PROMETHEUS Ridley Scott prequel
- Thread starter Scoopicman
- Start date
I have to say that I enjoyed it as well. I saw it in 2D and found the opening scenes majestic. I will get around to seeing it in 3D as well.
I have most of the same questions that have been posted here but have another to add.
Why was Guy Pearce cast as Weyland? wouldn't you just cast an older actor rather than trying to make someone in their 30's look ancient? There were no scenes in the movie where he was his real age.
I have most of the same questions that have been posted here but have another to add.
Why was Guy Pearce cast as Weyland? wouldn't you just cast an older actor rather than trying to make someone in their 30's look ancient? There were no scenes in the movie where he was his real age.
For those of you asking why - here's something from the near future, 2023. Some of the stories young Mr. Weyland recounts may be familiar to those who have just seen the film...
http://youtu.be/S7YK2uKxil8
gelder
http://youtu.be/S7YK2uKxil8
gelder
Don --I'm sorry, Don. I didn't mean to suggest anything critical or negative about what you posted being spoilers or anything like that whatsoever. I only meant that your bringing the subject up gave me an excuse, so to speak, to ask questions about it or to discuss it. =) Great comments.
Isn't that cool? So maybe this sort of thing, featuring the younger Weyland, will turn up in the next movie or movies?
Someone said here, or did I read it in a paper, that Scott has suggested that there might be more than two movies...a trilogy. Is that information solid? If so, very cool.
LV-What?
This ^.
I'm not sure the fossilized Engineer in Alien, who had apparently been the victim of a chestburster of some sort or another, excludes the possibility of it being the same place as in Prometheus.
I've only done a little looking around elsewhere on the net. Of the posts I've read so far, there are those writing that Scott has made this or that definitive pronouncement on the matter. However, none of those that I've seen so far included a link to any such interview for the sake of corroboration. Can someone provide such a link or reference a legit article?
But I'm not making an argument that they are the same planets. I'm only asking questions and speculating.
Isn't that cool? So maybe this sort of thing, featuring the younger Weyland, will turn up in the next movie or movies?
Someone said here, or did I read it in a paper, that Scott has suggested that there might be more than two movies...a trilogy. Is that information solid? If so, very cool.
LV-What?
This ^.
I'm not sure the fossilized Engineer in Alien, who had apparently been the victim of a chestburster of some sort or another, excludes the possibility of it being the same place as in Prometheus.
Didn't those other Engineers who had apparently been killed in some sort of a panic, probably due to being attacked by their own biological weapons, also look fossilized?
I've only done a little looking around elsewhere on the net. Of the posts I've read so far, there are those writing that Scott has made this or that definitive pronouncement on the matter. However, none of those that I've seen so far included a link to any such interview for the sake of corroboration. Can someone provide such a link or reference a legit article?
But I'm not making an argument that they are the same planets. I'm only asking questions and speculating.
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Richy, I finally saw it today. I enjoyed every minute of the movie. Definitely a glorious watch that had me feeling like I was on this other "LV" planet.
Script suffered from basic character problems: No Save The Cat characters! No one to truly root and get excited for (except Shaw and the Captain at the very end). Of course, people like David, because he is discovering and learning the most. But how do you root for someone who is the cause of such contagion and pain?
Lack of a true conflict battle and clear goal. When Sarah Connor finally kills the Terminator, the audience is pumped - "Yeah!" Same with Ripley defeating the Alien and then the Queen, in the first two ALIEN flicks. Any conflict that happens in PROMETHEUS is not fully built up or drawn out - "He's coming for you..." BAM! Squid grab and it's over.
That said, there is something so "dry" about Ridley Scott's handling of this, that I also appreciate how non-Hollywood that feels, if a bit flat at times. I'll be seeing this one again!
Script suffered from basic character problems: No Save The Cat characters! No one to truly root and get excited for (except Shaw and the Captain at the very end). Of course, people like David, because he is discovering and learning the most. But how do you root for someone who is the cause of such contagion and pain?
Lack of a true conflict battle and clear goal. When Sarah Connor finally kills the Terminator, the audience is pumped - "Yeah!" Same with Ripley defeating the Alien and then the Queen, in the first two ALIEN flicks. Any conflict that happens in PROMETHEUS is not fully built up or drawn out - "He's coming for you..." BAM! Squid grab and it's over.
