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watch SHORT: Fallen

MileCreations

MileCreations

Fallen SHORT SYNOPSIS:
Bonnie and James run away from home when their parents start fighting and embark on a series of adventures in the bush.

So this is my latest film, I've had it finished for a while but have not been allowed to show it for some reason. Officially it is my year 12 final media submission.

If you plan on watching it don't read this whole thread yet as there are a few spoilers! :)


Link to film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJOsRWuEJg

FallenPoster.png


Link to film facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/MileCreations

This is my third 'major' film that I have created.

Any tips on anything cinemeatography/story/acting/music/locations/lighting are greatly appreciated

Thanks again
Brendan :)
 
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The part with the snake was particularly awesome! How'd you arrange the various shots for that? :eek:

Your camerawork has stepped way up since your last project, btw. :cool:

Also, how many crew did you lose to Dropbears during production?
 
Zensteve said:
The part with the snake was particularly awesome! How'd you arrange the various shots for that? :eek:

Your camerawork has stepped way up since your last project, btw. :cool:

Also, how many crew did you lose to Dropbears during production?
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Here's the behind the scenes if anyone wants to take a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESCmuvQybjE

Thanks! Well, to put simply, my actress was willing to be put face to face with it, so there is actually no illusion or special effect in that scene. The only thing is that when it cuts to the man shots it was a completely different location because the snake scenes had to be done at the owners house.

All the crew survived :P
 
Holy crap, that's a mature piece of work. Well put together. Emotionally resonant. Thanks. You'll do alright ;)
 
yea the snake part was cool...liked the ending to when the mom opens the door and its
just the 2 kids and the man disappears
...
 
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An accomplished piece of work for a student, so much so, that you're obviously more than ready to progress, because your story telling abilities are being hampered. The strength of your story and image capture/editing is now serving to highlight the weaknesses in the other areas of your filmmaking.

Relying on music to fulfil the audio side of the storytelling for almost the entirety of the narrative has resulted in "mickey-mousing" (this is actually a technical term), which is where the music mimics/follows too closely the visual action. Mickey-Mousing was realised to be an ineffective technique in the 1930s and assiduously avoided since then. This isn't helped by the fact the music is quite inappropriate in places, as is the sound design.

For example, at the beginning: The music is easy, subdued and without pace or energy and the LPF (low pass filter) on the dialogue implies distance and/or unimportance. Just watching your short, the perception is that the children aren't getting enough attention from their parents and leave the kitchen out of sheer boredom. This is in complete contrast to your synopsis, which states the children run away (escape) from their parents fighting.

Just using the opening as an example: I would have had the parents acting a little more animated, with at least raised voices, if not some shouting. In one of the shots I would have had a kettle boiling in the background or the boy playing with an old toy car (for example). In audio post the raised/shouting voices could be processed to make them sound even harsher, the whistle of the kettle or squeaking of say a rusty toy car could be added to create dissonance and even more unpleasantness in the sound. The sound could evolve and build up to the point when the children run away or be further processed and layered to give the feeling that the audience is hearing the scene from one of the children's point of view. The goal of the sound design would be to give the children something to run away from and even more importantly, to give the audience something they would want to run away from! Not only would the sound design now aid the story, rather than hamper it, it would involve the audience personally, which is an immeasurably more powerful and effective storytelling technique!

This is obviously just an example of one scene and just one view of how the storytelling could be enhanced with sound design. This basic philosophy, when applied to the rest of your film and combined with the appropriate use on occasion of music will drastically improve the dramatic and emotional impact of your work.

G
 
knightly said:
Holy crap, that's a mature piece of work. Well put together. Emotionally resonant. Thanks. You'll do alright ;)
Click to expand...

Someone dug this up from somewhere :P How'd you refind this?

wheatgrinder said:
fantastic! Another genius in the making here!
Click to expand...

Thanks very much!! :)

AudioPostExpert said:
Just using the opening as an example: I would have had the parents acting a little more animated, with at least raised voices, if not some shouting. In one of the shots I would have had a kettle boiling in the background or the boy playing with an old toy car (for example). In audio post the raised/shouting voices could be processed to make them sound even harsher, the whistle of the kettle or squeaking of say a rusty toy car could be added to create dissonance and even more unpleasantness in the sound. The sound could evolve and build up to the point when the children run away or be further processed and layered to give the feeling that the audience is hearing the scene from one of the children's point of view. The goal of the sound design would be to give the children something to run away from and even more importantly, to give the audience something they would want to run away from! Not only would the sound design now aid the story, rather than hamper it, it would involve the audience personally, which is an immeasurably more powerful and effective storytelling technique!

This is obviously just an example of one scene and just one view of how the storytelling could be enhanced with sound design. This basic philosophy, when applied to the rest of your film and combined with the appropriate use on occasion of music will drastically improve the dramatic and emotional impact of your work.

