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Paying a sound guy for half a day??
- Thread starter dr stilly
- Start date
When dealing with people who do this for a living you have to remember that they look at it quite differently; this is their business and their paycheck. Keep in mind that you are asking him/her to give up a potential half days pay. The odds of them finding another half day that fits around your shooting schedule is very remote. Some of the guys that I know will settle for a 3/4 day rate for five hours or less.
It is fairly standard to get the full daily rental rate. Keep in mind that their expenses (gas, tolls, etc.) remain the same, no matter how long the day.
It is fairly standard to get the full daily rental rate. Keep in mind that their expenses (gas, tolls, etc.) remain the same, no matter how long the day.
A half day rate isn't 50% anyway. If your day rate is $500, your half day should be around $350. Like Alcove said, he can't pick up the other half day somewhere else. Yes, it's less working hours for him, but it's still his salary.
Many audio guys and camera ops and others will gladly work for a half day though too. If you can find someone else that's competent that will then go for it, if you can't then why ask here? You'll have to pay what you negotiate regardless and if it's a full day for him then it's a full day.
Many audio guys and camera ops and others will gladly work for a half day though too. If you can find someone else that's competent that will then go for it, if you can't then why ask here? You'll have to pay what you negotiate regardless and if it's a full day for him then it's a full day.
That's not being bent over a barrel.
If he has a half-day booked, he's almost certainly going to be unable to book the other half. Even on the long odds that he did, what happens if your shoot runs longer than anticipated and your sound-guy has to leave on the spot to make it to his other gig? Now that's going to leave you over a barrel.
Half day labor is usually at a premium - 60 to 70% of the full day rate. Kit/box fees can be at the full rate but may be negotiable. However, try renting gear from a rental company for half day at a half day rate. Most won't do it. This is why your producer side needs to add 20% to the budget to cover extra costs. Also, you need to know or negotiate all terms and conditions (deal memos) before you hire your cast and crew so situations like this don't occur.
And Alcove Audio is correct. Producers wrangle Directors when Directors attempt to go over budget.
And Alcove Audio is correct. Producers wrangle Directors when Directors attempt to go over budget.
Nope, that's your producers mind; your directors mind doesn't give a damn.
Seriously, it's the other way around. The producer splashes out while I reign it in...odd huh. Not so much, there is a strict budget and I try to keep within it. I forgot to mention this is a replacement sound guy, our guy pulled out on this day last minute so this guy has been booked two days before the job so this is why I know his schedule is free and why I feel he had us over a barrel...coz he kinda did.
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The whole point is potential work. The reason most people don't hire out half-day rates, or do so at 85-90% of their full day rate is because whilst you may only have them for 'half a day', it means they cannot book themselves out for the full day - so if they were to book out at half their rate, they're essentially losing half the money, even though they're still working the day.
He can't book himself the other half of the day, and he cant take a full day's work booking because he's already booked you in, so you get charged at almost full rate. 95% of people I know work the same way.
But if he takes your half day, then he has to say no to any potential full day, or worse, multiple day gigs that conflict with the schedule.
Or basically what Jax said.
Half day is standard practice. When you initially booked him, there should have been some kind of discussion if his rate includes equipment or if you need just the mixer. The last shoot I worked on we paid $650USD per day for the audio engineer and $250p/d for his equipment rental. That included a few extras so, yes he is correct, but it sounds like he's overpricing the gear.
That's because it's not your time, and you don't value it like he does. Since he wasn't booked, maybe he had other plans - and it's only worth canceling them for a full day's pay. People are more than just hours & rates.
As for extortion, did he show up and then refuse to hit record until you paid him for the full day? That's the only way I could see this qualify as 'extortion', and even then only if he initially agreed to do it for less.
You did discuss what you would be paying him when you hired him, right? If you weren't happy with it why didn't you look for someone else? If no one else was available then honestly you're lucky you found him on such short notice - and it's not extortion to charge whatever he wants, it's simply supply and demand.
And that’s an excellent example of why you feel you were being extorted.
You look at the job through your personal prism - nothing terrible about
that. But the sound guy is looking at the job through hs personal prism.
