To move or not to move; what would you do?

I'm at a bit of a personal crossroads, and the ongoing debate with myself has become rather protracted. Now, I'm not so much of a willy-nilly that I'd make such a major decision based solely on the recommendations of people who only know me online. However, maybe somebody on here might point something out that I hadn't considered, yet.

The #1 Goal is to make the next feature. But I'm not going to do the self-funded, ultra-low-budget thing again. I need a "real" budget ("real" enough to hire a competent (albeit small) crew, most importantly, a sound expert and a DP). I realize that achieving this goal may very well take years, though I'm not sure what the shortest path to that end is.

At some point, I'll be moving to LA. The question is this -- make feature film first, or move to LA first?

On one hand, in Richmond I'm a relatively big fish, in a little pond. In LA, I'd be a tiny fish, in a huge pond. Might I have an easier time finding a financier, if I'm not competing with the entire population of the greater metropolitan Los Angeles area?

On the other hand, I've also considered the possibility that perhaps one great strategy to making the goal of the feature happen would be in aligning myself with one or two other people who would be just as interested as I am in making the feature happen.

Specifically, what if, prior to even searching for financing, I can find a talented DP who is willing to take on co-producer status, and make all of the same sacrifices and commitments of time that I am, without any promise of big paycheck? What if I were able to do the same thing with a talented sound recordist? I think a small team of co-producers, made up of myself, a DP and a sound recordist, would have a much easier time finding financing, than just me.

In that respect, if aligning myself with other talented and committed filmmakers is what is needed to make the end-goal happen, then I think it's a pretty obvious choice to move to LA, ASAP.

Anything I haven't considered? Your thoughts?

Thanks, and cheers!
 
In my honest opinion, I don't like LA at all. You couldn't pay me to move there! I would make movies and work on projects where you are at, take the momentum you build, and continue to make even bigger projects. You can make a $3 million movie in any state. Network and fly in crew/actors to your state if you ever desire and get to that point. Fly into LA-CA if you need to. You can definitely find a qualified DP - Sound - crew in general in places other than California. Plus, films are starting to branch out of LA towards other states because of a variety of reasons, which makes our lives easier. Just my opinion. :)
 
A lot of filmmaking, in the pre-production stages especially, is all about networking. And networking means having connections. If you've already got connections in Richmond, you're probably in a much better place to find financing for your next film there rather than LA.

Think, too, about the cost of living differences. Just the basic necessities in LA are going to cost you probably twice what you're paying in Richmond (or more), and any pay increase probably isn't enough to make up for all of that. That means you'll likely end up working more hours, which means less time to network and make connections out there. I had friends who tried to make it in LA, and moved back to the northeast within a few months because it was just too damn expensive and the only work they could get was low-paying and soul-sucking.

I would expect you could find a committed DP and a committed sound person on the east coast somewhere. Other than actual production, most of what's needed to get a film produced could be done on the phone, online, etc. Look north toward NYC for connections. There's a commuter train that runs from the Richmond area all the way to Boston, so even if you did have to get together for occasional face-to-face meetings, it's not that hard to do.

Then again, I'm one of those people that you couldn't pay enough to move to California, especially southern California. I just wouldn't do it. But that's just me.
 
I'm in a similar position. I have a group of filmmaker friends, and access to students who love to work for free, but I'm having trouble finding anyone willing to move beyond short films to a feature. Even a longer more ambitious short I tried to get off the ground as Producer/DP failed when the Writer/Director lost interest after a less than stellar casting call. I have a modest amount of money in the bank, and have been seriously considering taking the plunge and moving to LA. I know I'd have to start from scratch, but at least I'd be able to find jobs working on set.
 
My recommendation (and it's a totally baseless one) is to move to LA and start working in the film industry. Undoubtedly you'll have to do a bunch of things that you don't want to do at first, but I really think that'll be the shortest way to your goal. I don't think there's much point in moving to LA and then seeking financing because (or so Family Guy tells me) that's what everyone does.

If you are going to move to LA, move there because it's the centre of the US film industry and a place where you can start working on film sets and in film production. That'll be the best way to both learn the craft and make the all important contacts.
 
Briefly: I moved to CA with 1500, my favorite blanket and pillow, some clothes and no job lined up, not a single contact to exploit. No prior knowledge to this stuff aside from screenwriting. Today, I do nothing but this for a living and in the next twelve hours I'll be officially done with the writing stages on our next feature film, and hopefully beginning principal in October.

What I didn't mention in that tiny blurb?


- It took me more than a year to get to Los Angeles.
- I worked a crappy-ass job at a Call Center being hung up on and screamed at by people all over the U.S.
- I slept on the floor in someone else's bedroom and pretty much burdened them.
- When I got my first job in LA it was a cubicle gig doing what I did naturally: DIgital Illlustration.
- Took me another year to build up enough money to buy an HVX200
- Got laid off and went broke, so had to start all over and try to work for people shooting their stuff.
- Lots more serious hardships like having all of my gear stolen and even now I'm broke as hell.