G
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Thanks for this advice! After editing that opening scene I knew it needed more and wished that it went longer. As I'm not an audio expert when I added the 'low pass' that was just me chucking on filters and hoping for the best till I got a sound I liked. They were actually yelling, but I didn't want to audience to be able to tell what they were actually saying because I decided it wasn't important to the story.
 
Just cruising around? Don't quite know... I think I was in the screening area and saw it and clicked... sometimes I do so randomly just to see something I've missed. Or it was linked somewhere else -- don't quite recall. Oh... T2i/T3i thread.
 
Hey Man, Nice Effort!

I have a few questions, it may be because of my ignorance though haha.

What was the idea behind the man, i'm assuming he's some sort of guardian angel, would i be correct?

And also i personally found the snake, although cool! a bit unnecessary... was there a reason behind that that i'm not picking up on?

Some of the acting wasn't phenomenal, but i understand that you used what you had, and you did a good job with that.

Cinematography, i personally would have liked to have seen it a little more controlled, but hey, that's totally just a personal thing haha.

One particular thing i noticed that could have been stronger is the action of the kids when their parents are fighting.

I feel it was a little comedic with them hiding under the bench, maybe a stronger more dramatic scene could have shown them playing in their room or something with the screaming of their parents affecting them to the point that they run away.

Other than that, for a year 12 film, the storytelling ability is quite strong, and it'll be great to see you trying more and more experimental things as you mature as a film maker!
 
knightly said:
Just cruising around? Don't quite know... I think I was in the screening area and saw it and clicked... sometimes I do so randomly just to see something I've missed. Or it was linked somewhere else -- don't quite recall. Oh... T2i/T3i thread.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah I totally forgot about that thread, and it was only a few days ago!

The Liberator said:
Hey Man, Nice Effort!

I have a few questions, it may be because of my ignorance though haha.

What was the idea behind the man, i'm assuming he's some sort of guardian angel, would i be correct?

And also i personally found the snake, although cool! a bit unnecessary... was there a reason behind that that i'm not picking up on?

Some of the acting wasn't phenomenal, but i understand that you used what you had, and you did a good job with that.

Cinematography, i personally would have liked to have seen it a little more controlled, but hey, that's totally just a personal thing haha.

One particular thing i noticed that could have been stronger is the action of the kids when their parents are fighting.

I feel it was a little comedic with them hiding under the bench, maybe a stronger more dramatic scene could have shown them playing in their room or something with the screaming of their parents affecting them to the point that they run away.

Other than that, for a year 12 film, the storytelling ability is quite strong, and it'll be great to see you trying more and more experimental things as you mature as a film maker!
Click to expand...

The man depends on how deep you take the story, on a casual level he is some form of guardian angel. If you wanted to take a deeper level its the same but the snake is a link towards evil and say the devil. Also the boy 'drowns' but gets born again..

So that's the reason behind the snake as well, however even without that I think it's an easily plausible danger of being in the bush, as I have experienced to a degree myself.

I was happy with the acting considering one was a first timer and the other had only done theatre work :)

As I said I think in my previous comment, the opening didnt really turn out as well as imagined and after editing it there were so many things I think I could have done differently with it. While I don't ever consider myself a comedic person I've strangely often had people after reading my screenplays ask if it was comedy which is certainly not what I'm aiming for :/

Thanks!!
 
MileCreations said:
Oh yeah I totally forgot about that thread, and it was only a few days ago!



The man depends on how deep you take the story, on a casual level he is some form of guardian angel. If you wanted to take a deeper level its the same but the snake is a link towards evil and say the devil. Also the boy 'drowns' but gets born again..

So that's the reason behind the snake as well, however even without that I think it's an easily plausible danger of being in the bush, as I have experienced to a degree myself.

I was happy with the acting considering one was a first timer and the other had only done theatre work :)

As I said I think in my previous comment, the opening didn't really turn out as well as imagined and after editing it there were so many things I think I could have done differently with it. While I don't ever consider myself a comedic person I've strangely often had people after reading my screenplays ask if it was comedy which is certainly not what I'm aiming for :/

Thanks!!
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Ok, cool.

yeah, don't worry about the comedic stuff too much, different people interpret things differently, it was just an odd way of covering that action and didn't feel like it fit with the rest of the film, everything else stuck to the feel, so it's no huge issue, just something to note for the next one.

It's cool having some metaphors in there, it's more obvious now that you tell me, but the reason why i didn't pick up on it is because i don't think it was really a necessary thing to put in the story, it seems like a bit of an afterthought. she's running to help her brother not running away from evil. so facing evil was never something she had to overcome, y'know?

But hey, it's a reasonably tight little film, not too big in scale for it's length etc. which is great
 
The Liberator said:
Ok, cool.

yeah, don't worry about the comedic stuff too much, different people interpret things differently, it was just an odd way of covering that action and didn't feel like it fit with the rest of the film, everything else stuck to the feel, so it's no huge issue, just something to note for the next one.

