Scene location - near one's house - how to write them?

[Inarius]

I need to write a scene which happens near one's house. Should I write:

EXT. NEAR MAX'S HOUSE - NIGHT

or

EXT. A STREET NEAR MAX'S HOUSE - NIGHT

or

EXT. ENTRANCE TO MAX'S HOUSE - NIGHT

or what?

P.S. I know that the 3rd option sound good, but the characters on the scene are NOT standing near the entrance - they walk TOWARDS the entrance, and only at the end of the scene they get there.

 

[Inarius]

It has nothing to do with social status,

Of course it is. It's not fucked up, it just simple math. If 10X people want to become screenwriters/directors/producers/actors or whatever, but the industry needs only X people, what should they do? Very simple - filter. I'm not saying they reject people because of social status - I'm saying they make it difficult for people with low social status. Thus, out of 10X people, something like 5X or more give up, simply because they must work every day to survive. They say, - "I have no time for assaulting the industry, need to pay my debts"... And this is exactly what the industry wants - less noobs to deal with.

Example? Sure. Many agencies don't accept email queries, so you have to snail mail them. It costs time and money. Especially money, if you're sending to many agencies. And sometimes you have to not go to job one or more days to do that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you have at least two (continuous) scenes in this sequence.

INT. INSIDE CAR
Max drives like a crazy person.
Realises he's being pulled by a cop, slows down, winds down the window, speaks to the cop

EXT. OUTSIDE THE CAR
The cop leads Max to the police car.

There could possibly be an INT/EXT scene in the middle, where Max is inside the car talking to the cop through the open window, but that might be too fiddly to bother with.

"The cop leads Max to the police car", - is what the people in the car see. It's actually the ending of the scene, when they see the cop leading Max to the car.

 

[Birdman]

Of course it is. It's not fucked up, it just simple math. If 10X people want to become screenwriters/directors/producers/actors or whatever, but the industry needs only X people, what should they do? Very simple - filter. I'm not saying they reject people because of social status - I'm saying they make it difficult for people with low social status. Thus, out of 10X people, something like 5X or more give up, simply because they must work every day to survive. They say, - "I have no time for assaulting the industry, need to pay my debts"... And this is exactly what the industry wants - less noobs to deal with.
r.

I'm sorry, Inarius, but there is no smoking gun or diabolical plan set in place to limit the number of script writers. If an "unknown" writes a script that will generate big time money, then Hollywood will buy it. When money is in play, that is the #1 priority (not being a member of their secret club ).

Here's an example of this fucked up industry:

(Link)

"If the intention is to move the camera from interior to exterior (or vice versa) in a single, uninterrupted shot, this may be noted in the scene heading. The correct prefix is “INT/EXT.” (with no period before the slash), not “I/E.” This is often a tracking shot. If so, it should also be designated as such in the scene heading:"

...So here's yet ANOTHER version of the proper use for "interior / exterior". This particular "Professional" has a completely different take on how to handle the situation you are dealing with. He even goes as far to say that using I/E. Is incorrect.

So now you have no less than THREE DIFFERENT PROFESSIONAL VERSIONS of how to properly handle a shot dealing with interior / exterior.

Now the question, Inarious:


...Which way do you use it in your screenplay to where the reader doesn't instantly think, "uh oh, Noob writer!"?

Which way, Inarius? ...tell me !

You can't answer the question not because it's a secretive industry designed to limit the number of script writers. You can't answer because ...it's a fucked up industry!

- Birdman

 

[Inarius]

Birdman, you don't understand what I mean. I didn't say there are conspiracies and plans. No. I'm talking about opening doors, giving opportunities. They go bunker. And the problem of many different ways of formatting screenplays, is because the industry wouldn't bother itself giving a proper guide to the crowd. Why should they? They don't need millions of screenwriters.

Now about the "Behold... The Noob Writer" thing. I'm sure there are those who see if a writer is noob or not. If so, why should they tell people how "not to look a noob"? Why should they surrender such an advantage?

 

[directorik]

Birdman, you don't understand what I mean. I didn't say there are conspiracies and plans. No. I'm talking about opening doors, giving opportunities. They go bunker.

Not true. They do not "go bunker". New writers break in every day.
There is no block to new writers.

And the problem of many different ways of formatting screenplays, is because the industry wouldn't bother itself giving a proper guide to the crowd. Why should they? They don't need millions of screenwriters.