As you can see from the replies here - it is just you. Others do not feel the
way you do. Perhaps it wasn’t extortion. Perhaps it is a more benign,
personal way of doing business. It seems counterproductive for you to
hope that everyone you deal with has your personal way of doing business.
I’m a freelancer. It’s how I earn my living so I can relate to the freelance
you hired. I’m also a producer and a director so I see that side. Perhaps if
you were a working freelancer in some field you could relate more to the
audio guys situation.
You are not wrong to have your method of working and being paid. I do
feel you are wrong in expecting others to also hold your, personal method
of working and getting paid. It wasn’t cheek to charge they way he charged.
But it is a bit cheeky to be pretty certain he had nothing booked. As
ItDonnedOnMe said, perhaps since he didn’t have a gig booked he had personal
plans. Perhaps he decided that a full days pay was worth breaking his plans
but half a day's pay wasn't.
I can tell you that I, as a freelancer, do not offer a half day rate. I ask for
my full day rate up to 12 hours. I will (and have) worked over my agreed
upon hours without charging more but to me a “day” is when I agree to
show up and I show up. If that “day” is 2 hours, 6 hours or 12 hours I get
my rate. It seem this audio guy works the way many professional freelances
work.
You as a director (or producer) can see that as unreasonable and hire someone
else. I feel it does you no good to hold poor feeling about those freelancers
who do not offer a half-day rate just because you would.
I am not unsympathetic to your needs to keep costs down. I, too, am a director
who often hires people. I hope you take this as farthing your knowledge and
understanding of the freelancers working in this industry and not continue to
feel you were being extorted. Respect is key. Respect the way the other person
does business even if your way is different. Sometimes people get bogged down
in the "but that's just me" way of thinking. Step out of "but that's just me"
and consider the other person. If that person isn't a good fit, move on to one
who is, but maintain respect for the person who isn't you.
I understand the freelancer as I am one and have been for many years and have always worked to the ethics I stated. I charge what I feel I'm deserved and I guess I expect the same attitude. Not damning those who are strict with their rates, you probably have more doolar than myself, salute! Don't get me wrong, if a corporate job came my way I'll charge top dollar for less hours, but if a little no-budget film company asked for my service for three hours I just wouldn't feel right charging hundreds of pounds. I don't want to change this outlook and I want to work with those who share it. What are we without our values.
I understand what YOU would do. I hope you don't think that those of us
who don't feel exactly as you do have lower "values". You sure make it
seem that way.
If you will ONLY work with people who share your specific outlook, I also
respect that.
who don't feel exactly as you do have lower "values". You sure make it
seem that way.
If you will ONLY work with people who share your specific outlook, I also
respect that.
I get what you're saying, but I'm still not clear - didn't you ask this guy up front what it would cost you to hire him? It seems like if you did then there wouldn't be an issue - he tells you his day rate, and that it's the same whether half or full day, and you say 'thanks, but no thanks' because he doesn't share your outlook on what's appropriate to charge for the time you need him. Done, simple as that - and you just have to keep looking until you find someone you want to work with.
And as far as what you feel right about charging - you're still only looking at this from your own perspective. If he's good at what he does then he's probably got many 'little no-budget film companies' who would like him to come work on their gigs. He can't take them all without effectively lowering his rate across the board. Maybe the fact that he wasn't willing to charge you less is a reflection of what he thinks about your particular project - a project that may be everything to you but to him is just another low-budget indie film competing for his time. If it's not something that he particularly cares about or is invested in (which I assume to be the case if you were calling him for the first time a couple days before you needed him) then how is it any different than a corporate gig? In either case he's just a hired gun being paid for his skills, equipment and time, and those aren't worth less just because you have a lower budget.
A lot of people don't seem to get this, but asking people to contribute time or resources to your indie project is no different than asking them to invest money in it. If you don't have something unique and worthwhile to offer in exchange for what they contribute then you shouldn't be surprised if they won't contribute. Your project may seem very special and unique to you - at least it should, since it is your project - but it's just one of a million special, unique projects out there. It's absurd to expect others to feel the same way about the project that you do unless you're involving them at some significant level in it so that it becomes their project as well.