That said, there is something so "dry" about Ridley Scott's handling of this, that I also appreciate how non-Hollywood that feels, if a bit flat at times. I'll be seeing this one again!
Oh, dang! I forgot to just enjoy the movie. Thanks for the advice.
If this conversation ain't your cup of tea, you're free to just stay out of it.
I just finished watching Aliens, and I'm ready to deliver my final verdict (for whatever that's not worth) on the question of whether or not Prometheus takes place on the same planet, and
I feel confident that they do not.
I don't know who the heck was dumb enough to argue that Alien and Aliens might not have taken place on the same planet. That's just something I read on a couple nerdy forums, recently, and I have absolutely no clue how they could think that. Alien and Aliens definitely take place on the same planet.
LV-426 is only ever mentioned in Aliens, and as I said before, we can't assume that Scott gives a shit about staying consistent with anything that happens in any movie other than Alien. However, it would seem really weird to me that Scott would follow the same naming system (LV-___), if he wasn't recognizing Aliens as part of the official cannon of the Alien/Prometheus story.
Besides all that, it's also true that on LV-426, humans were actively terraforming. But in Prometheus, on LV-223, it was already fully terraformed, by a non-human technology.
On a related, but side-note, everyone can stop mentioning "fossilized" remains in any of the movies. There are none. I honestly don't say this to be a dick, but if you think there are any fossils in any of the movies, you just don't know what a fossil is. Fossilization takes a LLLOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG time. The "space jockey" in Alien is definitely NOT anything even remotely resembling a fossil. That's just an old, dusty space-suit.
I don't know who the heck was dumb enough to argue that Alien and Aliens might not have taken place on the same planet. That's just something I read on a couple nerdy forums, recently, and I have absolutely no clue how they could think that. Alien and Aliens definitely take place on the same planet.
LV-426 is only ever mentioned in Aliens, and as I said before, we can't assume that Scott gives a shit about staying consistent with anything that happens in any movie other than Alien. However, it would seem really weird to me that Scott would follow the same naming system (LV-___), if he wasn't recognizing Aliens as part of the official cannon of the Alien/Prometheus story.
Besides all that, it's also true that on LV-426, humans were actively terraforming. But in Prometheus, on LV-223, it was already fully terraformed, by a non-human technology.
On a related, but side-note, everyone can stop mentioning "fossilized" remains in any of the movies. There are none. I honestly don't say this to be a dick, but if you think there are any fossils in any of the movies, you just don't know what a fossil is. Fossilization takes a LLLOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG time. The "space jockey" in Alien is definitely NOT anything even remotely resembling a fossil. That's just an old, dusty space-suit.
It's stated in the first movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TZlVQZFjvE
Captain Dallas - "Alien lifeform. Been dead a long time. Fossilized."
True, but an ignorant screenwriter/director/producer/editor/etc mistake anyone with a public education ought to have flagged all along.
Mummified, perhaps likely yes.
Calcified, maybe so.
Fossilized, as in "an ocean bottom of sediment poured into the space jockey's ship, dried out, organic material deteriorates and the cast negative pocket filled up with minerals over time, and the substrate all magically eroded away to expose the fossilized space jockey", not likely.
Will likely go see it this Friday or Saturday.
LV-426
LV-226
For the life in me I don't understand what's so complicated over this issue.
http://www.google.com/webhp?source=....,cf.osb&fp=281f5fbf74ffa19b&biw=1599&bih=809
LV-426 ship
Source:
http://www.zen171398.zen.co.uk/Alien.html
LV-226 ship
Source:
http://skiddydrongo.blogspot.com/
LV-426 space jockey
LV-226 space jockey
Source:
http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/4634
Yeah. We should.
http://texaslipstickmassacre.blogspot.com/2012/03/prometheus-full-trailer-has-space.html
http://scifiblock.com/news/2009-10-...l-to-be-set-too-far-back-for-space-jockey.htm
http://www.scriptflags.com/2010/10/alien-prequel-secret-of-space-jockey.html
http://studiogekko.blogspot.com/2011/12/prometheus.html
http://studiogekko.blogspot.com/2012_01_01_archive.html
http://www.chamberofreviews.com/movie-review-alien-1979/
http://www.pajiba.com/seriously_ran...-you-rethinking-that-space-shuttle-ticket.php
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31362852@N06/7208371066/
http://bookofaliens.blogspot.com/
http://www.elsolitariodeprovidence.com/2012/04/prometheus-imagenes-en-hd-y-16-cosas.html
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Oh, dang! I forgot to just enjoy the movie. Thanks for the advice.