There are only six "rules" for proper format. Everything else is
style. There are several very good guides out there for proper
format.

Now about the "Behold... The Noob Writer" thing. I'm sure there are those who see if a writer is noob or not. If so, why should they tell people how "not to look a noob"? Why should they surrender such an advantage?

The "they" you refer to are fellow writers who tell people that their
style is the proper "format" and if you don't do it their way you will
be considered a "noob". I've been one of those dreaded "readers"
for years - I've been in the trenches - I can tell you most of the things
"they" say is incorrect. Scripts are not tossed because of style issues.
And the industry is not closed to new writers.

 

[Inarius]

Not true. They do not "go bunker". New writers break in every day.

Every day? When many producers/directors would write the screenplays themselves, rather than paying someone to do that?

 

[directorik]

Every day? When many producers/directors would write the screenplays themselves, rather than paying someone to do that?

Yes. Every day.

Many producers and directors are also writers. Many more producers and directors
look for scripts. ProdCo's and studios are always looking for writers. Some of those
writers end up directing and/or producing.

New writers break in every day.

 

[Inarius]

Many producers and directors are also writers.

That's what I'm saying! Why would those producers/directors need writers?

 

[sfoster]

That's what I'm saying! Why would those producers/directors need writers?

For collaboration. christopher nolan gets writer credit but so do a couple other people that he works with

 

[Birdman]

BEHOLD!! ...Opinion #5 on the use of INT/EXT:

SimplyScripts

"It's generally considered poor form to use INT/EXT in combination in a slug line. If the action of a scene shifts from INT to EXT, or EXT to INT, write a new slug line. If you find yourself in a situation where you're inter-cutting rapidly between an INT and an EXT location, chances are you're usurping the job of the director by writing HOW your story should be filmed rather than simply telling your story in a compelling fashion."

How you like them apples, Inarius?

If I try to say some shit is happening on the outside and inside, I'm somehow cheating the director out of all of his fun. You just can't win! Of course, as FantasySciFi pointed out earlier, the director supposedly will "ignore" whatever you type in anyway.

How's about opinion #6 on the use of INT/EXT:

Scripped-dot-com

IN AND OUT
For scenes taking place at locations that exist both inside and outside (like an automobile on a highway) you would choose the SCENE HEADING abbreviation "I/E." indicating INTERIOR/EXTERIOR.

...According to these people, if you're driving your car on a road you should use I/E. I guess because you're thechnically "in" a car while driving "outside" on a road. Whatever the case, Scripped-dot-com earns the #6 spot on our "How not to look like a Noob" list.


So if we apply the averages based on these SIX DIFFERENT OPINIONS on how INT/EXT. is to be used (or not used) NO MATTER WHICH WAY I CHOOSE ....five out of six will consider me a Noob.

Again, ....this is a fucked up industry.

-Birdman

 

[directorik]

That's what I'm saying! Why would those producers/directors need writers?

I must be missing your point. There are few producers and directors
who are writers. There are many, many more producers and directors
who are not writers. Those people all hire writers.

You said, "They go bunker" saying "they" do not open doors giving
opportunities to new writers. If you are limiting your comment only to
the very few producers and directors who are also writers, then you may
have a point. Not that they "go bunker" just that they don't hire writers
because they are writers.

Is that who you are focusing on? The producers/directors who are also
writers? That's a very, very small percentage.

 

[directorik]

Birdman - that's a generalization. In general a new writer who is
cutting rapidly between an INT and an EXT is doing too much
editing on the page. Doesn't mean the script is tossed or that a
reader will see that writer as a "noob".

It might be helpful to remember that the chances are the script
any new writer is writing right now will not get made. It will be
a writing sample that will get the writer paying jobs. The minutia
isn't as important as people say it is.

But it sure freaks new writers out. the industry isn't fucked up.
People telling writers what to do is fucked up.

 

[Birdman]

But it sure freaks new writers out. the industry isn't fucked up.
People telling writers what to do is fucked up.

Okay, I'll agree with that philosophy to an extent. Unfortunately if I posted my screenplay (in this form or on a review website) for people to critique, five out of six will declare it "Noobish" because it doesn't match the way they FEEL it should.

All I want to do is GET IT RIGHT!!

I consider myself fairly smart. If there is a format rule I will obey it. If someone has a guide on how to layout a Title Page ...dammit, I'm going to do it! If there are certain "insider moves" that one should do to when formatting their script to look more "professional" ...then I want to do that too!

