Pirated Music in Festivals
- Thread starter mrchicago
- Start date
LOGAN L Productions said:Stop making these outrageous comparisons (Murder to copyright infringement). I know the point you're making, but geez.
Let's assume that you also meant "(Olympics to Film Fest)" as an outrageous comparison - I can't speak on MrChicago's comparisons except to say that he is correct. Here's how the Olympics and a Films Fest are the same: THEY ARE BOTH COMPETITIONS!!! Competitions that competitors enter into with an understanding that if they break the rules, then they will suffer the consequences.
Since this film fest had a music licensing form (MrC told us it did), we can assume that it is against the rules of this fest to have unlicensed music in a film (whether it be an actor whistling "Oops I did it Again" or the entire score consisting of nothing but "The Thong Song"), thus if a fest participant has unlicensed music in his/her film then he/her has broken the rules, thus must suffer the consequences.
And if you think an Olympic athlete (or any other person that is competing for something) wouldn't turn in another athlete for rules violations, then you must not live on the same planet the rest of us do. If I did my darnedest to follow all rules and I lose to someone who didn't, how is it wrong for me to point out the rule breaking. Like MrC said, they're the one who broke the rules, not me.
I seriously do not understand your points at all. It's almost like you have been on the opposite end of a similar situation. You're so passionate about it.
Poke
I've just learned that life is better if you're not uptight about things. Just lay back and enjoy life...chill out and lighten up. live it to the fullest. I make films to have accomplished great art. Sure, I want to win awards, but it's not my priority in life. I just want people to enjoy my art. The world is screwed up and a lot has to be fixed, so I see this little dispute as insignificant and not worth fighting for. That's it. And I also think that you don't have to be a bad person to use illegal music...it's not the worse thing in the world. Infact, I sometimes think using illegal music is great (of course, breaking fest rules isn't..but still).
I'm also passionate about it because I see it as a huge social...wrong. I see my opinion as common sense, but I guess it's not so common.
pokewowplayer1 said:
I've never ever broken a festival rule...and never will. I just impathize with someone who has.
Also, I thought of this last example to illustrate how I feel to you. My friend back in Texas has an illegal immigrant living with him. It's illegal, some people would say it corrupts the economy (even though it has had the total opposite effect in Texas), he doesn't speak english, etc. Should I turn him in to the border patrol? This is a stretch, but I associate these feelings with my feelings toward this subject. Police know this stuff goes on, but they look the other way because Mexican and Texas cultures are so close, and they know that it's hard to make a living in Mexico, and it's not worth getting an illegal in trouble over.
Junior, the immigrant, is nice, he works hard, and he just didn't want to wait years to get in the U.S. to make money. So he stepped out of the way of the rules and took a "shortcut". The same thing applies to that "cheater". I don't cheat, but I understand his point of view. You see?
I hate it when an issue breaks up into different statements that have to be countered, but this issue has becaome that.
All of this is true. I, personally, would have thought to myself, "Self, next time make your movie so good that no one can beat you." I'm not saying MrC's movie ain't good, I'm just agreeing that it might not be the best use of energy to try and get the "Cheater" kicked out of the competition.
No, but it's still fundamentally wrong. That's my argument in a nutshell. MrC has a right to do what he did cause the other guy did something wrong. If I steal your car it's not the worst thing in the world, but you no longer have a car, and I did something wrong, and I deserve to get punished for my wrongdoing.
The social wrong is that we too often allow rule breaking to slide. The more rules we allow to be broken the closer to social anarchy we get. I know it seems extreme - to think that allowing a film fest winner to cheat could lead to anarchy, and maybe it is, but it's not completely unbelievable.
I've had the opportunity to work with an uncle roofing houses. Once we worked on a house that had been neglected for years. It had extensive water damage and almost the entire structure of the roof and attic had to be replaced. My uncle and I were ripping out studs one hot summer afternoon, and he stated, "Just think, this all started with a small leak that wasn't fixed."
I say that to say this, if we allow a rule to be broken, even a small one, there is a possibility - maybe not a probability, but a possibility nonetheless - that one day we might have to tear down society to fix the problem. I may be seeing things a little to "B&W" here, but it's just the way I see it.
Junior may be a nice guy, but he's a lawbreaker. It's very simple. If I knew of this going on, I'd have to say that I'd report it.
Maybe that's why no one ever tells me anything.
Poke
LOGAN L Productions said:
All of this is true. I, personally, would have thought to myself, "Self, next time make your movie so good that no one can beat you." I'm not saying MrC's movie ain't good, I'm just agreeing that it might not be the best use of energy to try and get the "Cheater" kicked out of the competition.
LOGAN L Productions said:
No, but it's still fundamentally wrong. That's my argument in a nutshell. MrC has a right to do what he did cause the other guy did something wrong. If I steal your car it's not the worst thing in the world, but you no longer have a car, and I did something wrong, and I deserve to get punished for my wrongdoing.
LOGAN L Productions said:
The social wrong is that we too often allow rule breaking to slide. The more rules we allow to be broken the closer to social anarchy we get. I know it seems extreme - to think that allowing a film fest winner to cheat could lead to anarchy, and maybe it is, but it's not completely unbelievable.
