll send you a bill and my lawyer!
B) I've gone all frothy and forgotten my second point, just assume it was well argued and poignant please.
two points here:
Point the firstly, Big numbers stated as fact with no source material and hatred at big corporations don't give SB's mom her pension money (an example with as much fact finding employed as the other numbers thrown out) back that she lent him in good faith... and SB, having not broken even or better yet, made a profit, can't make his next film as investors for future projects look at little things like ROI and P&L when considering an investment. Unfortunately, the criminal world doesn't see the harm they're doing.
Let's use those same big numbers to work this out. If the 10% of 600,000,000 viewers @ $10/ DVD were to pay, then Big company X would see a revenue of $600,000,000 --- and SB's pressing of 1000 DVDs with that same return sits in boxes and cost him 50% of his budget to make and market. Your arguments of the numbers support that it's OK is extremely short sighted as the fallout kills off the "democratization of cinema" that all of here are supposed to support as the democracy of that mode of cinema... to paraphrase "Tod the Destroyer" - "Shoot yourself in the [artistic] head." You're killing the possiblilty that your art can ever be something you make a living doing as you'll never get past the hobbyist money-losing point that we all have to start out in hoping someday to be able to make a profit so we can continue doing this as a career. If you choose to copy left or open source your works, do so... but do it with your works, not mine or SB's or Sony's as we've all got the same right as you to choose how our works are shown. Unless you want to shell out for the losses, then by all means, steal my stuff, I'll send you a bill and my lawyer!
B) I've gone all frothy and forgotten my second point, just assume it was well argued and poignant please.
Point the firstly, Big numbers stated as fact with no source material and hatred at big corporations don't give SB's mom her pension money (an example with as much fact finding employed as the other numbers thrown out) back that she lent him in good faith... and SB, having not broken even or better yet, made a profit, can't make his next film as investors for future projects look at little things like ROI and P&L when considering an investment. Unfortunately, the criminal world doesn't see the harm they're doing.
Let's use those same big numbers to work this out. If the 10% of 600,000,000 viewers @ $10/ DVD were to pay, then Big company X would see a revenue of $600,000,000 --- and SB's pressing of 1000 DVDs with that same return sits in boxes and cost him 50% of his budget to make and market. Your arguments of the numbers support that it's OK is extremely short sighted as the fallout kills off the "democratization of cinema" that all of here are supposed to support as the democracy of that mode of cinema... to paraphrase "Tod the Destroyer" - "Shoot yourself in the [artistic] head." You're killing the possiblilty that your art can ever be something you make a living doing as you'll never get past the hobbyist money-losing point that we all have to start out in hoping someday to be able to make a profit so we can continue doing this as a career. If you choose to copy left or open source your works, do so... but do it with your works, not mine or SB's or Sony's as we've all got the same right as you to choose how our works are shown. Unless you want to shell out for the losses, then by all means, steal my stuff, I'll send you a bill and my lawyer!
B) I've gone all frothy and forgotten my second point, just assume it was well argued and poignant please.
two points here:
Point the firstly, Big numbers stated as fact with no source material and hatred at big corporations don't give SB's mom her pension money (an example with as much fact finding employed as the other numbers thrown out) back that she lent him in good faith... and SB, having not broken even or better yet, made a profit, can't make his next film as investors for future projects look at little things like ROI and P&L when considering an investment. Unfortunately, the criminal world doesn't see the harm they're doing.
Let's use those same big numbers to work this out. If the 10% of 600,000,000 viewers @ $10/ DVD were to pay, then Big company X would see a revenue of $600,000,000 --- and SB's pressing of 1000 DVDs with that same return sits in boxes and cost him 50% of his budget to make and market. Your arguments of the numbers support that it's OK is extremely short sighted as the fallout kills off the "democratization of cinema" that all of here are supposed to support as the democracy of that mode of cinema... to paraphrase "Tod the Destroyer" - "Shoot yourself in the [artistic] head." You're killing the possiblilty that your art can ever be something you make a living doing as you'll never get past the hobbyist money-losing point that we all have to start out in hoping someday to be able to make a profit so we can continue doing this as a career. If you choose to copy left or open source your works, do so... but do it with your works, not mine or SB's or Sony's as we've all got the same right as you to choose how our works are shown. Unless you want to shell out for the losses, then by all means, steal my stuff, I'll send you a bill and my lawyer!
B) I've gone all frothy and forgotten my second point, just assume it was well argued and poignant please.[/QUOTE]
Well said, second point! Truly thought provoking and inspiring-you may have just solved world peace! Well done Knightly, well done. Oh yea, and I'm down with the you giving the 10 grand loan for my next project-that was awfully swell of you!
