Pirated Music in Festivals

Pick Your Battles... That's good advice Logan. I'm not sure what my course of action will be, but I have been getting a lot of positive emails.

Here are a couple of things that were pointed out to me that I had never even thought about.

- Copyright infringement raises the rates of everyones E&O insurance.

- For every film that is allwed to break the rules and gets into a festival means that one honest filmmaker's film did not get in.

Everyone (except those using stolen music) will benefit if the festivals stop turning a blind eye.
 
Zen,

As soon as I get resolution (one way or the other) I will write an article and put it onto the film's website.

I'll put a link here.
 
This string has really reminded me why I hate the whole festival and competition circuit.

I'm sure everyone on this site, has got at least a few bad festival experience stories, where good films lost out to bad films etc. etc.

There has been a lot of good advice here about things you could do about this. However, in my experience, the best revenge is to take the energy that you might put into getting justice and put it into making films. These kinds of issues seem huge, because they are about playing fair, but in the greater scheme of things they just end up taking up time that could be spent writing, planning or filming.
 
LOGAN L Productions said:
WHAT FESTIVAL WAS IT? WHO USED STOLEN MUSIC? WHO ARE YOU? WHAT MOVIES WERE INVOLVED?
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Logan, can you please explain to me how this stuff even matters? I mean, sure it seems like MrChicago has got a case of Sour Grapes, but he has a legitimate gripe. The other filmmaker broke the law and got away with it; after the authorities were notified, they just shrugged their shoulders and kept on eating their donuts. MrChicago is just covering his ass when he doesn't name names; there's nothing wrong with that, it could save him a lot of money down the road.

Poke
 
First of all, let me just say that the words "Nark" and "Taddle Tell" have been trying to make their way on to my posts, but I restrained myself until now. Maybe these words will make you think about what you're doing differently.

..I don't see how it's bad if he exposes the names...and it matters because It's a case by case thing, and I just wanted to see what he lost to. Was it a Beatles music video or is there just a smidgen of illegal music? Is his movie actually better than the other one, or does that even matter to him? Is the festival ACTUALLY oscar qualifying (if the academy doesn't vote for a movie, I'm not so sure how I feel about it being nominated in the most prestigious awards ceremony..), etc. etc. I suspect chicago exaggerated things, and I can never know if he really did...I'm guessing it's a situation where the honorable thing to do would be to have talked to the winner about it, or leave it go. But my arguments might be more valid if the EXACT situation was presented to me...or maybe mrchicago has a legitimate argument that can only be shown by showing his movie and the fest, etc.

Unless he's actually suing the other guy or something (which would make me lose faith in humanity), I don't understand how or why he can't tell us what he's talking about.

He wanted our opinion, but without telling us EXACTLY what happened to him...I think he just wanted to whine to someone about it.

...Sorry about being so mean...I was going to stop, but Poke asked me a question...and that's how I truly feel.
 
Logan,

There are lots of Oscar qualifying festivals. I'm not even sure how it works. But normally a film has to show in an Orange county theater for 7 consecutive days to eligable for a nomination (or something like that). But if you win an Oscar qualifying festival you are eligable to be nominated (I guess). I really don't know how it works. Can someone that knows more please post how it works?

I only mentioned that it was an Oscar qualifying festival to let you know that it's not some little no name festival.

I know that there's a snowball's chance of getting a nomination with the way the Hollywood Oscar politics work, so I've never looked into that aspect. But I'm sure that other's here have and can explain the process.
 
BTW, Logan, feel free to use the words "narc" or "tattler". I think these forums are for frank and open discussions. If you feel that those are the best words... use em.

I've made this same post on a couple of other boards and have been called a lot worse. One guy even threatened to track me down and "slit my throat".
 
mrchicago said:
But if you win an Oscar qualifying festival you are eligable to be nominated.
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I misunderstood. I thought the winner would be nominated or something...that would be stupid, hehe.

I say "Nark" for this reason:
If your friend (or coleague, or even aquaintance) does or sells drugs, are you just going to turn him in to the police? No. Any respectable person who feels that their fellow human is doing himself or others harm would talk to that person about it. Try to make them see your point of view. Who knows, they might even agree with you.