Unfortunately, (like with INT/EXT) I have to deal with six different opinions on what the "professional writers" do. Add the fact that just about every fucking script I read online is chocked full of "we see" and "Is", "are", and long-winded action diatribes. I saw one script that had "past tense" references in the action script.

In a programming language, you type shit in a certain way or the damned program won't run. Screenplay format is similar to programming languages ...so why can't there be a consensus among writers?

Lastly,

I just sent my script to a "Script Review Company". I'm paying them cash. I have bent over backwards to eliminate every possible error before I submitted my script. Now, on their website I see that I don't have my frickin' Title Page set up the way THEY say I should have. FinalDraft says I should do it the way I did ...but this place says I did it wrong.

So now I get to see part of the review I'm paying for correcting me on my Title Page setup.



Who the hell WOULDN'T be freaked out?

-Birdman

 

[DIY]

My mentor (who sold 2 scripts for real money) probably said it best, "There are people who have sold scripts and there are people who have never sold a script but advise/teach people how to write a screenplay." He only listened to the folks who have sold scripts.

My mentor is also a director and now that I'm trying to produce and direct my own film am I beginning to understand a lot of what he said, i.e. less is more. Sometimes you write things in that is there to make it easier for a producer or professional reader to understand. Many of those things a good director will cross out. One of the funny things he told me is to never write in the description any adjective/adverb ending with "-ly." No kidding, but I completely agree with that now.

Script doctors who have never sold a script? I wouldn't trust anything they said. I've submitted to Nichols in 3 years a script I kept improving (objectively). The best review I got was the first year I submitted and I know there were a bazillion errors in there. Austin put my last script (that Nicholls said was crap) in the top 10%.

 

[directorik]

In a programming language, you type shit in a certain way or the damned program won't runt. Screenplay format is similar to programming languages ...so why can't there be a consensus among writers?

Screenplay format is in no way similar to programming language. As
you point out if you don't do it right the program wont run. The screenplay
is a creative endeavor. There is a consensus on the six essential format
rules - the rest is opinion. And you'll never get all writers to have the
same opinion on style.

Case in point:

Unfortunately, (like with INT/EXT) I have to deal with six different opinions on what the "professional writers" do. Add the fact that just about every fucking script I read on line is chocked full of "we see" and "Is", "are", and long-winded action diatribes. I saw one script that had "past tense" references in the action script.

You see this because all those things are acceptable in a script. The general
advice is for new writers not to do those things not because it flags them as
a "noob" (although that's what "they" all say) but because new writers tend
to misuse, overuse and not fully understand why they are using them. And
they do it poorly.

I just sent my script to a "Script Review Company". I'm paying them cash. I have bent over backwards to eliminate every possible error before I submitted my script. Now, on their website I see that I don't have my frickin' Title Page set up the way THEY say I should have. FinalDraft says I should do it the way I did ...but this place says I did it wrong.

So now I get to see part of the review I'm paying for correcting me on my Title Page setup.

Who the hell WOULDN'T be freaked out?

Their goal is very different from the goal of a producer, director, studio,
exec or agent. They want your money and they feel they need to "correct"
you in order to earn their money. Producers, directors, studios, execs, agents
are looking for a script that will attract top talent and a paying audience.
They know the script will be rewritten over and over and over so none
of those format issues matter to them.

That INT/EXT or I/E scenes will be completely eliminated before it gets a
green lit to pre-production so it won't matter at all....

 

[rayw]

Producers, directors, studios, execs, agents
are looking for a script that will attract top talent and a paying audience.
They know the script will be rewritten over and over and over so none
of those format issues matter to them.

+1

Write good bones to your story.
That's all that'll remain after the pig goes through the python.

 

[Inarius]

What's the problem with "is", "are" or "...ly"?

 

[Birdman]

One of the funny things he told me is to never write in the description any adjective/adverb ending with "-ly." No kidding, but I completely agree with that now..

...Sorry, couldn't resist.

Roberto eating pizza

Roberto frantically eating pizza.


...Which version tells a better story? Which version lets the reader know more about the scene? Which version clues the reader into a motive behind eating the pizza? Is it someone else's pizza? Is it a pizza eating contest? Has Roberto not eaten in days?

I can understand keeping everything in present tense (for obvious reasons) but eliminating a whole category of words seems a little off the wall.