If this conversation ain't your cup of tea, you're free to just stay out of it.
I'm glad I could help.
You should go take a nap.
For some people analyzing a movie and it's relation to other movies in
that franchise IS enjoying the movie.
I have fully enjoyed the analyzing I'm reading here. Much more than
the movie which I thought was terrible.
So Prometheus did 51.1 million for the weekend. How is that? Good enough? But sounds like many of us here plan to see it again, so that's good news, right? Repeat patronage is what really allows a film to succeed, isn't it? I mean, even with its flaws, I'm hoping they make enough money so that they make more films. Because, even with its flaws, this really is sci-fi on an ambitious scale...meaning, painting on a large canvas, asking some big questions, etc.
Directorik, I'm sad to hear it was terrible for you. =( But the more I think on them, the more the flaws do bother me too.
Scoopicman, awesome. I think I'll probably go see it again, too.
Ray, going by those comparisons, it seems to be settled.
On the other hand... =)
Trust me, I do feel a bit silly making these long posts, and I'm sure it does make me a bit silly. But like Directorik said, and if I may embellish a little, it's a fine way to geek-out and enjoy the film. =)
Directorik, I'm sad to hear it was terrible for you. =( But the more I think on them, the more the flaws do bother me too.
Scoopicman, awesome. I think I'll probably go see it again, too.
Ray, going by those comparisons, it seems to be settled.
On the other hand... =)
They don't have to be the same ship or the same space jockey. Indeed, a poster on another fan forum claimed that when asked, Ridley Scott said that he felt that they are different ships, same planet. Of course there are other posters claiming that he's said things to the opposite effect...but none of them (That I've seen so far. Mileage may vary) post links or cite articles with actual quotes from the man himself.
I can't argue for or against either hypothesis because I simply don't know what the filmmakers intend. The facts either way (them that I've heard) do not seem conclusive to me ...yet.
Although, as Cracker has pointed out, Scott has said that he plans on filling in more holes that might set-up Alien more specifically.
But I guess what I feel is is that I guess that I think that I'd probably (Haha! What very poor sentence construction!) prefer that they are the same planet. And the reason I (can only) suspect that I won't like the alternative is that the alternative seems wholly inelegant to me. Why not cinch up the tie-in right here, right now in this (hopefully) first film? It could(a) be(en) nice, neat, and elegant that way. Show: here, this is how the time bomb, the booby trap was inadvertently left for the crew of the Nostromo to stumble upon (or be sent by the company to be the victims of).
Having dealt with that in Prometheus, Scott could have dusted his hands off, could have speeded away, to infinity and beyond, to explore strange new worlds in the Alien(ish) Universe with the Alien 1979 set-up having been settled. Isn't that what we've been led to believe he wants to do (that is, the former part)?
So there are some key similarities between Alien and Prometheus that would make it handy for them to just be the same planet.
a. There's a little planet prone to dust-stormy weather. With what we are shown and what we can see, depending upon the weather, they could easily be the same planet.
b. There's a derelict Space Jockey spaceship --or spaceships.
c. There's the entrance upon the stage of the xenomorph that we're all familiar with and we're probably expecting (or at least it's very similar).
d. The xenomorph is now seemingly left alone and free to make eggs.
[That brings up more interesting questions. Is it a queen? But, as you know if you've seen those ten minutes that didn't make it into the final cut of Alien, the original makers of Alien -including Scott, of course- did not see Alien reproduction the same way that Cameron interjected into the Alien mythos with Aliens. Even so, how could that sole xenomorph make so many eggs? In those lost ten minutes of Alien the xenomorph seems to need one victim per egg created. And that would be another discrepancy and difficulty for the ending of Prometheus to fit nicely with Alien. Yes, another strike against it being one and the same planet]
e. The heroine leaves a warning signal broadcasting to ward visitors away.