I've had the opportunity to work with an uncle roofing houses. Once we worked on a house that had been neglected for years. It had extensive water damage and almost the entire structure of the roof and attic had to be replaced. My uncle and I were ripping out studs one hot summer afternoon, and he stated, "Just think, this all started with a small leak that wasn't fixed."
I say that to say this, if we allow a rule to be broken, even a small one, there is a possibility - maybe not a probability, but a possibility nonetheless - that one day we might have to tear down society to fix the problem. I may be seeing things a little to "B&W" here, but it's just the way I see it.
LOGAN L Productions said:
Junior may be a nice guy, but he's a lawbreaker. It's very simple. If I knew of this going on, I'd have to say that I'd report it.
Maybe that's why no one ever tells me anything.
Poke
Good point. On the other end of the spectrum, we must keep a balance of rebelious attitude in order to keep authority in check (i.e. illegal gay marriages, or whatever) and as uncorrupted as possible. That doesn't apply very well here, but I just decided to point that out too.pokewowplayer1 said:
Maybe.pokewowplayer1 said:
I would expect that attitude from most people, but a Texan?! Huh. Well, many of your hispanic friends' (if you have any) parents or grandparents might be illegal, you never know. You'd be surprised how rampant that is. Personally, I think it's been good for Texas in many ways. Mexicans probably built your house, etc. that's a different argument though...and I don't condone it...I feel that if it's a big issue, Mexican Americans need to vote to change the law instead of Mexicans breaking the law. G. Bush is trying to solve it, but I think he's going the wrong route...that's not the point though. We just think differently. I hold myself to a higher standard than other people around me. I try to be impathetic toward people, and as nice as possible, until things get serious...People like you and chicago are more...uptight (not always a bad thing, but sometimes it can be).
LOGAN L Productions said:
I have many Hispanic friends, I work at a Univision station in Austin. The reason I feel the way I do has nothing to with race, though. It has everything to do with upholding the law and by deferrement society. That law is changing, and I welcome that, but right now it is the law. Let me also say that most legal immigrants I work with agree with me. They put forth the effort to become legal, why shouldn't Junior?
Dude, how come someone who is trying to be "as nice as possible" is calling me uptight? Uptight is someone who can never relax. I can relax, but letting people cheat and get the better of me isn't my definition of relaxing.
See, Aspen Shorts Fest, does it make a difference ... no.
Poke
1. You are uptight, wether you take that as an insult or not. You're a stickler for the rules...a lot of people would be proud to be called that. That wasn't necessarily derogatory. I wasn't name calling...maybe that's not the best choice of words, but whatever. You've warned me before on this site about stuff that wasn't even bad at all. I just criticized someones movie, constructively too (the point of this site). I said one negative thing and you warned me. The person I criticized even agreed with me, and knew I wasn't being mean spirited.
2. I was in no way implying that you are racist at all! It's not about race, it's about immigration. I agree with you that it's obviously better and smarter to follow the law. I agree completely. I was just saying that I would never turn Junior in. It was an example of my outlook. I know that many illegals are criminals, and stuff. There is all sorts of things that go into the complex subject. I'm just saying that I would never ring the bell on my friend's cousin. That's all I'm saying!
3. Would you turn a pothead in to the police? If not, what's the difference? It's illegal.
Yes. It does matter. This is a pretty big festival, but not anything special. I was expecting NY festival, LA festival, Hollywood Festival, etc. I know it doesn't matter to you, but everything is not black and white with me okay.
I've tried to leave this thread alone like three times, I've said my piece...please don't ask me any more questions unless you've carefully read what I've already typed. Thanks. Later.
2. I was in no way implying that you are racist at all! It's not about race, it's about immigration. I agree with you that it's obviously better and smarter to follow the law. I agree completely. I was just saying that I would never turn Junior in. It was an example of my outlook. I know that many illegals are criminals, and stuff. There is all sorts of things that go into the complex subject. I'm just saying that I would never ring the bell on my friend's cousin. That's all I'm saying!
3. Would you turn a pothead in to the police? If not, what's the difference? It's illegal.
Yes. It does matter. This is a pretty big festival, but not anything special. I was expecting NY festival, LA festival, Hollywood Festival, etc. I know it doesn't matter to you, but everything is not black and white with me okay.
I've tried to leave this thread alone like three times, I've said my piece...please don't ask me any more questions unless you've carefully read what I've already typed. Thanks. Later.
"Stickler for the Rules" is a better term than uptight. Yes I follow the rules and I want everyone else to as well. Look up "uptight", that's not the definition.
When you critiqued Shades of Black, I found your review to be ... how do I put this ... poorly worded, in that instead of saying here's what I didn't like, you used phrases like ...
C'mon, some of those are a bit harsh to be considered "constructive". It's been a while since school for me, but I can't ever remember a Teacher asking, "Where the hell is ... ?" Sure you said that it wasn't mean spirited, but someone famous once said, "Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken."
All I was saying is there's a better way to critique other's work. I went on to say ...