Okay, just some adding some levity to the thread hereIt is a pretty sensitive subject and there passion on both sides of the argument.
And I mean no disrespect to Knightly-I hope you take it as it was meant, just some levity to a potboiler situation it seems-I hear your point loud and clear!
I would never help my mother's pension.
I get that your quotes are hypothetical, but others my not have known that. I did break even, but I didn't get to make as much as the movie could have directly because of Internet piracy. That's not whining, that's stating the numerical facts that cannot be disputed.
Again, this is hypothetical and not what we did with our feature, but the math is true for more current and lower budgeted features.
Now, to answer to the question of how can we combat this, we're in negotiations now with HULU to try to get it online legitimately and by our terms. Also, we'd get revenue from the ads. So it wouldn't be entirely free. That is a solution that also puts the burden and costs of advertising on me to compete with shows and movies with millions of dollars.
Look Sonny, I know what you're saying, I know that piracy hurts us, I know more than you think I do. But know this; piracy is something that exists and will not stop because people don't care anymore.
You think kicking and screaming about it is going to stop it? It isn't. You can write to all the search engine people and anyone else you want about stopping it, but it would take YEARS to get anything done, if you were able to. You could write to all the electronics manufacturers and tell them to stop making products that can rip and burn. And then, people would just find another way to do it. There's a counter attack for every counter attack.
I'm not saying it's right, and I don't like it any more than you do, but it's something that is going to keep happening no matter what. It's the electronic age buddy, and people don't have to walk into your house to take anything anymore.
Make distribution of movies easier with online content and country-free, with very low prices with a gain in demand and piracy will go away. Only miserable people would not buy the movies for a few bucks. Maybe bonuses for watching more movies would grant you free hard copy versions that you may choose from.
Bittorrent with seeded sponsorship would be a great way of reducing costs for renting movies.
Bittorrent with seeded sponsorship would be a great way of reducing costs for renting movies.
I don't think anything I've written has been whining or screaming. (I didn't write in all caps.) I'm a person, as are other people who have responded, that do care. I wouldn't discount ignorance for not caring.
Unfortunately, what is going to take years is when people who are internet savvy get into position of power, IE elected officials, that understand the concept of this theft, not 60+ years old congressmen (and women), then things will change. Also parents will start to understand the same concept that this is theft and highly illegal and it will then be punishable, then maybe it will start to become less freeloading.
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Well, you guys believe that we can’t overcome piracy. Ntpiracy.com also believes that it will be very difficult to get over it. Don’t you think when we believe in something in that case it’ll be harder to bypass. Do we think the way: what is branding, what is promotion, what is campaign? Look, Ntpiracy.com is not just arguing as Ntpiracy.com has to ague on piracy. What we believe is, we’ll have to work out together. It’s not possible to wipe out every root of piracy but we can help the world by minimizing it.
Now you can ask Ntpiracy.com that how may we minimize it? The people who believe in anti-piracy, will have to move forward together. Look, we have our friends and family. At least we can send our message to them. If we can make 10% of them understand the loss of piracy then the success will come. That 10% will make another 10% and thus we’ll make a piracy-free world.
Ntpiracy.com introduced “HATE PIRACY” badge. We’ll have to wear it, we can put it on our websites, forum, social communication networks and so on. And then someone (a friend or family) would see it, then a question may arise by them: what’s that and why’s that for? If we answer them and try to make them understand then we’ll see the success.
It’s not a shot term plan, it’s a long term plan. We’ll have to run this campaign for a long. One day success will come.
Ntpiracy.com knows that you may argue, but we request you not to argue when we have the same vision. When we argue, the pirates will laugh. Can we let them laugh when we have a dream of making a piracy-free world?
Now you can ask Ntpiracy.com that how may we minimize it? The people who believe in anti-piracy, will have to move forward together. Look, we have our friends and family. At least we can send our message to them. If we can make 10% of them understand the loss of piracy then the success will come. That 10% will make another 10% and thus we’ll make a piracy-free world.
Ntpiracy.com introduced “HATE PIRACY” badge. We’ll have to wear it, we can put it on our websites, forum, social communication networks and so on. And then someone (a friend or family) would see it, then a question may arise by them: what’s that and why’s that for? If we answer them and try to make them understand then we’ll see the success.
It’s not a shot term plan, it’s a long term plan. We’ll have to run this campaign for a long. One day success will come.
Ntpiracy.com knows that you may argue, but we request you not to argue when we have the same vision. When we argue, the pirates will laugh. Can we let them laugh when we have a dream of making a piracy-free world?
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