[So there are discrepancies between the warning signal in Prometheus and the one in Alien that make them difficult to reconcile nicely. But they’re not insurmountable. I won't here go into how I think that could be okay.]
But otherwise, if it is a different planet, and the filmmakers still want to and intend to address the Alien 1979 set-up, the filmmakers will have to provide us with almost the same scenario with the same circumstances yet again. In life, in general, I hate to use the word boring, but won't that be boring? Or how about tedious...or dull? Like...been there, done that?
Hopefully, as I'm writing this, if that's the case, those brilliant writers and filmmakers already have a brilliant narrative arc that will do the Alien set-up thing (again, if that's their intention) that will not be tedious, will be elegant, and will be satisfying, in which case I will have to acknowledge (and I will do so gladly) that I was wrong to doubt.
But it's not exactly like I am doubting them. I'm only doubting them if they have, in fact, not already gotten 'er done and already given us the set-up for Alien. If they haven't, and that's still to come, again, I will be very pleased to find out how wrong I was to find fault with the it’s another planet, Dummy, scenario.
It occurs to me that the best case scenario might be that they have not and have no intention to do a specific lead into Alien. They've shown us how the xenomorphs were brought into the world and that's probably enough. The details of what planet is what and how the space jockey and his cargo of xenomorphs end up on the planetoid which the Nostromo crew visits are tales left to be told, told another day, or perhaps not told at all. That too would probably be fairly elegant.
[Edit: a later addition]
Here’s a two planet scenario that I think doesn’t sound too bad:
The space jockey in Alien is from the same planet and military installation as the one found by the Prometheus crew. He is the one or one of the ones who manages to get to a ship and take off for Earth, or for wherever, after the accident in which their biological weapons escape(?) and turn on them. Unfortunately for him, one or more of the xenomorphs tags along and infects him. Or maybe he’s already impregnated when he leaves. Before he is killed, he crashes, or lands, or crash lands on a planet that happens to be a lot like the one he just came from, the same one seen in Prometheus. He also leaves a warning beacon against visitors…not to warn Earthlings, of course, but his own kind. Or maybe the ship does that for him.
Although, I think that that scenario would beg the question: Why wouldn’t he put it on auto pilot to Earth? Or, why wouldn’t it already be programmed to fly to Earth on its own in case of pilot failure? Maybe the xenomorphs damage the ship, for some reason, or without reason, such that the ship can go no further.
I guess that seems like a fine enough scenario.
[/Edit]
I can't argue for or against either hypothesis because I simply don't know what the filmmakers intend. The facts either way (them that I've heard) do not seem conclusive to me ...yet.
Although, as Cracker has pointed out, Scott has said that he plans on filling in more holes that might set-up Alien more specifically.
But I guess what I feel is is that I guess that I think that I'd probably (Haha! What very poor sentence construction!) prefer that they are the same planet. And the reason I (can only) suspect that I won't like the alternative is that the alternative seems wholly inelegant to me. Why not cinch up the tie-in right here, right now in this (hopefully) first film? It could(a) be(en) nice, neat, and elegant that way. Show: here, this is how the time bomb, the booby trap was inadvertently left for the crew of the Nostromo to stumble upon (or be sent by the company to be the victims of).
Having dealt with that in Prometheus, Scott could have dusted his hands off, could have speeded away, to infinity and beyond, to explore strange new worlds in the Alien(ish) Universe with the Alien 1979 set-up having been settled. Isn't that what we've been led to believe he wants to do (that is, the former part)?
So there are some key similarities between Alien and Prometheus that would make it handy for them to just be the same planet.
a. There's a little planet prone to dust-stormy weather. With what we are shown and what we can see, depending upon the weather, they could easily be the same planet.
b. There's a derelict Space Jockey spaceship --or spaceships.
c. There's the entrance upon the stage of the xenomorph that we're all familiar with and we're probably expecting (or at least it's very similar).
d. The xenomorph is now seemingly left alone and free to make eggs.