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And as a final note on this, I don't think it's very constructive to bring a two month old forgotten issue.
I know you weren't saying I was racist, I was just making the point known to everyone.
Also, I would turn in a pot smoker, I think people who break rules go into it knowing the consequences, so they shouldn't be surprised when the consequence part comes around.
And dude, if you wanna leave it alone you can. Just don't respond. You'll notice I didn't ask any questions.
Poke
When you critiqued Shades of Black, I found your review to be ... how do I put this ... poorly worded, in that instead of saying here's what I didn't like, you used phrases like ...
LOGAN L Productions said:
C'mon, some of those are a bit harsh to be considered "constructive". It's been a while since school for me, but I can't ever remember a Teacher asking, "Where the hell is ... ?" Sure you said that it wasn't mean spirited, but someone famous once said, "Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken."
All I was saying is there's a better way to critique other's work. I went on to say ...
pokewowplayer1 said:
&
pokewowplayer1 said:
And as a final note on this, I don't think it's very constructive to bring a two month old forgotten issue.
I know you weren't saying I was racist, I was just making the point known to everyone.
Also, I would turn in a pot smoker, I think people who break rules go into it knowing the consequences, so they shouldn't be surprised when the consequence part comes around.
And dude, if you wanna leave it alone you can. Just don't respond. You'll notice I didn't ask any questions.
Poke
I'm assuming you're either in college or graduated, but would you report an underage drinker? It's the same concept.
I'm sure people have already said this before (too lazy to read the whole thread ) but I see absolutely no point in pirating music. It's so much better and so much more creative to write or get writen a new piece of music that suits the nature of your film. If you've made a film yourself why not get personal music to go with it. I detest using other people's music. Unless you're hollywood and like universal have a studio, and a record label and all you're out to do is make money - make your own! Originality is the key to art. Plus, think of all those poor up and coming composers who are just itching to make music for you! Respect the Talent!
) but I see absolutely no point in pirating music. It's so much better and so much more creative to write or get writen a new piece of music that suits the nature of your film. If you've made a film yourself why not get personal music to go with it. I detest using other people's music. Unless you're hollywood and like universal have a studio, and a record label and all you're out to do is make money - make your own! Originality is the key to art. Plus, think of all those poor up and coming composers who are just itching to make music for you! Respect the Talent!LOGAN L Productions said:
Not in college, not a graduate (dropped out when I realized I knew everything they were trying to teach me ... plus I was put on probation for not going to class ... I already knew it, why go to class?). I'm 26, and I am a professional videojournalist.
I should actually take a step back and say that I wouldn't necessarily report an illegal alien, a pot smoker, or an underage drinker in every situation. Like I said before, I wouldn't have done what MrC did, but he had a right to do what he did (just like I don't have to yell at the idiots at Burger King for getting my order wrong, but I have a right to). If I am presented with the opportunity to report an illegal alien, potsmoker, or underage drinker, it wouldn't be a knee jerk reaction, it would definitely depend on the situation.
Shot Renegade said:
Absolutely, the problem/the wrong/the crime isn't MrC being a "narc", it's the other dude stealing music when he could've gotten much more original/creative/artistic music from a number of members on this site.
Poke
Amen Brother!
That was my whole point in wanting to know what movies, what festival, etc.pokewowplayer1 said:
MrChicago certainly has the right to do that stuff, I just didn't see it as the best choice he could make.
I DO think it's crappy that a guy broke festival rules and then won first place, but I'm not against pirating music in general. There are many reasons for this. The main ones are: Pirating music can actually HELP an up and coming band, and It really doesn't hurt an established artist who already has plenty of money. Now, if you are making money using illegal music; I am completely against that, and think that it is not right and should be stopped...it's like stealing someone's bike or something and pawning it...but if said movie was made just for kicks, and makes no revenue for the filmmaker, I think it is a good thing, it should be legal, and in certain cases, it actually is legal. I had this opinion before I went to this site, but it pretty much shows how I feel: http://downhillbattle.com.
The big record companies have been hoarding the music they own (in some cases), and if the potential for great art is there, (and said artist is willing to be creative for free) I say break the law...not for profit, but for principle. And...in this case...the supreme court has ruled that this is a case by case issue, and that if a record company want's to sue, it must be one person, one case at a time. If you disagree with me, that's fine. I just wanted to show you that there are arguments for both sides.
BTW: I personally don't use pirated music, just because it's not really my style. I usually make my own music, use a friend's music, or find free music. (of course, I would like to have the potential to make money from my films, hehe)
I'm going to write a screenplay about a gay illegal alien who downloads pirated music to sell, to pay for his pot-smoking habit that started when his film about underage drinking didn't win first prize at a film festival that conspired with the RIAA to make sure musicians don't get paid for their work.
So far so good. 8)
So far so good. 8)
LOGAN L Productions said:
Well why didn't you say so? Or did you?
LOGAN L Productions said:
So, we're in agreement then?
Zensteve said:
Starring LOGAN L as the Acee Ellyou, and Poke as Fatty McFatpantserton!
Poke