The cost of living in LA is no joke: I pay about 1200 in bills to live in a cubby hole with no kitchen, I can't afford to go many places, tags on my car are expired so I'm afraid to drive. Haha. List goes on, man.

Tiny Fish in a Big Pond should read more like plankton in the ocean, there are so many people here trying to do the exact same thing and it costs more to do it in LA.

S'not to say that it can't be done, it's just that moving to Los Angeles severely decreases your chances of getting anything serious produced within the next two years unless you already have contacts or you're bringing a budget here.

The wise thing to do would be to do your next project right where you are, take advantage of what you can get for free and execute. Then shop that around and find your way here later on.

If you're adamant about moving, though, just be prepared to spend a while here getting adjusted in the first place. It's no hard rule, but most people don't break any ground for the first two years, third one trickles, fourth one gets better, then maybe you strike gold.

And that's if you don't have to work a real job during the day.

If I were smart back then I would've stayed in Georgia and just started networking. Cost of living was so small that I could've gotten into the industry and made serious bank, then made a serious feature film. On the flipside, I did acquire the kind of training and contacts that you move here for, and I'm just waiting for those to cook properly. In addition, being here and now having a pretty high profile nano-budget feature to push gets me more contacts weekly.

So, that's why I say to do your feature first, then maybe take a trip out for a month to see what you can do.

Grain of salt beyond that,. Just my experiences in short.
 
I'm in a similar position. I have a group of filmmaker friends, and access to students who love to work for free, but I'm having trouble finding anyone willing to move beyond short films to a feature. Even a longer more ambitious short I tried to get off the ground as Producer/DP failed when the Writer/Director lost interest after a less than stellar casting call. I have a modest amount of money in the bank, and have been seriously considering taking the plunge and moving to LA. I know I'd have to start from scratch, but at least I'd be able to find jobs working on set.

Yeah, it's sorta no different here. If you find someone that's as dedicated as you are, chances are they're on their own projects and have no time for your stuff. Trust me on that one, I've gone through it way too many times in this short span of existing here.

Also, even for small set jobs that actually pay you enough to sustain, you need to know someone that knows someone. There's really no just finding set jobs and working because there aren't enough to go around here, believe it or not.
 
At some point, I'll be moving to LA. The question is this -- make feature film first, or move to LA first?
Make a feature first.

You're right. You will not find financing in Los Angeles. Too many people
hitting too few people. In your budget allow for travel and lodging for a
"a sound expert and a DP" if you can't find these people locally.

On the other hand, I've also considered the possibility that perhaps one great strategy to making the goal of the feature happen would be in aligning myself with one or two other people who would be just as interested as I am in making the feature happen.
The issue with this is you will be competing with thousands of directors
looking to align themselves with one or two other people. There are more
directors out here than the one or two other people. I personally know
20 people who came out here hoping to find one or two other people who
are just as interested in making a feature happen as they are. None of
them want to NOT direct.

If you came out here as the producer looking for a director you would find
hundreds.

Specifically, what if, prior to even searching for financing, I can find a talented DP who is willing to take on co-producer status, and make all of the same sacrifices and commitments of time that I am, without any promise of big paycheck? What if I were able to do the same thing with a talented sound recordist? I think a small team of co-producers, made up of myself, a DP and a sound recordist, would have a much easier time finding financing, than just me.
That's reasonable.

What you will find here in LA is that most DP and audio people are looking for
work - not looking to find financing. But it could happen. I've been looking for
those people for decades with no luck. If you find them do NOT mention it
here. I will hunt you down and take them from you. By physical force if necessary.
 
From the outside, looking in: I agree with Kholi. You would be doing yourself a disservice, at

this point, by moving to LA. However small, you do have some clout where you are. There are

people who are familiar with you being a film maker. You have a pool of resources you can

draw from, however small. If you move to LA, you lose all of that. Also, I would not

underestimate the cost of living in LA/California in general. I mean this is the place that takes

a $80k house and makes it $500k :)

But, like I said, I'm on the outside looking in. This is really a choice only you can make.
 
So many pros and cons about a move to anywhere.

I came across this article via Twitter, thought it bore posting (not that Richmond is a small town, but you get the idea)
http://www.indiewire.com/article/eight_great_reasons_to_shoot_your_movie_in_a_small_town/

My thought would be to make another feature (or two) right where you are with the resources you have available. Ratchet up all aspects of your production (not that they are lagging at all, I have yet to see Antihero, I'm sure it's good) find a script or write another one that can be shot in and around Richmond and keep at it.