[That brings up more interesting questions. Is it a queen? But, as you know if you've seen those ten minutes that didn't make it into the final cut of Alien, the original makers of Alien -including Scott, of course- did not see Alien reproduction the same way that Cameron interjected into the Alien mythos with Aliens. Even so, how could that sole xenomorph make so many eggs? In those lost ten minutes of Alien the xenomorph seems to need one victim per egg created. And that would be another discrepancy and difficulty for the ending of Prometheus to fit nicely with Alien. Yes, another strike against it being one and the same planet]
e. The heroine leaves a warning signal broadcasting to ward visitors away.
[So there are discrepancies between the warning signal in Prometheus and the one in Alien that make them difficult to reconcile nicely. But they’re not insurmountable. I won't here go into how I think that could be okay.]
But otherwise, if it is a different planet, and the filmmakers still want to and intend to address the Alien 1979 set-up, the filmmakers will have to provide us with almost the same scenario with the same circumstances yet again. In life, in general, I hate to use the word boring, but won't that be boring? Or how about tedious...or dull? Like...been there, done that?
Hopefully, as I'm writing this, if that's the case, those brilliant writers and filmmakers already have a brilliant narrative arc that will do the Alien set-up thing (again, if that's their intention) that will not be tedious, will be elegant, and will be satisfying, in which case I will have to acknowledge (and I will do so gladly) that I was wrong to doubt.
But it's not exactly like I am doubting them. I'm only doubting them if they have, in fact, not already gotten 'er done and already given us the set-up for Alien. If they haven't, and that's still to come, again, I will be very pleased to find out how wrong I was to find fault with the it’s another planet, Dummy, scenario.
It occurs to me that the best case scenario might be that they have not and have no intention to do a specific lead into Alien. They've shown us how the xenomorphs were brought into the world and that's probably enough. The details of what planet is what and how the space jockey and his cargo of xenomorphs end up on the planetoid which the Nostromo crew visits are tales left to be told, told another day, or perhaps not told at all. That too would probably be fairly elegant.
[Edit: a later addition]
Here’s a two planet scenario that I think doesn’t sound too bad:
The space jockey in Alien is from the same planet and military installation as the one found by the Prometheus crew. He is the one or one of the ones who manages to get to a ship and take off for Earth, or for wherever, after the accident in which their biological weapons escape(?) and turn on them. Unfortunately for him, one or more of the xenomorphs tags along and infects him. Or maybe he’s already impregnated when he leaves. Before he is killed, he crashes, or lands, or crash lands on a planet that happens to be a lot like the one he just came from, the same one seen in Prometheus. He also leaves a warning beacon against visitors…not to warn Earthlings, of course, but his own kind. Or maybe the ship does that for him.
Although, I think that that scenario would beg the question: Why wouldn’t he put it on auto pilot to Earth? Or, why wouldn’t it already be programmed to fly to Earth on its own in case of pilot failure? Maybe the xenomorphs damage the ship, for some reason, or without reason, such that the ship can go no further.
I guess that seems like a fine enough scenario.
[/Edit]
Trust me, I do feel a bit silly making these long posts, and I'm sure it does make me a bit silly. But like Directorik said, and if I may embellish a little, it's a fine way to geek-out and enjoy the film. =)
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Geek out all you want buddy. Like direktorik, I'm enjoying the analysis a lot more than I did the movie. But I did enjoy the movie somewhat.
And now as I was just thinking about the movie, I realized I had some more questions. Maybe the questions mean that I didn't understand the movie at all, but here they are:
So that giant squid at the end is that thing that came out of Elizabeth's belly?
And she got pregnant with the squid because of that goop that was introduced into that drink to Charlie?
And she's supposed to be infertile?
What is the meaning of introducing these things together? It seems unnecessary. Why did the squid not grow inside charlie? It surely doesn't need a womb as we all know all it needs is something living. Had the two doctors not made love, would there be no squid?
And why couldn't Ridley Scott make a single character in this movie likeable enough to root for?
And she got pregnant with the squid because of that goop that was introduced into that drink to Charlie?
And she's supposed to be infertile?
What is the meaning of introducing these things together? It seems unnecessary. Why did the squid not grow inside charlie? It surely doesn't need a womb as we all know all it needs is something living. Had the two doctors not made love, would there be no squid?
And why couldn't Ridley Scott make a single character in this movie likeable enough to root for?
Thanks, Trueindie. =)
Wow, good questions. I dunno either.
Didn't you like Shaw?