Screenplay format is in no way similar to programming language. As
you point out if you don't do it right the program wont run. The screenplay
is a creative endeavor. There is a consensus on the six essential format
rules - the rest is opinion. And you'll never get all writers to have the
same opinion on style.

...I do programming and I just did a movie script. At the skeletal level they ARE similar. There IS a pecking order and a specific chain of events

In a SLUGLINE, the INT. comes before the main setting, then a dash, then a sub-setting, then another dash, then "DAY or NIGHT", then another dash, and then TRAVELING or TRACKING if that happens to be going on at the time. You can't put "- DAY" at the beginning of the slugline. ...That's breaking the rules!

Right after the slug comes the "Action Block". You can't go to a character without a line of Action. That's a rule. After the action comes the ALL-CAP Character name. That's another rule. Dialogue follows directly after the character name. Viola! ...another rule!

Directorik, that IS similar to programming! In programming you define an object, followed by setting a function and then after that you set your variables. You can combine segments of programming script into an "array" just like you can combine short scenes into a "montage".

The biggest difference between programmers and script writers is that the programmers AGREE on the protocol so that everyone's programs are all dealing with the same set of rules. Whatever program they write is completely up to their own level of imagination as long as they follow the fundamental rules. The same SHOULD be said for Script Writing. We should be free to use our imaginations in our scripts as long as we follow a set of fundamental rules ...except nobody can agree on what the fundamental rules are!!!

That INT/EXT or I/E scenes will be completely eliminated before it gets a
green lit to pre-production so it won't matter at all....

...Maybe so, but I guarantee you somewhere in this multi-rewritten script there will be a character entering an interior setting from an exterior setting. How will they write it? If I have Roberto blasting Paul through the front door with a shotgun and then Roberto walking inside to blast away other people ...it's going to be an "Interior / Exterior" situation.

Are you suggesting that Mr. Director guy is just going to eliminate the scene? ..ALL of the scenes? How many scenes? If he eliminates them all ....why did he even buy my screenplay?

Write good bones to your story.
That's all that'll remain after the pig goes through the python.

Nothing tops off discussing how six different "professionals" can have six different rules for "Non-Noob Scripting" more than a Doomsday follow-up post reminding us all how unimportant we all are as scriptwriters.

-Birdman

 

[Birdman]

What's the problem with "is", "are" or "...ly"?

Answer for "Is":

"Joe is sitting at the bar."

Should be: "Joe sits at the bar"


Answer for "Are"

"Several bombs are exploding."

Should be: "Several bombs explode."



...As for the "ly" rule, I have no idea on that one.

-Birdman

 

[DIY]

Roberto eating pizza

Roberto frantically eating pizza.


...Which version tells a better story? Which version lets the reader know more about the scene? Which version clues the reader into a motive behind eating the pizza? Is it someone else's pizza? Is it a pizza eating contest? Has Roberto not eaten in days?

I can understand keeping everything in present tense (for obvious reasons) but eliminating a whole category of words seems a little off the wall.

I figured you would object to that (as I did once.)

I've explained this before, you are intruding into the jurisdiction of the director/actor. Roberto eating pizza is the correct way to write it. Simply put, the director/actor will choose how to act it out. Your explanations above are all none of the writer's business. By writing an adjective/adverb you are predisposing the reader to a certain way to portray the scene.

If you want a published expert to explain it, read Judith Weston's "Directing Actors" which has a section explaining why every director should cross out every adverb and adjective in a script's scene descriptions and blocking. It's a great book to read even if you are only planning on bing a writer. Probably worth more for your $$$ than a script reader.

 

[directorik]

We should be free to use our imaginations in our scripts as long as we follow a set of fundamental rules ...except nobody can agree on what the fundamental rules are!!!

There are six fundamental “rules” that everyone agrees on. Everything
else is personal style. Everything YOU mentioned ("we see" and "Is", "are",
and long-winded action diatribes) is style and not similar to programming.
Do those six and nothing else will be an issues to anyone who is actually
buying or optioning scripts. People who write books and blogs and articles
and "script review companies" taking your money have their opinions on
style. But they don't buy or option scripts.

Are you suggesting that Mr. Director guy is just going to eliminate the scene? ..ALL of the scenes? How many scenes? If he eliminates them all ....why did he even buy my screenplay?

I was making a broad generalization to illustrate my point that things will
chance in a script.

I have many stories regarding changes from actual experience as a writer
who has sold scripts to a writer who has been hired to re-write scripts. But
you're already freaked out enough.