It's cool having some metaphors in there, it's more obvious now that you tell me, but the reason why i didn't pick up on it is because i don't think it was really a necessary thing to put in the story, it seems like a bit of an afterthought. she's running to help her brother not running away from evil. so facing evil was never something she had to overcome, y'know?

But hey, it's a reasonably tight little film, not too big in scale for it's length etc. which is great
Click to expand...

It wasnt actually an after thought though, the whole original basis of the story was actually the falling in the water and the snake. The parents fighting and mysterious man and stuff were added later
 
MileCreations said:
After editing that opening scene I knew it needed more and wished that it went longer. As I'm not an audio expert when I added the 'low pass' that was just me chucking on filters and hoping for the best till I got a sound I liked. They were actually yelling, but I didn't want to audience to be able to tell what they were actually saying because I decided it wasn't important to the story.
Click to expand...

Sound design is largely about getting to the heart of the emotional impact of sound and using that to manipulate and involve the audience in the story. In this particular case, if you think about a yelling fight, there's a harsh component as well as a cadence to yelling. It's these yelling attributes which could have been emphasised and layered with a screaming kettle (for example) to create something maybe a little surreal but still recognisable as a yelling fight, without understanding the actual words but unpleasant enough to want to run away from.

I realise that what I'm suggesting is quite sophisticated sound design and that you probably don't have the equipment or interest in learning how to do sound design. As a director/filmmaker though, you need to know/learn at least the possibilities which sound design offers as a storytelling tool to involve the audience.

G
 
AudioPostExpert said:
Sound design is largely about getting to the heart of the emotional impact of sound and using that to manipulate and involve the audience in the story. In this particular case, if you think about a yelling fight, there's a harsh component as well as a cadence to yelling. It's these yelling attributes which could have been emphasised and layered with a screaming kettle (for example) to create something maybe a little surreal but still recognisable as a yelling fight, without understanding the actual words but unpleasant enough to want to run away from.

I realise that what I'm suggesting is quite sophisticated sound design and that you probably don't have the equipment or interest in learning how to do sound design. As a director/filmmaker though, you need to know/learn at least the possibilities which sound design offers as a storytelling tool to involve the audience.

G
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The kettle (or similar annoying sound) is a good idea and I will be keeping that in mind if I shoot a similar scene again.

I don't have the equipment exactly (have a Zoom h4n and Rode Shotgun ntg2) but I do have basic level interest, maybe I might be better off saying respect, for the role that sound design plays in a film.

Once again thanks for the advice
-Brendan
 
MileCreations said:
It wasnt actually an after thought though, the whole original basis of the story was actually the falling in the water and the snake. The parents fighting and mysterious man and stuff were added later
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I'm not trying to offend you in any way, I'm just offering my opinion, take it or leave it haha.

If i were to give you any advice on this snake business - just for future reference - it would be something film makers tend to say a lot: "sometimes you have to kill your babies"

Film makers are known to get attached to an idea (i've done it many times!) and although it may have been what inspired you to make the film, sometimes these things become irrelevant, and they have to be cut because it's not progressing the story.

But you can always save the idea for a time when it will work!

Think to yourself, "if the snake wasn't in this film... would the film still make sense" metaphors are great, but only when they are pushing home a point or progressing the story.

Having said all that, i may be misinterpreting the message, I'm not sure.

Anyway, it's just something to think about, if you think it's totally necessary, then by all means disregard what i've said!
 
I liked that the stakes were amped up with the girl running for help befalling her own potentially deadly difficulties.
 
The Liberator said:
I'm not trying to offend you in any way, I'm just offering my opinion, take it or leave it haha.

If i were to give you any advice on this snake business - just for future reference - it would be something film makers tend to say a lot: "sometimes you have to kill your babies"

Film makers are known to get attached to an idea (i've done it many times!) and although it may have been what inspired you to make the film, sometimes these things become irrelevant, and they have to be cut because it's not progressing the story.

But you can always save the idea for a time when it will work!

Think to yourself, "if the snake wasn't in this film... would the film still make sense" metaphors are great, but only when they are pushing home a point or progressing the story.

Having said all that, i may be misinterpreting the message, I'm not sure.

Anyway, it's just something to think about, if you think it's totally necessary, then by all means disregard what i've said!
Click to expand...

Yeah of course that's how I treat all advice :P

While that is a good point that we must "kill our babies" sometimes, if there's anything I've learnt from this production is that the snake worked. 90% of my positive feedback has been about the snake and it has made me glad I took the extra effort to get ahold of the man who owned it.

The girl couldn't just run away from the creek and then find her brother or something, she had to endure more. Yes she got out of it too easily with the strange man, but I personally can't justify the scene not existing. Of course, like all art, it's variable personal opinion :) hence why I hate Justin Beiber but my neighbor adores him :weird:

EmilyNancyJean said:
Holy cow! That is awesome! :O She is mighty brave haha.

Lovely short film, very mature :) I like especially liked the running through the tall grass shot.
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Exactly why I chose her as the actress! Thanks :)
 
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