I can't say whether or not a move to L.A. for you is right or wrong, but there are definitely some major hoops of fire to jump through to find a place and get settled and the price of living is quite high. You can throw a rock and hit 10 filmmakers at once. Everyone is looking for a way to make their dream happen and get to the next level.

We have an open door policy at our place in Ventura, about an hour north of Hollywood on the 101, should you need or want a place to land for a few days, if only to scope out the greater L.A. area. You'll need a car to get just about anywhere.

To me, the SoCal area is not very inspiring in terms of locations. I'd much rather be pointing the camera at buildings in the northwest or back home in New England. But once in a while I come across a small town or area that greases the gears a bit.

Good luck, Cracker!
 
To me, the SoCal area is not very inspiring in terms of locations. I'd much rather be pointing the camera at buildings in the northwest or back home in New England. But once in a while I come across a small town or area that greases the gears a bit.

Good luck, Cracker!

Seriously, though. It's the MOST uninspiring place to shoot. Locations are extra boring. I can't wait to get out of here and shoot back home in Georgia, or Oregon, or MIchigan... anywhere but here...

Funny thing is, any great location here is going to cost you a torso (Upper or lower, your choice)... but, great locations elsewhere? Few bucks and some smiles.

Jealous.

Also, I would not

underestimate the cost of living in LA/California in general. I mean this is the place that takes

a $80k house and makes it $500k :)


Try 1.5M... and you don't even get a yard!!! lol
 
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Here's an idea. If you really want to relocate, why not relocate to a city that has an active film community, but is not as saturated as LA. Such as Dallas/Ft. Worth. There are studios here, rental companies, etc. Sure, it is not LA or New York but there is a film community here. I am sure there are other cities around the country the have a larger film community than where you are, but are not overly populated like LA.

Just a thought.
 
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Very interesting thread, CF. I'm in a similar situation myself; my manager has been urging me to move down there ever since I signed with him 9 years ago, but the thought of leaving my house, clean air, lush greenery and sparkling rivers for the callus, asphalt grind of L.A. has always made me balk. Now, however, my college position has been eliminated, coinciding with the completion of my new feature. My work options are pretty limited here.

Manager just phoned again last night to ask when I'm coming. He's had faith in me all these years, despite my never having made him a dime, so I think it's time... :eek:
 
What a terrifying thread haha

At first I was thinking about movie to la in near future.. after hearing horror stories - I might just pay a visit for a month and stay up in good ol Seattle :~S
 
FWIW, if I ever get around to doing anything significant, and I acknowledge that may take the better part of the next decade, I have no intentions of trying to compete IN the Wood.

Screwwit.
The odds are just against any one individual.
One egg. Sixteen million sperm. That's a pretty low success rate.
One feature, sixteen million "Pick me! I can do it! Look... !" close-but-no-cigars. That's a pretty low success rate.

If I got any reeeeal talent I'll get noticed on the festival circuit or when some magical screenplay I write attracts an actor or two a distributor (Lionsgate, Magnet/Magnolia, Roadside, Sony, Weinstien, etc) will consider picking up.
If the Brother's Strause with all their street cred couldn't get a distributor until after principal photography was done plus a fair bit of in house post-work then I have no illusions of "I can do it"!

I think you really need some super duper sh!t to make anyone notice you more than a L.A. second.
Fifteen minutes of fame is an eternity out there. Better take a picture. It'll last longer.

Do the Woody Allen. Big Fish little pond. All the way. Flat Earth and all that.

GL & Peace


EDIT: I think Murdock's suggestion is the most sane thing to do.
If there are mini-major studios then I don't see why not there can't be mini-HWoods.
 
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Wow. Thanks, everybody, for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

I've done enough internet for the day. I'm off to enjoy my day off from work. I'll be sure to consider everything everybody has mentioned, as well as anything anyone else might mention in the future. Ya'll sure do make some convincing arguments for me to stay pat, in RVA (this city is kinda awesome, I ain't gonna lie).

Also, please, anybody feel free to "derail" this thread, from this point out. So far, it's been a question of whether I move West, or make the feature first. But if anyone else is having similar thoughts (as a couple people have mentioned), let's feel free to take this conversation wherever it needs to go, in relation to people moving/not moving.

Cheers!

P.S. Flicker - you can bet your bottom-dollar that there will be a day when I'll take you up on your offer for a couch for a few days. Thanks!
 
Repeating what's probably already been said, I say make the 2nd feature first. You're more likely to get funding where you are, and shooting in LA will make everything vastly more expensive.
 
I think some of you are exaggerating the cost of living in CA.

My absolute bare minimum cost of living per month is $1200. What's yours.

Mine includes:
370 Rent
xxx..Electricity (included in rent)
xxx..Water(included in rent)
030 Gas-house
160 Gas-car
045 Cell phone
075 Net/phone
085 Insurance-car x2
433 Food

$1198

and no I don't live in government housing.:)
 
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