=)
Yep, I believe the giant squid is the same one that came out of her uterus. She told the machine to kill it, essentially, but apparently it failed to do so. It was left in that room to grow.
Yes, I think the idea is that Charlie's man stuff, carrying the hostile organism, impregnated her.
Why that would be necessary is a very good point. But I suppose it works on a dramatic, and on a sort of titillating while exceedingly creepy and visceral level.
I don't recall if we hear enough about why she can't have children. Is it infertility or some other difficulty?
Yes, I think the idea is that Charlie's man stuff, carrying the hostile organism, impregnated her.
Why that would be necessary is a very good point. But I suppose it works on a dramatic, and on a sort of titillating while exceedingly creepy and visceral level.
I don't recall if we hear enough about why she can't have children. Is it infertility or some other difficulty?
Wow, good questions. I dunno either.
Didn't you like Shaw?
=)
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Oh, okay. Well then in that case, as Ray pointed out, that's just a screenwriter who doesn't know what it means for something to be fossilized. Either that, or the screenwriter knows what it means, but they wanted the character to not know what it means. Because that space jockey is definitely NOT fossilized. Whatever, I'm just doing some nerdy nit-picking.
Ray -- that pic you posted of the ship from LV-426 is a still taken from a moving picture -- it ends up resting in a position very similar to that of the ship on LV-223. By the way, you've been reading these spoilers, and you haven't yet seen the movie?!
And I have absolutely no problem with that (though I'm sorry the movie disappointed you).
Richy -- you list a great deal of reasons why it's easy to confuse LV-223 with LV-436, and those are the exact reasons why I assumed, all along, that they were the same planet. I don't think you would have to recreate the circumstances in order to recreate similar results, though. I trust that Scott & friends can think of an original story that will take us from where we are to where we need to be. The similarities in the endings would only have to be aesthetic. Personally, I appreciate the fact that Scott hasn't yet figured out how to bridge the gap, because to me, that's just proof that each movie would be created to be a stand-alone story.
Also in that interview, I think he makes it pretty clear that all the religious stuff in "Prometheus" is not just what some people find to be an annoying side-story; it's the whole damn story! And though he comes off as anti-organized-religion in this interview, in my opinion, the movie does not come off as such, but is really just an examination of how a lot of people take in the mystery of our existence.
Agreed. Yet look at the tips of the "horseshoe ships". Completely different structures = different ships.
FWIW, structures of that size, despite the scifi fantasy soup from which they are born, are probably custom built from ship to ship rather than built on a factory floor in interchangeable mass quantity.
And "Yes".
I'm an intelligence gathering entity.
A "Good" film doesn't rely on novel ideas to grab your money and let you go.
A "Good" film contains a proper structure that entertains you enough to keep watching it again and again despite knowing each and every act and line of dialog about to happen - but you watch it anyway.
Think of it like a girl.
There are girls you'd consider doinking - once.
You don't want a relationship, you just want to see 'em naked and then discard them. "Bah! I'm done with you."**
That sucks, but most guys understand the concept.
And then there are other girls.
You just find your mind preoccupied with them DESPITE knowing them inside and out.
"D@mnation! What is this effect you have upon me, woman?!"
It's called...
FWIW, when I write & produce a film I don't want your money once.
I want to write and produce a film that has your mind returning to it repeatedly and you and your buds can debate and discuss.
I would be tickled pink to create a universe so engaging that it fostered multiple forums into weeks and months long discussions over it.
I think this is simply beautiful.
Ridley Scott and company have done a good job here, even if the film is meh+.
** I've always loved the concept of bra-stuffing falsies.
You know, at some point some guy is going to think he's investing in product A and is going to soon discover he's getting product B.
That's not going to end good I suspect.
And to go out on a limb, virgin marriages are a terrible idea.
What happens when partner A "discovers" the attributes of partner B are... incompatible.
"Well... Don't you think you should have told me about that?"
"I didn't know it was going to be an issue."
"Well, it is an issue. And a pretty 'small' one at that!"
"F**k you."
"Not with THAT you ain't, buckaroo."
The ugly variant?
"You wanna put your what where?!"
"And wear the costume too!"
It's a big world out there.
http://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38977Whatever.
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Found another very informative video.