If they don't care and want to continue what they do, fine.

If they don't care and want to continue what they do AND you still don't feel right about it...you form an intervention, and get the junkie in rehab. But you only turn him into the authorities as a last resort!!

You saw something bad going on and you just "narked" on your fellow filmmaker (who probably has different moral values than you). You just (in my opinion) sold him out. The fact that you won second place to him makes it worse...and makes you look like a jealous fool.

I know you don't see this as a victimless crime, but honestly...no one was truly hurt...so use your energy to make more art, man. Be cool.
 
Logan, I don't think we are that far off from agreeing.

Would I turn in a friend because he smokes weed? No.

Would I drag my son into rehab if he's addicted to coke? Yes.
Would I drag a stranger into rehab if he's addicted to coke? No.

If I drove past a crack house on the other side of town would I try shut it down? No.

If a crack house opened across the street from my house would I try to get it shut down? Yes.

My point is that people only champion causes that directly affect them. I'm no different. Do you think Christopher Reeves would be going before Congress trying to get more money for spinal research if he didn't break his spine? He feels it's a just cause and it promotes his agenda.

I did approach the other filmmaker and confronted him about his use of illegal music. He told me to find someone who cares? So I took that as his permission to find people that care.

I think here is where we disagree:

We don't live in a vaccuum. This is not a victimless crime. If 10 entries get into a shorts festival and 5 have illegal music, that means that 5 honest filmmakers did not get in and their "submission fees" were basically stolen. Then the illegal filmmaker collects prize money (or services or whatever) if they win. It's about a victemless crime as insider trading.
 
Logan, do you have some reason for attacking MrChicago like this? I mean it's obvious the other guy did something wrong, what is the problem if MrChicago tries to see wrong righted? Are you the other guy?

And the specifics DO NOT matter one bit for our purposes. All we need to know is that we have a filmmaker who wants to know how to handle a general situation - a competitor breaking the rules to win. If an Olympic athlete is discovered to be taking steroids, all of their medals would be stripped. What sport the medals were for have nothing to do with the fact that they were cheating and deserve to suffer the consequences.

Poke

PS This topic has now been deemed sticky.
 
Poke: My reasons for hostility are in my other posts, and this isn't the friggin' Olympics. And if it was, the players wouldn't turn each other in. What I was saying is: different situations call for different actions. For all I know, an actor whistled a pop song in the movie. Is that worth losing 1st? (I know, you'll probably say yes)

mrchicago: I said you should talk to the other guy many posts ago...why did you just now say that you already did?
 
mrchicago said:
My point is that people only champion causes that directly affect them. I'm no different. Do you think Christopher Reeves would be going before Congress trying to get more money for spinal research if he didn't break his spine? He feels it's a just cause and it promotes his agenda.
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Spinal research and getting someone in trouble are two completely different things.
 
"Spinal research and getting someone in trouble are two completely different things."
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I saw that one coming. But "spinal research" and "copyright infringment" are both causes.

I'm not getting anyone in trouble. They did that to themselves by using stolen music in a film festival. If I testify as a witness to a murder, I'm not the one is getting the killer in trouble. He did it to himself.

Can we agree that a film full of illegal music should have never been allowed to show at a film festival?
 
Actually, no. Not always. There are some festivals that openly allow films with illegal music. I think this is great, because it allows kids, and people with no resources have fun being in festivals. (May I ask how you feel about that?)

In a case where it is against the festival rules...you're right that they shouldn't have broken the rules, but I don't think it's a big enough deal to worry about. I still think that you should have let it go, but by now I'm sick of saying it, and you're sick of hearing it. It shouldn't have happened, but it did.

BTW Stop making these outrageous comparisons (Murder to copyright infringement). I know the point you're making, but geez. ;)
 
Okay, so it's okay to snitch for murder or rape?

What about armed robbery?

Burglary?

Purse snatching?

Corporate Embezzling?

Check Fraud?

Shop Lifting?

Where is the line when it comes to crime? At what point does one become a snitch?
 
Seriously though, you know how I feel. It's up to you now. I can't make the decision for you (nor can I sway you, apparently). Just do what you do, but remember not to take life too serious, man. Later.
 
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